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  • Communicating before marriage by consent (need help)

    I need help! I've been searching everywhere..

    Is one allowed to talk to a girl with the intention of marriage, on the internet.
    I assume not, but what if she has parental consent to talk to the potential spouse.
    And if so, how about talking on the phone by consent of the parents.

    JazakAllah Khayran

  • #2
    Re: Communicating before marriage by consent (need help)

    You have to be willing for your "conversation" to be listened in or supervised by your walis.

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: Communicating before marriage by consent (need help)

      :salams

      The girl's parents (her wali) should be aware that she is talking to you about marriage. :insha:
      Secure few moments, everyday, to reflect upon the innumerable blessings of Allah and thank Him for bestowing them upon you.

      "A person who is blessed with the ability to be grateful, shall never be deprived of barakah and increase in blessings."
      - Rasulullah (صلی اللہ علیہ وسلم)‎

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: Communicating before marriage by consent (need help)

        if by email the best thing to do is cc her wali in or if by messenger etc, try and make sure you are in public place where other people can read and same for her

        Recipes for all the family :inlove:
        (and you thought I was a lazy feminazi which can't cook?)

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: Communicating before marriage by consent (need help)

          what about on the phone? 3 way convo?

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: Communicating before marriage by consent (need help)

            Originally posted by .mirror. View Post
            :salams

            The girl's parents (her wali) should be aware that she is talking to you about marriage. :insha:
            :wswrwb:

            doesnt matter if the wali is "aware" or not. its not permissible for opposite genders to be talking in private.
            "O you who believe! Stand out firmly for justice, as witnesses to Allah, even as against yourselves, or your parents, or your kin, and whether it be (against) rich or poor: for Allah can best protect both. Follow not the lusts (of your hearts), lest you swerve, and if you distort (justice) or decline to do justice, verily Allah is well-acquainted with all that you do." [An-Nisa 4:135]

            The Prophet :saw: said:

            "Whosoever leaves off obedience and separates from the Jamaa'ah and dies, he dies a death of jaahiliyyah. Whoever fights under the banner of the blind, becoming angry for 'asabiyyah (nationalism/tribalism/partisanship) or calling to 'asabiyyah, or assisting 'asabiyyah, then dies, he dies a death of jaahiliyyah."

            muslim

            Narrated 'Abdullah:

            The Prophet, said, "Abusing a Muslim is Fusuq (evil doing) and killing him is Kufr (disbelief)." sahih bukhari


            "Creeping upon you is the diseases of those people before you: envy and hatred. And hatred is the thing that shaves. I do not say it shaves the hair but it shaves the religion!

            By the One in whose Hand is my soul, you will not enter paradise until you believe, and you will not believe until you love one another. Certainly, let me inform you of that which may establish such things: spread the greetings and peace among yourselves."

            [Recorded by Imam Ahmad and Al-Tirmidhi]

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: Communicating before marriage by consent (need help)

              Correspondence between the sexes is not permissible, because that provokes temptation and usually results in evil. If a man corresponds with a non-mahram woman in letters that are not seen by anyone else, that leads to many evils. Islam forbids a woman to be alone with a man who is not her mahram because of the fitnah (temptation) and bad things that result from that, such as attachment and the desire to look and touch, etc. All of this results from the man talking to the woman in these private letters or conversations, especially if they are young and at an age when desire is strong.

              Shaykh Ibn Jibreen (may Allaah preserve him) was asked: What is the ruling on correspondence between young men and young women, if this correspondence is free from immorality, love and desire?

              He replied: It is not permissible for any person to correspond with a woman who is not his mahram, because of the temptation involved in that. The person may think that there is no temptation, but the shaytaan will keep trying until he tempts him through her, and tempts her through him. The Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) told the one who hears of the Dajjaal to keep away from him, and he said that a man may come to him as a believer but the Dajjaal will keep trying until he tempts him and confuses him.

              There is a great deal of temptation and danger in correspondence between young men and women which means that it has to be avoided, even though the questioner says that there was no love or desire involved.
              End quote from Fataawa al-Mar’ah, compiled by Muhammad al-Musnid, p. 96.

              The woman is forbidden to speak softly to one who is not permissible for her, as Allaah says (interpretation of the meaning):

              “be not soft in speech, lest he in whose heart is a disease (of hypocrisy, or evil desire for adultery) should be moved with desire, but speak in an honourable manner”

              [al-Ahzaab 33:32]

              And it is haraam for a man to enjoy listening to the speech or voice of a non-mahram woman.

              islam-qa
              "O you who believe! Stand out firmly for justice, as witnesses to Allah, even as against yourselves, or your parents, or your kin, and whether it be (against) rich or poor: for Allah can best protect both. Follow not the lusts (of your hearts), lest you swerve, and if you distort (justice) or decline to do justice, verily Allah is well-acquainted with all that you do." [An-Nisa 4:135]

              The Prophet :saw: said:

              "Whosoever leaves off obedience and separates from the Jamaa'ah and dies, he dies a death of jaahiliyyah. Whoever fights under the banner of the blind, becoming angry for 'asabiyyah (nationalism/tribalism/partisanship) or calling to 'asabiyyah, or assisting 'asabiyyah, then dies, he dies a death of jaahiliyyah."

              muslim

              Narrated 'Abdullah:

              The Prophet, said, "Abusing a Muslim is Fusuq (evil doing) and killing him is Kufr (disbelief)." sahih bukhari


              "Creeping upon you is the diseases of those people before you: envy and hatred. And hatred is the thing that shaves. I do not say it shaves the hair but it shaves the religion!

              By the One in whose Hand is my soul, you will not enter paradise until you believe, and you will not believe until you love one another. Certainly, let me inform you of that which may establish such things: spread the greetings and peace among yourselves."

              [Recorded by Imam Ahmad and Al-Tirmidhi]

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: Communicating before marriage by consent (need help)

                How private does it have to be? I'm sure they can talk on the phone with the permission of the parent and him being aware of i, but not actually listening in.
                Secure few moments, everyday, to reflect upon the innumerable blessings of Allah and thank Him for bestowing them upon you.

                "A person who is blessed with the ability to be grateful, shall never be deprived of barakah and increase in blessings."
                - Rasulullah (صلی اللہ علیہ وسلم)‎

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: Communicating before marriage by consent (need help)

                  Praise be to Allaah.
                  It is not permissible except in a case where both parties trust one another and where the parents agree to the marriage and have no objections. In this case it is acceptable for them to speak to one another in a normal manner, discussing matters of life that concern them. But if they know that their parents do not agree to that, then it is not permissible for them to speak to one another in this case.

                  Shaykh ‘Abd-Allaah ibn Jibreen.

                  The fiancée is still a non-mahram woman and speaking to her is still speaking to a non-mahram woman, so it must be done properly and only as much as is necessary, such as agreeing on specific matters to do with after they get married. Attention must also be paid to the following:

                  1 – It must be done with the agreement of the woman’s guardian and with no objection on his part to the marriage.

                  2 – The talk should not involve anything that may provoke desire or cause temptation.

                  3 – There should be no other way of telling her what he wants to say, such as through his sister or her brother, or by letter.

                  4 – It should not go beyond what is essential.

                  And Allaah is the Source of strength.

                  Ruling on speaking to one’s fiancée
                  Secure few moments, everyday, to reflect upon the innumerable blessings of Allah and thank Him for bestowing them upon you.

                  "A person who is blessed with the ability to be grateful, shall never be deprived of barakah and increase in blessings."
                  - Rasulullah (صلی اللہ علیہ وسلم)‎

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: Communicating before marriage by consent (need help)

                    communicating before marriage http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cvhg3PVeOkY
                    "O you who believe! Stand out firmly for justice, as witnesses to Allah, even as against yourselves, or your parents, or your kin, and whether it be (against) rich or poor: for Allah can best protect both. Follow not the lusts (of your hearts), lest you swerve, and if you distort (justice) or decline to do justice, verily Allah is well-acquainted with all that you do." [An-Nisa 4:135]

                    The Prophet :saw: said:

                    "Whosoever leaves off obedience and separates from the Jamaa'ah and dies, he dies a death of jaahiliyyah. Whoever fights under the banner of the blind, becoming angry for 'asabiyyah (nationalism/tribalism/partisanship) or calling to 'asabiyyah, or assisting 'asabiyyah, then dies, he dies a death of jaahiliyyah."

                    muslim

                    Narrated 'Abdullah:

                    The Prophet, said, "Abusing a Muslim is Fusuq (evil doing) and killing him is Kufr (disbelief)." sahih bukhari


                    "Creeping upon you is the diseases of those people before you: envy and hatred. And hatred is the thing that shaves. I do not say it shaves the hair but it shaves the religion!

                    By the One in whose Hand is my soul, you will not enter paradise until you believe, and you will not believe until you love one another. Certainly, let me inform you of that which may establish such things: spread the greetings and peace among yourselves."

                    [Recorded by Imam Ahmad and Al-Tirmidhi]

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: Communicating before marriage by consent (need help)

                      Scholars at IslamQA allow it with certain conditions:

                      Shaykh Saalih al-Fawzaan said, in his answer on the ruling about young men speaking to young women on the telephone: “It is not permissible for young men to speak to young women because of the fitnah involved, unless the girl is engaged to the man who is talking to her, and they talk only about matters pertaining to their engagement; but it is preferable and safer for him to speak to her guardian about that.” (al-Muntaqa min Fataawa al-Shaykh Saalih al-Fawzaan, 3/163, 164).
                      Secure few moments, everyday, to reflect upon the innumerable blessings of Allah and thank Him for bestowing them upon you.

                      "A person who is blessed with the ability to be grateful, shall never be deprived of barakah and increase in blessings."
                      - Rasulullah (صلی اللہ علیہ وسلم)‎

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: Communicating before marriage by consent (need help)

                        parents permission or so called "engagment" or not, if a man and a woman are talking alone, shaitan is the third amongst them. if u have agreed to marry a woman then theres nothing more to talk about.

                        a non mahram woman is a non mahram woman even if u are thinking of marrying her, shes no different to any other non mahram woman. makes it worse if u want to marry her because the desire for her is there.
                        "O you who believe! Stand out firmly for justice, as witnesses to Allah, even as against yourselves, or your parents, or your kin, and whether it be (against) rich or poor: for Allah can best protect both. Follow not the lusts (of your hearts), lest you swerve, and if you distort (justice) or decline to do justice, verily Allah is well-acquainted with all that you do." [An-Nisa 4:135]

                        The Prophet :saw: said:

                        "Whosoever leaves off obedience and separates from the Jamaa'ah and dies, he dies a death of jaahiliyyah. Whoever fights under the banner of the blind, becoming angry for 'asabiyyah (nationalism/tribalism/partisanship) or calling to 'asabiyyah, or assisting 'asabiyyah, then dies, he dies a death of jaahiliyyah."

                        muslim

                        Narrated 'Abdullah:

                        The Prophet, said, "Abusing a Muslim is Fusuq (evil doing) and killing him is Kufr (disbelief)." sahih bukhari


                        "Creeping upon you is the diseases of those people before you: envy and hatred. And hatred is the thing that shaves. I do not say it shaves the hair but it shaves the religion!

                        By the One in whose Hand is my soul, you will not enter paradise until you believe, and you will not believe until you love one another. Certainly, let me inform you of that which may establish such things: spread the greetings and peace among yourselves."

                        [Recorded by Imam Ahmad and Al-Tirmidhi]

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: Communicating before marriage by consent (need help)

                          The scholars allowed it, though.
                          Secure few moments, everyday, to reflect upon the innumerable blessings of Allah and thank Him for bestowing them upon you.

                          "A person who is blessed with the ability to be grateful, shall never be deprived of barakah and increase in blessings."
                          - Rasulullah (صلی اللہ علیہ وسلم)‎

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: Communicating before marriage by consent (need help)

                            Originally posted by .mirror. View Post
                            The scholars allowed it, though.
                            from your posts that "allow it"

                            Originally posted by .mirror. View Post
                            “ It is not permissible for young men to speak to young women because of the fitnah involved...

                            There should be no other way of telling her what he wants to say, such as through his sister or her brother, or by letter...

                            It should not go beyond what is essential...

                            ...it is preferable and safer for him to speak to her guardian about that.” (Shaykh Saalih al-Fawzaan). [/B]
                            "O you who believe! Stand out firmly for justice, as witnesses to Allah, even as against yourselves, or your parents, or your kin, and whether it be (against) rich or poor: for Allah can best protect both. Follow not the lusts (of your hearts), lest you swerve, and if you distort (justice) or decline to do justice, verily Allah is well-acquainted with all that you do." [An-Nisa 4:135]

                            The Prophet :saw: said:

                            "Whosoever leaves off obedience and separates from the Jamaa'ah and dies, he dies a death of jaahiliyyah. Whoever fights under the banner of the blind, becoming angry for 'asabiyyah (nationalism/tribalism/partisanship) or calling to 'asabiyyah, or assisting 'asabiyyah, then dies, he dies a death of jaahiliyyah."

                            muslim

                            Narrated 'Abdullah:

                            The Prophet, said, "Abusing a Muslim is Fusuq (evil doing) and killing him is Kufr (disbelief)." sahih bukhari


                            "Creeping upon you is the diseases of those people before you: envy and hatred. And hatred is the thing that shaves. I do not say it shaves the hair but it shaves the religion!

                            By the One in whose Hand is my soul, you will not enter paradise until you believe, and you will not believe until you love one another. Certainly, let me inform you of that which may establish such things: spread the greetings and peace among yourselves."

                            [Recorded by Imam Ahmad and Al-Tirmidhi]

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Re: Communicating before marriage by consent (need help)

                              He also said:

                              ...unless the girl is engaged to the man who is talking to her, and they talk only about matters pertaining to their engagement.
                              ...except in a case where both parties trust one another and where the parents agree to the marriage and have no objections. In this case it is acceptable for them to speak to one another in a normal manner, discussing matters of life that concern them.
                              That shows the permissibility.
                              Last edited by .mirror.; 23-04-12, 06:02 AM.
                              Secure few moments, everyday, to reflect upon the innumerable blessings of Allah and thank Him for bestowing them upon you.

                              "A person who is blessed with the ability to be grateful, shall never be deprived of barakah and increase in blessings."
                              - Rasulullah (صلی اللہ علیہ وسلم)‎

                              Comment

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