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  • #76
    Re: Right to know or not?

    Originally posted by kong View Post
    But here's the difficulty in it all.

    You are requested to cover up your sins, as you should and we do not dispute that which comes from the Almighty. However if you conceal your sins and you end up with someone who claims to be completely untouched, but isn't actually, is that not a recipe for disaster.

    I know I wouldn't want to marry a girl who's been touched before, irrespective of whether she's repented or not, I guess many others believe in this too.
    If you read the one of my previous posts this issue is disscussed. You cant lie when it comes to marriage, If someone says I'll only marry you if your a virgin then you are obliged to decline the proposal. So you can't say your a virgin when your not, also when it comes to marriage the ruling on backbiting also changes according to the fatwa I posted.
    Last edited by zakariyya21; 15-03-12, 12:33 PM.

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    • #77
      Re: Right to know or not?

      Originally posted by kong View Post
      But here's the difficulty in it all.

      You are requested to cover up your sins, as you should and we do not dispute that which comes from the Almighty. However if you conceal your sins and you end up with someone who claims to be completely untouched, but isn't actually, is that not a recipe for disaster.

      I know I wouldn't want to marry a girl who's been touched before, irrespective of whether she's repented or not, I guess many others believe in this too.
      when you conceal it, you don't talk about it. You can ask during the meeting if she has always been practicing. If the answer is "no", then make your decision because she might or might not have been touched. Don't ask her directly.

      If you want to marry someone untouched, go ahead. I am not going to slack at you one bit. I completely understand why someone would want to if he./she is untouched also.
      "They are Shuhadaa (witnesses) to the fact that this Deen is greater than life, that values are more important than blood and that principles are more precious than souls" - Sheikh 'Abdullah Azzam

      Lost in Islamic History :inlove:

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      • #78
        Re: Right to know or not?

        Originally posted by samin62 View Post
        when you conceal it, you don't talk about it. You can ask during the meeting if she has always been practicing. If the answer is "no", then make your decision because she might or might not have been touched. Don't ask her directly.

        If you want to marry someone untouched, go ahead. I am not going to slack at you one bit. I completely understand why someone would want to if he./she is untouched also.
        Theres two Opinions on this bro, and both are valid, the one to conceal and the one ie. for the Husband to ask especially if he is in doubt ... It can be asked directly,

        http://www.ummah.com/forum/showthrea...=1#post4613560

        :jkk:
        http://www.ilovepalestine.com/campai...imesinGaza.gif

        "It does not befit the lion to answer the dogs."

        – Imam al-Shafi’i (Rahimahullah)

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        • #79
          Re: Right to know or not?

          Originally posted by aadil77 View Post
          Salam,

          Sis I'd have to see this to believe it, because it would literally throw the value of chastity out the window. Chastity would be meaningless if someone could commit zina repent and then be chaste again. It would literally make fornicators equal to those who struggle all their lives with their nafs till they get married.

          JazakhAllah khair
          barakAllahu feek

          brother, i know what you mean but it is not meaningless, the one who refrains from illegal intercourse when a woman approaches him is one of the 7 mentioned in the hadith who will insha'Allah be under the shade on yawm ul qiyamah.

          Allah knows our struggles, Allah subhanahu wa ta'aala knows our desires, knows what we face and look at the beautiful motivation for one to remain untouched - the shade on yawm ul qiyamah subhan'Allah.

          And at the same time, our Rabb is Most Merciful, Most Forgiving. So know that there is hikmah behind the one who has repented from zina being classified as 'chaste'. Imagine if we believed that the one who has committed the act of zina would be tainted for life, how many muslims would this deter from practising the deen? Allah subhanahu wa ta'aala is so Merciful that He, Jalla wa 'aala accepts all sinners - so long as they repent. If we believed that the one who has commited zina and repented is still unchaste then in my opinion it would prevent people from aiming to excel in the deen, because they may have the attitude that 'oh, i am faasiq, Allah will never accept from me so why should i pray salah?'

          however, by telling people that they can be chaste as long as they repent, it would motivate them to excel in the deen. Imagine knowing that your Rabb will forgive you eveN AFTER you have commited one of the major sins, and not only that but you wont be tainted, wouldnt you feel so much love for Allah and just want to please Allah? Whereas the one who has repented from the sin but told that 'you're still a zani, you will never be chaste' dont you think that they would just continue upon their filthy ways as they know they will never be accepted?

          i do fully understand where you are coming from but Allah subhanahu wa ta'aala has elevated the one who fully refrains from this by offering the shade on yawm ul qiyamah

          w'allahu aalum
          Last edited by sis_on_sunnah; 15-03-12, 04:17 PM.
          http://www.deenulhuq.wordpress.com

          Don't depend on anyone too much in this world because even your own shadow leaves you when you are in darkness ~ibn taymiyyah

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          • #80
            Re: Right to know or not?

            Originally posted by sis_on_sunnah View Post
            And at the same time, our Rabb is Most Merciful, Most Forgiving. So know that there is hikmah behind the one who has repented from zina being classified as 'chaste'.
            Sis if you have any proof for this I'd still like to see it and at the same time I will ask some ulema myself.

            Imagine if we believed that the one who has committed the act of zina would be tainted for life, how many muslims would this deter from practising the deen? Allah subhanahu wa ta'aala is so Merciful that He, Jalla wa 'aala accepts all sinners - so long as they repent. If we believed that the one who has commited zina and repented is still unchaste then in my opinion it would prevent people from aiming to excel in the deen, because they may have the attitude that 'oh, i am faasiq, Allah will never accept from me so why should i pray salah?'
            Sis when someone murders someone they are known as a murderer, is someone rapes someone they are known as a rapist, if someone pervs on a child they are known as a paedophile. Tough luck, people should think 10 times before commiting such heinious sins.

            No doubt Allah will accept them but people have the choice not to.

            If repentance could make you chaste again I don't think half of all muslims would hesitate to commit zina. The not so practising muslims would see no dunya incentive to staying chaste, what would be the point if you end up marrying a fornicator anyway?

            He it is Who sends blessings on you, as do His angels, that He may bring you out from the depths of Darkness into Light: and He is Full of Mercy to the Believers. [Quran {33:43}]
            www.QuranicAudio.com
            www.Quran.com

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            • #81
              Re: Right to know or not?

              Originally posted by aadil77 View Post
              If repentance could make you chaste again I don't think half of all muslims would hesitate to commit zina.
              I doubt it.

              As sinning with the intent to repent later, is repentance that is not accepted by Allah.
              https://sufisticated101.wordpress.com

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              • #82
                Re: Right to know or not?

                Originally posted by LondonGal View Post
                I doubt it.

                As sinning with the intent to repent later, is repentance that is not accepted by Allah.
                Either way it would definately make it harder to resist

                He it is Who sends blessings on you, as do His angels, that He may bring you out from the depths of Darkness into Light: and He is Full of Mercy to the Believers. [Quran {33:43}]
                www.QuranicAudio.com
                www.Quran.com

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                • #83
                  Re: Right to know or not?

                  Originally posted by samin62 View Post
                  when you conceal it, you don't talk about it. You can ask during the meeting if she has always been practicing. If the answer is "no", then make your decision because she might or might not have been touched. Don't ask her directly.

                  If you want to marry someone untouched, go ahead. I am not going to slack at you one bit. I completely understand why someone would want to if he./she is untouched also.
                  some people have not practiced Islam their whole life, that doesnt mean they commited zina ever. You can still have certain principles even if you're not practicing.
                  Last edited by anonymous_mehip; 15-03-12, 08:18 PM.
                  The life of this world is only the enjoyment of deception (a deceiving thing)” (3:185)

                  Avoid excessive laughter and useless arguments as they harden the heart and lead to heedlessness.

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                  • #84
                    Re: Right to know or not?

                    I am going to call a brother I know to get a specific answer to this inshAllah. There are certain elements of hiding your sins vs finding more out about a person that I am unsure of.
                    If you have any questions feel free to PM me!

                    Humililty, Sincerity, and the quest for Truth. There is no purpose in life but to seek the pleasure of Allah.
                    There is a possibility a female might use this account to read something!

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                    • #85
                      Re: Right to know or not?

                      sorry brother i dont know if you take from islam q&a or not and apologies if this has already been posted..

                      got a mail from one of my relatives.The mail was sent to me by mistake.In that she had written about her affair with a boy.She stated that she had crossed all her limits.Now the problem is that no one knows about it and i dont intend telling it to anyone but my grandmother had selected that girl for my brother.I can't say these things to my parents and neither to my brother.My father listens to eveything that his mother says so it is very likely that he will agree to this match.If my grand mother comes to know about this girl also she isnt going to tell my parents anything about it as the girl is her sisters daughter.So what should i do? please advise..

                      Praise be to Allaah.

                      You should note first of all that the letter which came to you by mistake may have been fabricated against this girl.

                      Secondly, if you are sure that this letter is genuine, then one of the two following scenarios must apply:

                      1 – That this girl has started to change and reform, and she has ended her haraam relationships. In this case there is nothing wrong with your brother marrying her. You should cover up for her, because the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: “The Muslim is the brother of his fellow Muslim; he does not wrong him or let him down. Whoever meets his brother’s needs, Allaah will meet his needs, and whoever relieves a Muslim of some worldly distress, Allaah will relieve him of some of the distress of the Day of Resurrection. Whoever covers a Muslim (conceals his sin), Allaah will cover him (conceal his sin) on the Day of Resurrection.”

                      Narrated by al-Bukhaari (2310), Muslim (2580).

                      See also question no. 4882, 26810.

                      The Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) has told us that repenting from sin erases it. He (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said:

                      “The one who repents from sin is like one who did not sin.” Narrated by Ibn Maajah, classed as hasan by al-Albaani in Saheeh Ibn Maajah, 3427.

                      See also questions no. 13990, 14289, 27176.

                      2 – If this woman’s religious commitment and character are not satisfactory, or there is no guarantee that she will not go back to haraam ways, then you should advise your brother not to marry her, because the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: “Religion is sincerity (naseehah).” We said: “To whom?” He said: “To Allaah, to His Book, to His Messenger and to the leaders of the Muslims and their common folk.” Narrated by Muslim, 55, from the hadeeth of al-Tameem al-Daari (may Allaah be pleased with him).

                      That should not be done by accusing her or exposing her, rather it should be done by trying to divert your brother from marrying her, such as by sending him a letter or telling him directly that marrying this girl will do him no good. If that does not put him off marrying her, then you should tell him that you know something that means that he has to forget about marrying her, and other things that will make him give up the idea of marrying her, even if you are forced to tell him what happened with this letter, without slandering her.

                      And Allaah knows best.

                      i am looking for a question where someone specifically asks a shaykh 'does one who has commited zina and repented remain unchaste' but as of yet i cant find this question. I'll try digging some fatawa out of books insha'Allah
                      Last edited by sis_on_sunnah; 16-03-12, 12:10 AM.
                      http://www.deenulhuq.wordpress.com

                      Don't depend on anyone too much in this world because even your own shadow leaves you when you are in darkness ~ibn taymiyyah

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                      • #86
                        Re: Right to know or not?

                        On the line of thought posted by a brother,

                        Where do we stop?


                        people who committed adultery, fornication, murder, rape, druggies, paedophiles, sodomites, we can marry them cause they've repented?

                        where do we draw the line?

                        :jkk:
                        http://www.ilovepalestine.com/campai...imesinGaza.gif

                        "It does not befit the lion to answer the dogs."

                        – Imam al-Shafi’i (Rahimahullah)

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                        • #87
                          Re: Right to know or not?

                          Obviously it depends on the person and what he/she is looking for and their own choice. Nobody is forcing anyone to marry an ex murderer or an ex rapist but if that's your choice knowing they have repented then khalaas. Remember in jahilliyah people used to bury their daughters, in Islam did they return to this sin? No. We shouldn't judge anyone for who they choose to marry
                          Last edited by sis_on_sunnah; 16-03-12, 01:22 AM.
                          http://www.deenulhuq.wordpress.com

                          Don't depend on anyone too much in this world because even your own shadow leaves you when you are in darkness ~ibn taymiyyah

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                          • #88
                            Re: Right to know or not?

                            Originally posted by sis_on_sunnah View Post
                            i am looking for a question where someone specifically asks a shaykh 'does one who has commited zina and repented remain unchaste' but as of yet i cant find this question. I'll try digging some fatawa out of books insha'Allah
                            no worries sis, a lot of these online fatwas are tailor made to fit complex situations

                            I've posted the question to IDA UK, they're usually quicker to reply than the rest, meanwhile I'll try and speak to a sheikh

                            He it is Who sends blessings on you, as do His angels, that He may bring you out from the depths of Darkness into Light: and He is Full of Mercy to the Believers. [Quran {33:43}]
                            www.QuranicAudio.com
                            www.Quran.com

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                            • #89
                              Re: Right to know or not?

                              AWW

                              You are confused with a person being classed as a chaste person and one who is an actual chaste
                              person. If a person commits a sin and repents (sincerely meeting all conditions of tawbah) then it
                              is as though he has not committed that sin. Allah forgives him and hence we can say he is in the
                              ruling of chaste. Another person never commits that sin then definitely he has this extra virtue.

                              I hope the above has clarified the matter.

                              Wassalaam
                              Suleman Lasania


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                              Darul Iftaa
                              Islamic Da'wah Academy
                              Tel: 0116 2625440
                              Looks like I was wrong. I admit defeat (Lol) and I apologise to all those I hassled.

                              Moral of the story is if you're looking for someone who is actually chaste, don't use the word chaste and just say you're looking for someone whose not had any previous partners.

                              He it is Who sends blessings on you, as do His angels, that He may bring you out from the depths of Darkness into Light: and He is Full of Mercy to the Believers. [Quran {33:43}]
                              www.QuranicAudio.com
                              www.Quran.com

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                              • #90
                                Re: Right to know or not?

                                Originally posted by sis_on_sunnah View Post
                                Obviously it depends on the person and what he/she is looking for and their own choice. Nobody is forcing anyone to marry an ex murderer or an ex rapist but if that's your choice knowing they have repented then khalaas. Remember in jahilliyah people used to bury their daughters, in Islam did they return to this sin? No. We shouldn't judge anyone for who they choose to marry
                                I was not talking about reverts, who we know for sure are given a clean slate when they accept Islam,

                                But Muslims who committed those major Sins ...

                                :jkk:
                                Last edited by Saif-Uddin; 16-03-12, 05:40 PM.
                                http://www.ilovepalestine.com/campai...imesinGaza.gif

                                "It does not befit the lion to answer the dogs."

                                – Imam al-Shafi’i (Rahimahullah)

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