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Right to know or not?

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  • #31
    Re: Right to know or not?

    Originally posted by naila-k View Post
    But would you thinly of saying it is very important to me my future wife has never been addicted to alcohol or drugs?
    The difference is that one is a 'deal-breaker' and the other is not.

    You are more likely to hear of a man divorcing his wife because he found out she had pre-marital relations then you are of a man divorcing his wife because she once took drugs or drunk alcohol.

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    • #32
      Re: Right to know or not?

      Firstly I am not only talking about the woman, what if it was the man who was recovering drug addict or alcpholic, if your sister or daughter was marrying such a man would you want to know?

      Secondly I am not talking about someone who has drunk or taken drugs, bit an actual addict whose life and families life were deeply affected by the addiction, and who if they relapse will be abusive, and not able to support family.

      Recipes for all the family :inlove:
      (and you thought I was a lazy feminazi which can't cook?)

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      • #33
        Re: Right to know or not?

        Originally posted by aadil77 View Post
        Zina is not like any other sin, its puts you in a permaneant state of unchasteness

        And like the sister said above, if a person is looking for someone chaste and if the potential spouse isn't chaste - they should have the decency to back out of the proposal. Its not permissable to decieve someone into marriage.
        I don't think that is true. Chaste for the chaste and unchaste for the unchaste, so are you saying if a person had committed zina, repented, and stayed away from it, they would never ever be able to marry a chaste person? I don't think so. If two people commit zina together and one repents and the other doesn't, they can't marry until they both repent. Because a repentant, chaste person cannot marry the other who is not chaste because they did not repent. But if they both repent, they are both chaste, it is halal to marry. In Islam we don't have this concept of a permanent mark of shame for some wrong committed in the past. We all sin and do wrong, if we repent and change our ways (a sign our repentance has been accepted) then we are in the same state of not having sinned. Zina is no exception.
        Blessed is He in Whose Hand is the Dominion, and He is Able to do all things. (67.1)

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        • #34
          Re: Right to know or not?

          ^ true :masha:

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          • #35
            Re: Right to know or not?

            Originally posted by mizfissy815 View Post
            So wait, we are to stop judging people based on what is apparent but instead go to judge everyone on all their sins distant past or recent irrespective of any repentance because the repentance may not have been accepted?

            Does that logic include converts/reverts and the 'risk' that they're shahadah hasn't been accepted?

            It does narrow down potentials though....to literally no one. Anyone who's ever spoken back to their parents from the time they became a baligh, or reacted in anger or has missed a single Jum'ah prayer in their adult life or gossiped once at the age of 16 etc...are not to be given the benefit of the doubt and be eliminated.

            You never know, if he misses Juma'ah again with a reason but this time it happens 3 consecutive times...some would say my marriage is void. Can't be taking that risk...
            False assertion,

            I said and I repeat, you take a Risk when you marry someone who has committed Adultery/was an Alcoholic or was a Druggie, etc ... of Relapses or past relations coming back ...

            I did not say that you should Not Judge based on what is Apparent.

            lastly I said someone who has kept themselves Chaste deserves a person likewise ...

            :jkk:
            http://www.ilovepalestine.com/campai...imesinGaza.gif

            "It does not befit the lion to answer the dogs."

            – Imam al-Shafi’i (Rahimahullah)

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            • #36
              Re: Right to know or not?

              Originally posted by naila-k View Post
              Firstly I am not only talking about the woman, what if it was the man who was recovering drug addict or alcpholic, if your sister or daughter was marrying such a man would you want to know?

              Secondly I am not talking about someone who has drunk or taken drugs, bit an actual addict whose life and families life were deeply affected by the addiction, and who if they relapse will be abusive, and not able to support family.
              If someone is a recovering drug addict or alcoholic then isn't it important for them to inform the the potential spouse that they have such a condition and have a chance of relapsing? I mean you wouldn't suprise your wife or husband by saying one day, "Guess what honey, I was rehab before I married because of drugs/alcohol and there's a chance I might relapse". I mean thats one hell of a shock to give someone and might even be considered deception for marrying them without telling.

              I'm not to informed about drug/alcohol addiction but wouldn't it be like a long-term illness like HIV or cancer or infertility and stuff like that are the sort of things you usually inform the person about before marrying them so if they are cool with it then they'll continue or decline.

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              • #37
                Re: Right to know or not?

                I'm inclined to agree, but it is also a grey area, what if it was 5 or ten years ago? Where is the cut off point?

                Recipes for all the family :inlove:
                (and you thought I was a lazy feminazi which can't cook?)

                Comment


                • #38
                  Re: Right to know or not?

                  i would say get to know the person by asking the right question(s). no point in finding out about stuff like that after the marriage. is only going to ruin your marriage.
                  “This day I have perfected your religion for you,completed My Favour upon you, and have chosen for you Islam as your religion.” [5:3]"I have created the jinns and the humans solely to worship Me."[51:56]"a woman's heart should be lost in God, that a man needs to see him in order to find her"

                  Comment


                  • #39
                    Re: Right to know or not?

                    Originally posted by Saif-Uddin View Post
                    False assertion,

                    I said and I repeat, you take a Risk when you marry someone who has committed Adultery/was an Alcoholic or was a Druggie, etc ... of Relapses or past relations coming back ...

                    I did not say that you should Not Judge based on what is Apparent.

                    lastly I said someone who has kept themselves Chaste deserves a person likewise ...

                    :jkk:
                    Why is it a risk, if there are no health issues involved? Every sin, every single one can come back to haunt you. Drug and Alcohol addiction are actual disease and you are treat it as such and make your decisions based on that. To claim it's a risk because repentance may not be accepted is the worst type of suspicion a Muslim can have. If what is apparent to you is a repentant person, to claim it's still a risk is pathetic.

                    But aside from that, whether it's someone who has problems with controlling their anger, tongue, attitude, etc...there's a risk. The risk that every single one of us as fallible humans live with every day anyway.

                    With zina in particular there's no risk of relapse, you don't 'accidentally' fall into it, it's not uncontrollable. As for a past partner coming back, life by and large isn't bollywood movie and even if it were, you can treat the bugger the same way the hero/heroine would and ever so gently put your foot down.

                    Allah(swt) is the Most Just and a repentant person will be judged as someone who hasn't committed the sin. And if we as Muslims are supposed to be just with one another, then we should do the same. We'll never be as Just as the Al-Mighty, but Allah(swt) Justice is the epitome of it surely that's the standards we should be trying to achieve in justice? Instead, you want to do the complete opposite, judge based on the possibility repentance is not accepted despite be warned of suspicion.

                    I don't have any issues with someone wanting to marry someone who is chaste (and that includes people who repent btw), or even people who lack tact enough to straight up say they want a virgin. I don't have issues with that at all.

                    My issue is with equating chastity with virginity as the OP did, excluding repentants from the definition of 'chaste' and this notion that it's your right to 'know'. It isn't.

                    It's your right to want something, it's not your right to know sins of others. The solution is simple, request what you want but don't ask as that's not your place. It's up to the potential to proceed or back away at that point.

                    Note- Muslims aren't allowed to marry unchaste people anyway. Man, woman, Muslim, Ahl Al-Kitaab, whatever...So this thing with chastity being important isn't an option. But as you are allowed to marry some who has repented, they are chaste. You couldn't marry them if they weren't.
                    Last edited by mizfissy815; 14-03-12, 12:22 AM.
                    "The discovery of truth is prevented more effectively, not by the false appearance of things present and which mislead into error, not directly by weakness of the reasoning powers, but by preconceived notions, opinion, and by prejudice." - Arthur Schopenhauer

                    Comment


                    • #40
                      Re: Right to know or not?

                      I think when it comes to finding out about people's past sins, the sins they committed openly are fair game to find out about. Like if the person openly had a boyfriend/girl friend. Went to the bar and drank, let everyone know about it, etc. If it was a thing that was hidden and repented from, then there is no reason to try to find that info out. If it was a serious health issue like a major drug addiction requiring treatment, I would not ask someone if they ever went through that, but for the one who has gone through that, they should let a potential know just like they would with any other major life event or medical event. If I was hospitalized for a diseases or mental illness at any point, I think it would be something worth mentioning, the same would be the case of a major drug addiction.

                      Although some people say don't look at the past of converts, or other that used to have a different lifestyle than what they currently do, I think there is a certain point of over looking, but you also need to consider the past behavior and character of the person. It can take a long time to change and it is part of that person. Converting/repenting does wipe out past sins, but it does not wipe out huge personality flaws and lack of character in one swoop. Changing your character takes time and you have to have a track record of doing good. I know people who married those who did terrible things, like repeatedly get women pregnant and leave, or spend 20 years in jail for murder, thinking that they are OK now because they converted and all that was before the conversion. Well let's just say those women had very bad things happen to them because of involving themselves with someone with a terrible past and no track record of anything else. On the other hand, many people have really bad parts in there past, but they moved on, changed and have some time in to prove it.
                      Blessed is He in Whose Hand is the Dominion, and He is Able to do all things. (67.1)

                      Comment


                      • #41
                        Re: Right to know or not?

                        Originally posted by mizfissy815 View Post
                        No it doesn't. According to the majority of scholars once a person repents sincerely, they're no longer accountable for that sin and no longer 'unchaste'. Chastity and virginity are not the same thing.

                        Brace yourself...
                        I read all of these on the other thread,

                        first off I don't follow brelwipath

                        and secondly you provided no proof for this statement:

                        No it doesn't. According to the majority of scholars once a person repents sincerely, they're no longer accountable for that sin and no longer 'unchaste'.

                        He it is Who sends blessings on you, as do His angels, that He may bring you out from the depths of Darkness into Light: and He is Full of Mercy to the Believers. [Quran {33:43}]
                        www.QuranicAudio.com
                        www.Quran.com

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                        • #42
                          Re: Right to know or not?

                          Originally posted by mizfissy815 View Post
                          It does narrow down potentials though....to literally no one. Anyone who's ever spoken back to their parents from the time they became a baligh, or reacted in anger or has missed a single Jum'ah prayer in their adult life or gossiped once at the age of 16 etc...are not to be given the benefit of the doubt and be eliminated.
                          please don't judge by your own standards, you're putting zina in the same category as backbiting whereas they're completely different sins, zina is one of the most shameless sins which takes a lot to commit, back-biting can occur by accident with the slip of the tongue whereas getting in bed with someone doesn't

                          Just look into the Qur'an and see how many times Allahs warns against fornicators and adulterers, then compare that to anything else

                          He it is Who sends blessings on you, as do His angels, that He may bring you out from the depths of Darkness into Light: and He is Full of Mercy to the Believers. [Quran {33:43}]
                          www.QuranicAudio.com
                          www.Quran.com

                          Comment


                          • #43
                            Re: Right to know or not?

                            Originally posted by aadil77 View Post
                            Zina is not like any other sin, its puts you in a permaneant state of unchasteness

                            And like the sister said above, if a person is looking for someone chaste and if the potential spouse isn't chaste - they should have the decency to back out of the proposal. Its not permissable to decieve someone into marriage.
                            What is your proof from quran and sunnah for these statements? Is it halal for unchaste ppl to marry in Islam?

                            Comment


                            • #44
                              Re: Right to know or not?

                              Originally posted by inprogress View Post
                              I don't think that is true. Chaste for the chaste and unchaste for the unchaste, so are you saying if a person had committed zina, repented, and stayed away from it, they would never ever be able to marry a chaste person? I don't think so. If two people commit zina together and one repents and the other doesn't, they can't marry until they both repent. Because a repentant, chaste person cannot marry the other who is not chaste because they did not repent. But if they both repent, they are both chaste, it is halal to marry. In Islam we don't have this concept of a permanent mark of shame for some wrong committed in the past. We all sin and do wrong, if we repent and change our ways (a sign our repentance has been accepted) then we are in the same state of not having sinned. Zina is no exception.
                              I didn't say a chaste person can't marry an unchaste person, but in the Qur'an it clearly says the Chaste should marry the Chaste which is pure and tough justice. It's not a mark of shame as no-one will know about it, but it is damage done, chastity is a one-off thing that has to be preserved.

                              He it is Who sends blessings on you, as do His angels, that He may bring you out from the depths of Darkness into Light: and He is Full of Mercy to the Believers. [Quran {33:43}]
                              www.QuranicAudio.com
                              www.Quran.com

                              Comment


                              • #45
                                Re: Right to know or not?

                                Originally posted by zakariyya21 View Post
                                What is your proof from quran and sunnah for these statements? Is it halal for unchaste ppl to marry in Islam?
                                Please read the thread before commenting http://www.askimam.org/fatwa/fatwa.p...6a7215d95aeb12

                                He it is Who sends blessings on you, as do His angels, that He may bring you out from the depths of Darkness into Light: and He is Full of Mercy to the Believers. [Quran {33:43}]
                                www.QuranicAudio.com
                                www.Quran.com

                                Comment

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