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Right to know or not?

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  • #16
    Re: Right to know or not?

    Originally posted by aadil77 View Post
    Zina is not like any other sin, its puts you in a permaneant state of unchasteness

    And like the sister said above, if a person is looking for someone chaste and if the potential spouse isn't chaste - they should have the decency to back out of the proposal. Its not permissable to decieve someone into marriage.
    Salaam

    Maybe they SHOULD back out of it themselves but it is perfectly permissible for them to hide that sin too. It's a well known fatwa that a person who has repented from a sin (including zina) can hide the fact that such a sin was committed, from anyone, including a potential spouse.

    :jkk:

    Comment


    • #17
      Re: Right to know or not?

      Originally posted by ahmad12 View Post
      Salaam

      Maybe they SHOULD back out of it themselves but it is perfectly permissible for them to hide that sin too. It's a well known fatwa that a person who has repented from a sin (including zina) can hide the fact that such a sin was committed, from anyone, including a potential spouse.

      :jkk:
      Wsalam

      That sounds like deception to me

      I've come across a different opinion:

      http://www.askimam.org/fatwa/fatwa.p...6a7215d95aeb12

      He it is Who sends blessings on you, as do His angels, that He may bring you out from the depths of Darkness into Light: and He is Full of Mercy to the Believers. [Quran {33:43}]
      www.QuranicAudio.com
      www.Quran.com

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      • #18
        Re: Right to know or not?

        Originally posted by aadil77 View Post
        Wsalam

        That sounds like deception to me

        I've come across a different opinion:

        http://www.askimam.org/fatwa/fatwa.p...6a7215d95aeb12
        Salaam

        :jkk:

        The opinion that it is not deceit exists: http://qa.sunnipath.com/issue_view.asp?ID=773

        The quote in the fatwa above comes from basic Hanafi texts whereas the one from askimam does not give a reference at all. Perhaps he gave his opinion or perhaps there is a difference of opinion amongst the mujtahideen. I will try to get this clarified

        :jkk:

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        • #19
          Re: Right to know or not?

          Originally posted by ahmad12 View Post
          Salaam

          Maybe they SHOULD back out of it themselves but it is perfectly permissible for them to hide that sin too. It's a well known fatwa that a person who has repented from a sin (including zina) can hide the fact that such a sin was committed, from anyone, including a potential spouse.

          :jkk:
          If Allah swt forgives your sins, including zina, then why does someone like Aadil77 think he knows better than Allah swt? :confused: If Allah swt has forgiven you does then mean you can't marry a virgin man but must marry a chaste man who has aslo repented?
          Never have any regrets you only get one shot at life this ain't no rehersal!

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          • #20
            Re: Right to know or not?

            Originally posted by aadil77 View Post
            Zina is not like any other sin, its puts you in a permaneant state of unchasteness
            No it doesn't. According to the majority of scholars once a person repents sincerely, they're no longer accountable for that sin and no longer 'unchaste'. Chastity and virginity are not the same thing.

            Brace yourself...

            From-IslamQA http://www.islam-qa.com/en/ref/94820/

            Shaykh Ibn Baaz (may Allaah have mercy on him) was asked about a married woman who had three children, and she became pregnant with a fourth child as the result of zina. Is it permissible for her to abort the foetus, or should she keep it? If she keeps it, should she tell her husband or not? And what should the husband do in this case?

            He replied: It is not permissible for her to abort the foetus. What she has to do is repent to Allaah and not disclose this matter. The child belongs to her husband, because the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: “The child belongs to the (marital) bed, and the adulterer gets nothing.” May Allaah set all our affairs straight. End quote.
            From-IslamQA http://www.islam-qa.com/en/ref/95024
            ....
            One of the signs that Allaah has accepted repentance is that He conceals His slave and does not expose him, and He extends his life span so that he will draw close to Him and make his peace with Him. We praise Allaah for having helped you to pray regularly and wear hijab, and to obey Him and repent. We hope that Allaah, the Most Generous and Most Merciful, has forgiven you, and we ask Him to do that.

            If Allaah has concealed you, then do not break that concealment that He has bestowed upon you, and do not tell your husband or anyone else anything about what happened. Your repentance is regret and righteousness and doing good deeds.
            .....
            From- Sunnipath http://spa.qibla.com/issue_view.asp?...D=9269&CATE=10

            In the Shariah, someone can be:

            (1) an actual virgin (namely, someone who hasn't engaged in sexual intercourse)

            (2) an effective vrigin (namely, someone not known to have engaged in sexual intercourse)

            (3) a non-virgin (namely, someone previously married such that they would have consummated their marriage, or someone openly known to have engaged in zina).

            [ Ibn Abidin, Radd al-Muhtar ; Shaykh Zada, Majma` al-Anhur]

            Both (1) and (2) are considered "virgins" when it comes to the rulings of the Shariah, and can state that they are "virgins" without this being a lie or deceit. Rather, it is from the Mercy of Allah Most High that this door of moving on without disadvantaging oneself remains for those who erred.
            From- Sunnipath http://qa.sunnipath.com/issue_view.a...&ID=773&CATE=3

            In the Hanafi madhhab, a woman can either actually be a virgin or effectively so.

            An ‘actual virgin’ is a woman whose hymen (def: ‘A fold of tissue that partly covers the entrance to the vagina of a virgin’) is still intact.

            An ‘effective virgin’ is a woman whom people consider still a virgin, even though she may have had sexual intercourse in the past without this being presently known about her. This is because virginity is something of great social weight in Islamic society, and for a past error (from which the woman has presumably repented) to affect her honor and future would be wrong… [Radd al-Muhtar,Majma` al-Anhur]
            From- Sunnipath http://spa.qibla.com/issue_view.asp?...D=3070&CATE=95

            Should a mother "lie" to her son about his being born out of wedlock?

            .....
            1. We are told to hide our sins from people and to repent to Allah. As such, it will not be necessary to tell the child at this point the reality of the situation of his birth. This can only be a great shock for him, is devoid of benefit, and can lead to other detriments. The parents should somehow prevent him from straying into that area and becoming suspicious. In any case, it will not be necessary for the mother or father to reveal this information even if he asks. One may avoid the question if such a situation arises.
            .....
            From- Sunnipath http://spa.qibla.com/issue_view.asp?...=2607&CATE=101
            I have heard many scholars talk about the need for a Muslim, who has committed a sin (kaba'air) to hide the fact that he committed this, even if it means lying about it to someone who asks. I have a few questions about this.

            The point is not to lie rather, it is to conceal one's sin and not to talk about it, for mention of sin is itself sin.
            Last edited by mizfissy815; 13-03-12, 08:48 PM.
            "The discovery of truth is prevented more effectively, not by the false appearance of things present and which mislead into error, not directly by weakness of the reasoning powers, but by preconceived notions, opinion, and by prejudice." - Arthur Schopenhauer

            Comment


            • #21
              Re: Right to know or not?

              And finally...

              From IslamQA- http://www.islam-qa.com/en/ref/127587/





              Answer


              Praise be to Allaah.
              Firstly:

              It is sufficient for him that she is righteous and is known for good at the time of marrying her, and there is nothing wrong with her religious commitment or chastity. As to whether she did anything haraam in the past, but then repented from it and became righteous, it is wrong to ask her about that and make her choose between telling lies or getting divorced, or make her tell her secrets and disclose that which Allaah had concealed for her, then if she tells him the truth, that opens the door to doubt and suspicion.

              What some people call for, of each spouse being frank with the other and telling them of things in the past that Allaah has concealed, is wrong and ignorant. Rather they should be pleased that Allaah has concealed it and they should praise Allaah for it.

              Secondly:

              http://www.islam-qa.com/en/ref/127587/
              "The discovery of truth is prevented more effectively, not by the false appearance of things present and which mislead into error, not directly by weakness of the reasoning powers, but by preconceived notions, opinion, and by prejudice." - Arthur Schopenhauer

              Comment


              • #22
                Re: Right to know or not?

                Originally posted by Hudson View Post
                :up: ..

                May I also add , widows too .
                Your right, my Blunder, I missed out the widows,

                Virgins, Divorcees and Widows ...

                :jkk:
                http://www.ilovepalestine.com/campai...imesinGaza.gif

                "It does not befit the lion to answer the dogs."

                – Imam al-Shafi’i (Rahimahullah)

                Comment


                • #23
                  Re: Right to know or not?

                  With regards to STDs, that you have the right to know because it actually affects your health.

                  But that's not limited to STDs either, pretty much anything that will detrimental to your health or that of your future children is fair game.
                  "The discovery of truth is prevented more effectively, not by the false appearance of things present and which mislead into error, not directly by weakness of the reasoning powers, but by preconceived notions, opinion, and by prejudice." - Arthur Schopenhauer

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    Re: Right to know or not?

                    Originally posted by aadil77 View Post
                    no you're not, there'd be no point to chastity if that were the case

                    sin may be erased after sincere repentance but the condition isn't
                    assuming someone committed Zina after accepting Islam, we don't know who's sins are erased and who's isn't, that knowledge is with Allah ta'ala alone ...

                    :jkk:
                    http://www.ilovepalestine.com/campai...imesinGaza.gif

                    "It does not befit the lion to answer the dogs."

                    – Imam al-Shafi’i (Rahimahullah)

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      Re: Right to know or not?

                      What about a drug addict or alcoholic? People stop for months and years but then go back often. Would you want to know if your potential husband was a heroin addict? Would it matter how long he had been clean for? A week? A month? 3 months? What if he had managed to be clean for that amount of time previously then went back to using?

                      What would you think if none of his family mentioned it to you but everyone knew but you?

                      Recipes for all the family :inlove:
                      (and you thought I was a lazy feminazi which can't cook?)

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        Re: Right to know or not?

                        Originally posted by sis_on_sunnah View Post
                        assalamu alaykum,

                        if the person proposing is very concerned about the zinah issue, then in the meeting they should say 'to me it's important that my future wife has had no past partners' or something along them lines and the woman, if she has had past partners then she should have the decency to decline the proposal on that basis. obviously she will not admit her reasons for rejecting it.

                        obviously you would be praying istikaarah too and if the whole thing has been legit then insha'Allah Allah subhanahu wa ta'aala will guide you to who is right for you.. you shouldnt worry about these things too much, its the tricks of the shayateen who try and deter people from marriage.
                        This.

                        If this issue is a 'deal-breaker' for a brother then maybe try and discreetly get across that this is one of the things you are looking for in a spouse. Like saying "The characteristics I'm looking for in a wife is that she is religious-minded, prays, fasts, maintains her modesty, has preserved her chasitity and stayed away from illicit relations, respects her parents etc..". If she doesn't meet the criteria then she should have the decency to decline the proposal otherwise she only has herself to blame if he divorces her after finding out after marriage that she decieved him.

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          Re: Right to know or not?

                          But would you thinly of saying it is very important to me my future wife has never been addicted to alcohol or drugs?

                          Recipes for all the family :inlove:
                          (and you thought I was a lazy feminazi which can't cook?)

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            Re: Right to know or not?

                            Originally posted by naila-k View Post
                            What about a drug addict or alcoholic? People stop for months and years but then go back often. Would you want to know if your potential husband was a heroin addict? Would it matter how long he had been clean for? A week? A month? 3 months? What if he had managed to be clean for that amount of time previously then went back to using?

                            What would you think if none of his family mentioned it to you but everyone knew but you?
                            The same can be said of a person who committed Zina,

                            if a Former Zina relation with a Man/Women respectively comes back during your marriage?

                            Thats the Risk one takes when one marries under the assumption that they have repented Sincerely ...

                            someone who has preserved their Chastity throughout the life, deserves someone Chaste likewise.

                            :jkk:
                            http://www.ilovepalestine.com/campai...imesinGaza.gif

                            "It does not befit the lion to answer the dogs."

                            – Imam al-Shafi’i (Rahimahullah)

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              Re: Right to know or not?

                              I thought the spouses have to get tested before marriage? If not, itsnt that risky?
                              I'd like to know, but I don't think anyone is allowed to reveal the sins, plus I rather not know, so I'm not jealous for the rest of my life
                              The life of this world is only the enjoyment of deception (a deceiving thing)” (3:185)

                              Avoid excessive laughter and useless arguments as they harden the heart and lead to heedlessness.

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                Re: Right to know or not?

                                Originally posted by Saif-Uddin View Post
                                The same can be said of a person who committed Zina,

                                if a Former Zina relation with a Man/Women respectively comes back during your marriage?

                                Thats the Risk one takes when one marries under the assumption that they have repented Sincerely ...

                                someone who has preserved their Chastity throughout the life, deserves someone Chaste likewise.

                                :jkk:
                                So wait, we are to stop judging people based on what is apparent but instead go to judge everyone on all their sins distant past or recent irrespective of any repentance because the repentance may not have been accepted?

                                Does that logic include converts/reverts and the 'risk' that they're shahadah hasn't been accepted?

                                It does narrow down potentials though....to literally no one. Anyone who's ever spoken back to their parents from the time they became a baligh, or reacted in anger or has missed a single Jum'ah prayer in their adult life or gossiped once at the age of 16 etc...are not to be given the benefit of the doubt and be eliminated.

                                You never know, if he misses Juma'ah again with a reason but this time it happens 3 consecutive times...some would say my marriage is void. Can't be taking that risk...
                                Last edited by mizfissy815; 13-03-12, 09:46 PM.
                                "The discovery of truth is prevented more effectively, not by the false appearance of things present and which mislead into error, not directly by weakness of the reasoning powers, but by preconceived notions, opinion, and by prejudice." - Arthur Schopenhauer

                                Comment

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