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Can I do a Nikah??

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  • #76
    Re: Can I do a Nikah??

    Shaykh al-Islam Ibn Taymiyah (may Allaah have mercy on him) said:

    With regard to secret marriage, which they agree to conceal and for which they do not bring any witnesses, it is invalid according to all the scholars and it comes under the heading of immorality. Allaah, may He be exalted, says (interpretation of the meaning): “All others are lawful, provided you seek (them in marriage) with Mahr (bridal-money given by the husband to his wife at the time of marriage) from your property, desiring chastity, not committing illegal sexual intercourse” [al-Nisa’ 4:24].

    Majmoo’ al-Fataawa (33/158).

    He also said:

    If they get married without a wali or witnesses, and conceal the marriage, this is an invalid marriage according to the consensus of the imams. Rather the view of the scholars is that “there is no marriage without a wali” and “Any woman who gets married without the permission of her wali, her marriage is invalid, her marriage is invalid, her marriage is invalid”. Both of these phrases are narrated in al-Sunan from the Prophet (blessings and peace of Allaah be upon him). More than one of the early generation said: There is no marriage except with two witnesses. This is the view of Abu Haneefah, al-Shaafa’i and Ahmad, and Maalik regarded it as obligatory to announce the marriage.

    Secret marriage is akin to a relationship with a prostitute. End quote.

    Majmoo’ al-Fataawa (32/102, 103)


    and yet taqi usman (born 1943 ce) says that the hanafi madhab says otherwise.
    "O you who believe! Stand out firmly for justice, as witnesses to Allah, even as against yourselves, or your parents, or your kin, and whether it be (against) rich or poor: for Allah can best protect both. Follow not the lusts (of your hearts), lest you swerve, and if you distort (justice) or decline to do justice, verily Allah is well-acquainted with all that you do." [An-Nisa 4:135]

    The Prophet :saw: said:

    "Whosoever leaves off obedience and separates from the Jamaa'ah and dies, he dies a death of jaahiliyyah. Whoever fights under the banner of the blind, becoming angry for 'asabiyyah (nationalism/tribalism/partisanship) or calling to 'asabiyyah, or assisting 'asabiyyah, then dies, he dies a death of jaahiliyyah."

    muslim

    Narrated 'Abdullah:

    The Prophet, said, "Abusing a Muslim is Fusuq (evil doing) and killing him is Kufr (disbelief)." sahih bukhari


    "Creeping upon you is the diseases of those people before you: envy and hatred. And hatred is the thing that shaves. I do not say it shaves the hair but it shaves the religion!

    By the One in whose Hand is my soul, you will not enter paradise until you believe, and you will not believe until you love one another. Certainly, let me inform you of that which may establish such things: spread the greetings and peace among yourselves."

    [Recorded by Imam Ahmad and Al-Tirmidhi]

    Comment


    • #77
      Re: Can I do a Nikah??

      Originally posted by *asiya* View Post
      Shaykh al-Islam Ibn Taymiyah (may Allaah have mercy on him) said:

      With regard to secret marriage, which they agree to conceal and for which they do not bring any witnesses, it is invalid according to all the scholars and it comes under the heading of immorality. Allaah, may He be exalted, says (interpretation of the meaning): “All others are lawful, provided you seek (them in marriage) with Mahr (bridal-money given by the husband to his wife at the time of marriage) from your property, desiring chastity, not committing illegal sexual intercourse” [al-Nisa’ 4:24].

      Majmoo’ al-Fataawa (33/158).

      He also said:

      If they get married without a wali or witnesses, and conceal the marriage, this is an invalid marriage according to the consensus of the imams. Rather the view of the scholars is that “there is no marriage without a wali” and “Any woman who gets married without the permission of her wali, her marriage is invalid, her marriage is invalid, her marriage is invalid”. Both of these phrases are narrated in al-Sunan from the Prophet (blessings and peace of Allaah be upon him). More than one of the early generation said: There is no marriage except with two witnesses. This is the view of Abu Haneefah, al-Shaafa’i and Ahmad, and Maalik regarded it as obligatory to announce the marriage.

      Secret marriage is akin to a relationship with a prostitute. End quote.

      Majmoo’ al-Fataawa (32/102, 103)


      and yet taqi usman (born 1943 ce) says that the hanafi madhab says otherwise.
      That's because it DOES say otherwise. The quotes from Hanafi scholars have already been given, as well as certain proofs.

      The fact is this- even at the time of the Salaf, there were Ulema who believed it a nikah without a wali to be valid. This was their opinion, in the same way that it is the opinion of Hanafi's (there is a consensus from our scholars on this). Would you have spoken to these people in the manner you are speaking to us for adhering to their interpretation? It would be wiser for you to say that you disagree with the Hanafi's, despite them having their own evidences for the fatwa, and leave it at that, instead of mocking the opinion that has come to us from the Salaf themselves; the same Salaf who have a status higher than all of us on this forum put together

      :jkk:

      Comment


      • #78
        Re: Can I do a Nikah??

        Originally posted by *asiya* View Post
        So there u have it more hanafis are saying women dont need a wali. so all you hanafi girls who want to get married, can grab a couple of their freinds and marry themselves to anyone they want whenever they want. Im So glad im not a hanafi with daughters.
        Salaam

        This is not true. Have you even read our posts? First, a marriage without a wali is valid but NOT recommended. Secondly, it is not valid in every case- there has to be compatibility between the couple (kufu') in order for there to be validity so they can't marry 'anyone they want whenever they want' as you said.

        :jkk:

        Comment


        • #79
          Re: Can I do a Nikah??

          the issue here is that we dont want people reading this and then going out to get married without wali

          and that could very well become the case

          look at the original poster, she is looking for some reason to justify deceiving her parents so she can marry her boyfriend

          this whole conversation reminds me of the hadith where the prophet told (i believe it was hudhayfa) that all you need is to say لا إله إلا ألله and you can go to jannah, and umar ran into the brother and then asked the prophet not to tell the people this, lest they abandon the sunnah

          i think we can all agree that the nikah CAN be valid without a wali, but that it is the exception based upon certain criteria, and without that criteria, you may be just committing zinaa
          .لا نريد زعيما يخاف البيت الإبيض
          نريد زعيما يخاف الواحد الأحد
          دولة الإسلامية باقية





          Comment


          • #80
            Re: Can I do a Nikah??

            :jkk:
            "O you who believe! Stand out firmly for justice, as witnesses to Allah, even as against yourselves, or your parents, or your kin, and whether it be (against) rich or poor: for Allah can best protect both. Follow not the lusts (of your hearts), lest you swerve, and if you distort (justice) or decline to do justice, verily Allah is well-acquainted with all that you do." [An-Nisa 4:135]

            The Prophet :saw: said:

            "Whosoever leaves off obedience and separates from the Jamaa'ah and dies, he dies a death of jaahiliyyah. Whoever fights under the banner of the blind, becoming angry for 'asabiyyah (nationalism/tribalism/partisanship) or calling to 'asabiyyah, or assisting 'asabiyyah, then dies, he dies a death of jaahiliyyah."

            muslim

            Narrated 'Abdullah:

            The Prophet, said, "Abusing a Muslim is Fusuq (evil doing) and killing him is Kufr (disbelief)." sahih bukhari


            "Creeping upon you is the diseases of those people before you: envy and hatred. And hatred is the thing that shaves. I do not say it shaves the hair but it shaves the religion!

            By the One in whose Hand is my soul, you will not enter paradise until you believe, and you will not believe until you love one another. Certainly, let me inform you of that which may establish such things: spread the greetings and peace among yourselves."

            [Recorded by Imam Ahmad and Al-Tirmidhi]

            Comment


            • #81
              Re: Can I do a Nikah??

              Originally posted by AbuMubarak View Post
              the issue here is that we dont want people reading this and then going out to get married without wali

              and that could very well become the case

              look at the original poster, she is looking for some reason to justify deceiving her parents so she can marry her boyfriend

              this whole conversation reminds me of the hadith where the prophet told (i believe it was hudhayfa) that all you need is to say لا إله إلا ألله and you can go to jannah, and umar ran into the brother and then asked the prophet not to tell the people this, lest they abandon the sunnah

              i think we can all agree that the nikah CAN be valid without a wali, but that it is the exception based upon certain criteria, and without that criteria, you may be just committing zinaa
              Yes, agree with that.

              That's why I think all these posts should be removed, because the OP, firstly, hasn't even told her parents, as far as I know. I highly doubt any Hanafi Imam would even allow that.
              Secure few moments, everyday, to reflect upon the innumerable blessings of Allah and thank Him for bestowing them upon you.

              "A person who is blessed with the ability to be grateful, shall never be deprived of barakah and increase in blessings."
              - Rasulullah (صلی اللہ علیہ وسلم)‎

              Comment


              • #82
                Re: Can I do a Nikah??

                Originally posted by *asiya* View Post
                and yet taqi usman (born 1943 ce) says that the hanafi madhab says otherwise.
                Mufti Taqi Usmani is only using the Hanafi methodology to derive the ruling. He is not making it up from himself. The stance is backed up by many hadiths from he Prophet :saw: himself + verses from the Quran. Just clearing that up.
                Secure few moments, everyday, to reflect upon the innumerable blessings of Allah and thank Him for bestowing them upon you.

                "A person who is blessed with the ability to be grateful, shall never be deprived of barakah and increase in blessings."
                - Rasulullah (صلی اللہ علیہ وسلم)‎

                Comment


                • #83
                  Re: Can I do a Nikah??

                  I always thought a girl couldn't marry without the consent of her wali?? :scratch:
                  *~* Learn Patience from Aasiyah (RA); Loyalty from Khadhija (RA); Sincerity from Aisha (RA) and Steadfastness from Fatima (RA).*~*

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                  • #84
                    Re: Can I do a Nikah??

                    akhi

                    quran says if you are starving you can eat pork, now if someone wants to eat pork anyway, they can twist that ayat to eat pork, but Allah knows their intention

                    and the sister as well as all of us should always check out our intention, even with clearly halal deeds

                    you can read quran and get cursed if your reading is not for Allah and improving your islam, but to show off or debate
                    .لا نريد زعيما يخاف البيت الإبيض
                    نريد زعيما يخاف الواحد الأحد
                    دولة الإسلامية باقية





                    Comment


                    • #85
                      Re: Can I do a Nikah??

                      Originally posted by AbuMubarak View Post
                      akhi

                      quran says if you are starving you can eat pork, now if someone wants to eat pork anyway, they can twist that ayat to eat pork, but Allah knows their intention

                      and the sister as well as all of us should always check out our intention, even with clearly halal deeds

                      you can read quran and get cursed if your reading is not for Allah and improving your islam, but to show off or debate
                      My brother, these scholars are not twisting the verses. I'm sure you can believe that. They have nothing to gain from it.

                      I don't mean to debate, but the opinion is there and held by many scholars. That's all I'm saying.
                      Secure few moments, everyday, to reflect upon the innumerable blessings of Allah and thank Him for bestowing them upon you.

                      "A person who is blessed with the ability to be grateful, shall never be deprived of barakah and increase in blessings."
                      - Rasulullah (صلی اللہ علیہ وسلم)‎

                      Comment


                      • #86
                        Re: Can I do a Nikah??

                        Originally posted by .mirror. View Post
                        My brother, these scholars are not twisting the verses. I'm sure you can believe that. They have nothing to gain from it.

                        I don't mean to debate, but the opinion is there and held by many scholars. That's all I'm saying.
                        you missed my point
                        .لا نريد زعيما يخاف البيت الإبيض
                        نريد زعيما يخاف الواحد الأحد
                        دولة الإسلامية باقية





                        Comment


                        • #87
                          Re: Can I do a Nikah??

                          Originally posted by *asiya* View Post


                          Majmoo’ al-Fataawa (32/102, 103) [/I]


                          and yet taqi usman (born 1943 ce) says that the hanafi madhab says otherwise.
                          Did you read the stuff before what Mufti Taqi says:
                          How about what A'isha (ra) said?

                          t is also important to note that the hadith which the opposition quotes from ‘Ayesha (raa) is contrary to her action. Ghulam Rasool Sa’eedi, in Sharh Muslim vol. 3 pg 828, quotes a hadith from Musannaf Abi Sheeba which is as follows:

                          “Qasim bin Muhammad says that ‘Ayesha (raa) did the nikah of the daughter of ‘Abdur Rahman bin Abi Bakr with Mundhir bin al-Zubair. At that time ‘Abdur Rahman was not present. When he came, he became angry and said, ‘O slaves of Allah! Is it done to a person like me that his daughter is married without his consultation? ‘Ayesha got angry and asked, ‘do you dislike Mundhir?’”

                          A variant of this hadith is also recorded in Sharh Ma’ani al-Athar by different chains, where Mundhir stated that ‘Abdur Rahman has the authority and ‘Abdur Rahman said that he will not cancel anything which has been decided by ‘Ayesha (raa).

                          In light of this one can come up with two conclusions. The first being, that ‘Ayesha (raa) did not consider the hadith ‘Her marriage is void. Her marriage is void. Her marriage is void,’ to be sahih and thus she acted opposite to it as seen in the hadith above. In this case, the former hadith cannot be used as evidence. The second being, that she does hold the former hadith to be true but the sense she implies is not what the opposition understand.

                          Allama Badruddin al-‘Ainee, in ‘Umdatul Qari vol.20 pg 163, observes:

                          “But its meaning refers to kamal (perfection) like in the hadith of the prophetﷺ about prayer when he says “no prayer (is valid) unless in a masjid.”

                          Mufti Sa’eed Ahmed Palanpuri, in Tuhfatul Alma’ee vol.3 pg 518 adds:

                          “Imam A’zam says that this hadith is to threaten against something and in such ahadith the deficient is declared as banned. This is seen, for example, in the hadith in Kitab at-Tahara where it is stated that a man who sleeps with a menstruating woman or enters his wife from behind or goes to soothsayer to ask about things of ghaib has rejected the deen which has been revealed onto Muhammad ﷺ. This hadith is to threaten and in it deficient iman has been talked about as being banned. Hence no one will do takfir of such a person. Over here also, deficiency in nikah has been expressed as banned. And the evidence (daleel) is that the prophet ﷺ has said that such a woman married without a wali, with whom the husband has cohabited, will get the dowry.
                          . . . .And the meaning of the hadith is that if a woman does her nikah without consent of wali, then if the wali objects and the judge cancels the nikah, then if is wajib on the husband because the nikah was correct and the husband benefitted physically from his wife after a proper nikah. Thus dowry becomes wajib.”

                          Moreover, in their apparent meaning, these ahadith also contradict the Qur’anic verse:

                          فَلاَ تَعْضُلُوهُنَّ أَن يَنكِحْنَ أَزْوَاجَهُنَّ
                          fala taAAduloohunna an yankihna azwajahunna
                          Do not prevent them from marrying their husbands - [Qur’an 2:232]

                          This verse is evidence for the Hanafi as if attributes the right of nikah to the women and also that the wali has no right to interfere in the matter of the woman. However, people who oppose Hanafi say this verse is evidence for their stand as the Qur’an forbids something to the wali and something can only be forbidden for someone who has authority over it.
                          Hadith, Fiqh and Tafsir Scholarship
                          http://www.al-salam.co.uk/[B][COLOR="#006400"]

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                          • #88
                            Re: Can I do a Nikah??

                            Originally posted by AbuIbraheem. View Post
                            Did you read the stuff before what Mufti Taqi says:
                            How about what A'isha (ra) said?
                            brother u cant get +iv results arguing with a wall ..
                            Most Charming Kitten

                            Only in Pakistan

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                            • #89
                              Re: Can I do a Nikah??

                              You all confuse me

                              Comment


                              • #90
                                Re: Can I do a Nikah??

                                Originally posted by zaraa View Post
                                You all confuse me
                                you started off confused

                                we are just trying to make sense of it all
                                .لا نريد زعيما يخاف البيت الإبيض
                                نريد زعيما يخاف الواحد الأحد
                                دولة الإسلامية باقية





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