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  • #46
    Re: Secret 2nd wives and double lives

    Originally posted by abu_fulan_fulan View Post
    yes it is something haram, you are saying if your husband did something which is permissable to him, you would take the house, cars and kids which is not for you to just take in an islamic marriage.

    the right of asking for a divorce if you feel your deen is threatened is there for you, but taking him to the cleaners over something halal is not.
    Asalaamu Alaikum,

    She dislikes polygyny (even though she's never practiced it to hate it), so her view is going to be biased.
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    • #47
      Re: Secret 2nd wives and double lives

      Originally posted by -Jibril- View Post
      I know someone thats got a secret 2nd wife, his first wife doesnt know, but the second sister knows about the first.

      The second sister approached him and basically stated that she wouldnt want much of his time, nor any of his money, since she can provide for herself, all she wants is his company and for him to help her with her deen.

      They used to work together and she heard alot about him and liked the way he carried himself, so wanted to make it halaal instead of being a mistress.

      So my question is this, what do you think?

      I'm not askin whether its halaal or not, since there are many opinions on this issue, what I am asking is, how do you FEEL about it?

      As a sister, would you do this?

      As a sister, how would you feel if this was your husband?
      As a brother, would you do this?
      What if someone did that to your sister?

      thats really dispicable, the prophet :saw: said announce the marriage, first person who would need to know would be the wife, there is no such thing as a secret marriage, any man who was so conniving as to do that behind his wifes back, is not a man you would want to be married to, and with sisters in islam like that, who needs enemies.
      "O you who believe! Stand out firmly for justice, as witnesses to Allah, even as against yourselves, or your parents, or your kin, and whether it be (against) rich or poor: for Allah can best protect both. Follow not the lusts (of your hearts), lest you swerve, and if you distort (justice) or decline to do justice, verily Allah is well-acquainted with all that you do." [An-Nisa 4:135]

      The Prophet :saw: said:

      "Whosoever leaves off obedience and separates from the Jamaa'ah and dies, he dies a death of jaahiliyyah. Whoever fights under the banner of the blind, becoming angry for 'asabiyyah (nationalism/tribalism/partisanship) or calling to 'asabiyyah, or assisting 'asabiyyah, then dies, he dies a death of jaahiliyyah."

      muslim

      Narrated 'Abdullah:

      The Prophet, said, "Abusing a Muslim is Fusuq (evil doing) and killing him is Kufr (disbelief)." sahih bukhari


      "Creeping upon you is the diseases of those people before you: envy and hatred. And hatred is the thing that shaves. I do not say it shaves the hair but it shaves the religion!

      By the One in whose Hand is my soul, you will not enter paradise until you believe, and you will not believe until you love one another. Certainly, let me inform you of that which may establish such things: spread the greetings and peace among yourselves."

      [Recorded by Imam Ahmad and Al-Tirmidhi]

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      • #48
        Re: Secret 2nd wives and double lives

        Originally posted by -Jibril- View Post
        I know someone thats got a secret 2nd wife, his first wife doesnt know, but the second sister knows about the first.

        The second sister approached him and basically stated that she wouldnt want much of his time, nor any of his money, since she can provide for herself, all she wants is his company and for him to help her with her deen.

        They used to work together and she heard alot about him and liked the way he carried himself, so wanted to make it halaal instead of being a mistress.

        So my question is this, what do you think?

        I'm not askin whether its halaal or not, since there are many opinions on this issue, what I am asking is, how do you FEEL about it?

        As a sister, would you do this?

        As a sister, how would you feel if this was your husband?
        As a brother, would you do this?
        What if someone did that to your sister?
        No comment, I'm sure most of you, esp. Mirror knows how I feel about this.
        Do not want to start an arguement on this thread.
        Last edited by Bina20; 20-11-11, 01:35 AM. Reason: Thought Jibril was a sis
        ... " They will find all that they did, placed before them: And not one will thy Lord treat with injustice"

        (Quran: Surah 18 Verse 49)

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        • #49
          Re: Secret 2nd wives and double lives

          Originally posted by Bint-Al-Islam View Post
          if that was my husband i would simply ask for a divorce the minute i found out about the second wife.
          i would also take the house, the cars and the kids :up:
          This is typical of a Muslim woman who lives in the west when it comes to divorce.

          Asking for a divorce maybe halal bur taking the house, cars and kids isn't!
          It is a power given by the west that is abused by women.
          Those women should fear Allah (swt) as one day they will return to Him and will have to answer for what they have done.

          This whole 'I am going to divorce him and take him for everything he has' attitude is totally against the spirit of Islam, EVEN IF the man is in the wrong.

          Whatever we do we should remember we are bound by Islam.
          Hadith, Fiqh and Tafsir Scholarship
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          • #50
            Re: Secret 2nd wives and double lives

            .….
            Last edited by bint begum; 20-11-11, 01:47 AM. Reason: Problem solved

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            • #51
              Re: Secret 2nd wives and double lives

              Originally posted by -Jibril- View Post
              What I am asking is, how do you FEEL about it?

              As a sister, would you do this?

              As a sister, how would you feel if this was your husband?
              I'd feel hurt, betrayed n angry.

              For my own selfish needs, no I wouldn't potentially break a marriage as well as destroy another woman n her children's lives.

              Personally, I wouldnt feel comfortable being in a polygamous relationship; but in a hypothetical situation, I'd only agree to be a second wife following the acceptance of the first wife n if everything was carried out openly.

              I'd react according to the level of his dishonesty...if it turned out that he'd been churning out lies left, right n centre, n I felt as tho I couldn't trust him again then I wouldn't hesitate in divorcing him
              Allah's Messenger :saw: said: "Allah the Exalted said: I live in the thought of My servant and I am with him as he remembers Me. When he draws near Me by the span of his hand, I draw near him by the length of a cubit, and when he draws near Me by the length of a cubit, I draw near him by the length of a fathom, and when he draws near Me walking I draw close to him running." (Al-Bukhari)

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              • #52
                Re: Secret 2nd wives and double lives

                Originally posted by abu_fulan_fulan View Post
                what has been described sounds very much like a misyar marriage, which some ulema permit, some say is disliked, others haram because of the way it can be abused.

                as such the equal nights, financial support etc doesn't apply if it is a misyar marriage which even if they've not labelled it as such it sounds like the same thing, she doesn't want to be supported, she can do that herself, nor does she want to take him away half the time, just when it is good for both of them.
                Yes.. but even with a misyar marriage.. it is not meant to be a secret marriage.. even if the new wife agrees to give up things .. the marriage must still be announced and the first person who should know about it is the first wife or other wives.

                and even a misyar marriage is only misyar for as long as the wife is happy for it.. she has every right to ask for her rights to be given her at any time.. although if it was written in the nikah then that may need a new contract ?
                .The Prophet sal Allahu alaiyhi wa sallam said, “I guarantee a house in Jannah for one who gives up arguing, even if he is in the right; and I guarantee a home in the middle of Jannah for one who abandons lying even for the sake of fun; and I guarantee a house in the highest part of Jannah for one who has good manners.”
                http://jameelah61.wordpress.com/

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                • #53
                  Re: Secret 2nd wives and double lives

                  I would not want to be anyones second wife. First it would be wrong breaking another womans heart, plus I would always feel second best. I knew of this couple who had an affair, got married to make it halal and literally after 1 month they got divorced. The man returned to his wife and the woman still looking for mr right.

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                  • #54
                    Re: Secret 2nd wives and double lives

                    Originally posted by Maryam Ali View Post
                    I would not want to be anyones second wife. First it would be wrong breaking another womans heart, plus I would always feel second best. I knew of this couple who had an affair, got married to make it halal and literally after 1 month they got divorced. The man returned to his wife and the woman still looking for mr right.

                    SubhanAllah.. why does everyone assume that a man marrying a second wife will break the first wife's heart.. what breaks her heart is a man not doing it properly.. a real man can treat each wife as if she is his only wife.. secret marriages will never produce this level of love and companionship.. which can exist not only between husband and wife but the wives as well.

                    Also..why does everyone assume that polgyny is done for the wrong reasons? I know many many good brothers who have done it for good and commendable reasons and with full support of their other wife/wives.

                    The problem is not polygyny.. the problem is the way it is practiced.. regardless of location.. Polygyny is actually more normal in society than monogamy is..
                    .The Prophet sal Allahu alaiyhi wa sallam said, “I guarantee a house in Jannah for one who gives up arguing, even if he is in the right; and I guarantee a home in the middle of Jannah for one who abandons lying even for the sake of fun; and I guarantee a house in the highest part of Jannah for one who has good manners.”
                    http://jameelah61.wordpress.com/

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                    • #55
                      Re: Secret 2nd wives and double lives

                      Originally posted by carol_au View Post
                      SubhanAllah.. why does everyone ahttp://www.ummah.com/forum/newreply.php?do=newreply&p=4476573ssume that a man marrying a second wife will break the first wife's heart.. what breaks her heart is a man not doing it properly.. a real man can treat each wife as if she is his only wife.. secret marriages will never produce this level of love and companionship.. which can exist not only between husband and wife but the wives as well.

                      Also..why does everyone assume that polgyny is done for the wrong reasons? I know many many good brothers who have done it for good and commendable reasons and with full support of their other wife/wives.

                      The problem is not polygyny.. the problem is the way it is practiced.. regardless of location.. Polygyny is actually more normal in society than monogamy is..
                      well said. Especially the bold.

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                      • #56
                        Re: Secret 2nd wives and double lives

                        Originally posted by carol_au View Post
                        Yes.. but even with a misyar marriage.. it is not meant to be a secret marriage.. even if the new wife agrees to give up things .. the marriage must still be announced and the first person who should know about it is the first wife or other wives.

                        and even a misyar marriage is only misyar for as long as the wife is happy for it.. she has every right to ask for her rights to be given her at any time.. although if it was written in the nikah then that may need a new contract ?
                        announcing the nikkah could be telling the whole world, or just holding a small walimah for a few friends, this would also be announcing it so it isn't necessary to tell the first wife, though a brother would be dumb not to.

                        as for misyar and taking back clauses in the contract, it is slightly more complicated than this as as of themselves all the clauses are halal in a marriage so the wife couldn't remove the clauses without permission of both parties in the contract, same as any other contract.

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                        • #57
                          Re: Secret 2nd wives and double lives

                          I just wanted to comment on this thread quickly. Please, I am not looking for any arguments here. I am simply stating my own experience.

                          When I was married before, my husband worked 7 days a week often. He had a job with odd hours, so could be day or night. Sometimes he was out of the house for 16 or 18 hours a day. I always assumed he was working or doing something work related, or maybe with friends or doing whatever he wanted to do. He would sometimes say he was going out with a friend. That was fine. What was important to me was that he would call 45 minutes prior to coming home so that I could have food ready and be dressed or whatever needed to be done (I don't like being surprised). As far as finances, I have no idea how much money my husband made exactly. We had separate bank accounts. It may have helped that I had my own money, so I could buy pretty much what I wanted as far as extras, but I also helped out buying stuff for the household sometimes, too, because I wanted to. What I do know is that the things he was supposed to pay for, he paid for them on time always. We had a decent place to live and good food, nice furnishings, etc. I had no reason to ask about money, where it was going or what the amount was. I have no idea if he had a second wife. I never asked. I assume he didn't because he never mentioned it. My point is, it is possible for a man to have a second wife without lying about it. Some women, like me, don't even ask what's going on as long as everything is okay at home. Call me stupid if you want, but that's my personality. If he had a second wife and I found out about it, why would it bother me? I mean, it wasn't affecting my life in any way. I had everything I needed and I was well taken care of, so why should I be bothered if I found out? Anyway, that was my experience.

                          About announcing the marriage, what if the woman lives in a different city or country? Would it not be acceptable to announce the marriage locally (where the woman is from) and announce to her people only?

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                          • #58
                            Re: Secret 2nd wives and double lives

                            Originally posted by abu_fulan_fulan View Post
                            announcing the nikkah could be telling the whole world, or just holding a small walimah for a few friends, this would also be announcing it so it isn't necessary to tell the first wife, though a brother would be dumb not to.
                            I find a first wife never even knowing that there's a second wife, completely strange. We're not talking about asking for permission here, just her being aware of it. Her rights to her husband would automatically change if this was the case, so it's important n only fair that she's up to speed. Its highly necessary, in fact.
                            Allah's Messenger :saw: said: "Allah the Exalted said: I live in the thought of My servant and I am with him as he remembers Me. When he draws near Me by the span of his hand, I draw near him by the length of a cubit, and when he draws near Me by the length of a cubit, I draw near him by the length of a fathom, and when he draws near Me walking I draw close to him running." (Al-Bukhari)

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                            • #59
                              Re: Secret 2nd wives and double lives

                              Originally posted by Sister_2009 View Post
                              My point is, it is possible for a man to have a second wife without lying about it.
                              Not really sis. Despite working long hours, ur husb must get some sleep each night, yeah? Well he'd have to make up some sort of lie/excuse if he didn't return home n was spending the night with the other wife.
                              Surely, on such cases, you'd ask ur husb y he hadn't come home at night (out of concern)?? You'd therefore require an answer - which would inevitably be a lie if he was keeping the second marriage a secret.
                              Allah's Messenger :saw: said: "Allah the Exalted said: I live in the thought of My servant and I am with him as he remembers Me. When he draws near Me by the span of his hand, I draw near him by the length of a cubit, and when he draws near Me by the length of a cubit, I draw near him by the length of a fathom, and when he draws near Me walking I draw close to him running." (Al-Bukhari)

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                              • #60
                                Re: Secret 2nd wives and double lives

                                Secret marriages will never end well.

                                I knew of someone who was married to a British convert, he had 5 kids with her and then he went back to his home country and secretly married for the 2nd time. His 2nd wife was left to live in his parents house. Apparently his reason for marrying his 2nd wife was that he thought his first wife was going to run away and leave him with the kids. So he used to fly back to his home country a couple of times a year I think, and tell wife #1 that he was going to Saudi.
                                She must've figured it out at some point, these things never stay secret for long.

                                Eventually his 1st wife DID leave him but she took the kids with her, became an apostate and told the police that he was a child abuser (false allegation). He hasn't seen his children in 12 years. They have been raised as kuffar and as far as they are concerned, their father and his family are "dead" to them.

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