A "deviant" father as a walee nikkah

[Alicia]

Salaam to all.

A father is a Muslim, he prays, sometime dzikr but he also deeply involved in witchcraft (he often visits an "uleema" who is also recognized as Muslim, but obviously use jinn as his helper for example asking for future prediction, asking the solution for some problems using piece of Qur'anic verse which is written in paper, etc), actually it's a common practice in a country like Indonesia & some part of Malaysia. The daughter has reminded him many times, that these practices are forbidden in Islam but he stands firm and keep such a practice, he just like a Muslim by culture (Wallahu A'lam). She has browsed the fatwa no. 2127 in islam-qa.com http://islam-qa.com/en/ref/2127/guardian, regarding the condition of walee.

But she still confused, with such characteristic, is her father eligible to be her guardian (walee) in time she gets married?

Any sound reply (with proof sunnah or Qur'an) or simply an opinion is very much appreciated.

Thank you.

[~Malaika~]

Re: A "deviant" father as a walee nikkah

I'm not 100% sure, but I think practicing Sihr, and knowing it's haraam, but still refusing to give it up, makes you an unbeliever. I would get a different walee.

[.mirror.]

Re: A "deviant" father as a walee nikkah

:wswrwb:
What exactly is he doing?

From the sounds of it, he might be going to ulemas who make taweez, which is permissible, I believe.

[~Malaika~]

Re: A "deviant" father as a walee nikkah

:wswrwb:
What exactly is he doing?

From the sounds of it, he might be going to ulemas who make taweez, which is permissible, I believe.

She said he goes to Jinn for predictions of the future or solutions to problems. That's not permissible...

[.mirror.]

Re: A "deviant" father as a walee nikkah

Hmm...true.

I think the real cause of the problem is the other ulema; the father is just following blindly, I think.

Sister, whoever this is, can you not try to get a scholar or Imam to contact the father?

[abu_fulan_fulan]

Re: A "deviant" father as a walee nikkah

assalaamu alaykum,

if the allegations are true, and he practices sihr then his emaan is questionable and she should speak to a qadi or mufti about appointing her another wali from her family or if not willing or able to do from her family then from the community.

even being a fasiq makes you questionable as wali, but if the person is involved in matters of kufr akbar certainly not safe to entrust your interests to him.

being a wali is not a right of the father, its a right of the daughter to have someone trustworthy see to her affairs. its a duty for the father and if the person is not fit then should be removed, though it is not the woman who removes the wali but a legitimate islamic authority.

[Alicia]

Re: A "deviant" father as a walee nikkah

:wswrwb:
What exactly is he doing?

From the sounds of it, he might be going to ulemas who make taweez, which is permissible, I believe.

Well, actually anytime he got a problem in a daily life simply like loosing some important stuff (wallet, money etc), he would go to this 'uleema' to help him to find, and then the uleema will say that this stuff is here and here bla bla bla ...he also gave the father to do something like spreading salt from him, or wrote some part of Qur;anic verse and asked the father to out it under the bed etc etc.

And one thing, in the past he also visited some 'magician' who claimed themselves as ulema to stop his daughter from being married to a good man, he didint like the man who proposed her daughter due to race difference.

[Alicia]

Re: A "deviant" father as a walee nikkah

Hmm...true.

I think the real cause of the problem is the other ulema; the father is just following blindly, I think.

Sister, whoever this is, can you not try to get a scholar or Imam to contact the father?

Well, sometime we make compromise and said the the one is just following blindly and we can't blame him. her. But what if the daughter has reminded him many times about the prohibition of such things but he stands firm. Does he still categorized as 'following blindly'?

I'm bit confused in this case. The warning has come to the father but he put deaf ear and blind eyes. I don't think we can consider him as blind follower anymore after frequent warning came. What do you think? Correct me if I'm wrong.

[Alicia]

Re: A "deviant" father as a walee nikkah

assalaamu alaykum,

being a wali is not a right of the father, its a right of the daughter to have someone trustworthy see to her affairs. its a duty for the father and if the person is not fit then should be removed, though it is not the woman who removes the wali but a legitimate islamic authority.

She must be relieving to know your answer, that being walee is not the right of father but the daughter. But is it true? because I couldn't find any hadiths regarding this, please let me know ... . Well, what if the society where she lives is deeply involved in such things, almost all of them, I prefer to call them ...Muslim cultural rather than Muslim intellectual and yes I agreed with .mirror. that most of them are blind follower.

And sorry to say that many Muslim in Indonesia is just involve in such things. Hinduism has long history in Indonesia and up till now many still practice or at least mixing Muslim culture with Hindu elements.

She is really in big dilemma, before she got education from Malaysia where Muslim is more 'intellect' then she just learnt that the society where she lived was really corrupt (regarding practicing Islamic value). And she now doesn't want to roll back, anytime she asked the opinion from elders or someone who seems to be respectable in society where she was born, she just got the same answer, ... "parents are always right and you can't move on without their consent".

Anyway, thanks for your answer.

[Alicia]

Re: A "deviant" father as a walee nikkah

She said he goes to Jinn for predictions of the future or solutions to problems. That's not permissible...

definitely Malaika, he prays but at the same time he practicing such things ... . thx for your reply

[neelu]

Re: A "deviant" father as a walee nikkah

Yeh involvement in sihr, using jinns and fortune telling are not minor sins- these are major major problems that would put a question mark over his imaan and also a question mark over his suitability as a wali. Doesn't she have any other close male Muslim relatives? Even if they are not very religious but still concerned for her welfare and not committing major sins or shirk. Ideally the wali should be a close family member so if her father is unsuitable then a grandfather, one of her parent's brothers or her own brother if he has reached adulthood and is mature enough to take responsibility.

[abu_fulan_fulan]

Re: A "deviant" father as a walee nikkah

She must be relieving to know your answer, that being walee is not the right of father but the daughter. But is it true? because I couldn't find any hadiths regarding this, please let me know ... . Well, what if the society where she lives is deeply involved in such things, almost all of them, I prefer to call them ...Muslim cultural rather than Muslim intellectual and yes I agreed with .mirror. that most of them are blind follower.

And sorry to say that many Muslim in Indonesia is just involve in such things. Hinduism has long history in Indonesia and up till now many still practice or at least mixing Muslim culture with Hindu elements.

She is really in big dilemma, before she got education from Malaysia where Muslim is more 'intellect' then she just learnt that the society where she lived was really corrupt (regarding practicing Islamic value). And she now doesn't want to roll back, anytime she asked the opinion from elders or someone who seems to be respectable in society where she was born, she just got the same answer, ... "parents are always right and you can't move on without their consent".

Anyway, thanks for your answer.

What I meant was it is the right of the daughter to have a good wali to look after her interests. if that is not the father then she needs to go to a qadi to have him removed, this is her right under an islamic state... the problem is indonesia is a muslim state, not an islamic one so maybe the qadi will not do his job but it is worth persuing that way first.

If the qadi will not remove the father as wali, then she should approach a trustworthy sheikh, known for being a leader in the community like we have to do in the west, but I would hope the matters in her community have not become this bad.

Some fathers think this is their right, they get this power and no one can take it from them, this is not true, sisters have a right to remove the rather as wali if he is no good, and certainly if involved in shirk.

[.mirror.]

Re: A "deviant" father as a walee nikkah

Well, sometime we make compromise and said the the one is just following blindly and we can't blame him. her. But what if the daughter has reminded him many times about the prohibition of such things but he stands firm. Does he still categorized as 'following blindly'?

I'm bit confused in this case. The warning has come to the father but he put deaf ear and blind eyes. I don't think we can consider him as blind follower anymore after frequent warning came. What do you think? Correct me if I'm wrong.

Hmmm...

I think he's ignoring the daughter because she's just that, her daughter. That's why he's not giving her that much attention. If an aalim or Imam from the masjid speaks to him, then he might listen. She should go/or send someone to get the Imam from the masjid to speak to him. :insha:

May Allah guide him and the other ulema.