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  • #31
    Re: marriage situation

    Originally posted by Ahmed<--me! View Post

    Oh and you absolutely cannot marry a non-Muslim. This marriage would be invalid in Islam and you would then be committing Zina, these would be major sins.
    Absolutely not. It is permissible for a Muslim man to marry a woman from the People of the Book.
    http://www.islamqa.com/en/ref/21380

    Salam

    Comment


    • #32
      Re: marriage situation

      Sorry I assumed you meant atheist. Yes I know you can marry from the 'People of the Book' but it should be noted that scholars have said that the beliefs of some Christians etc have changed so that they have now become polytheists. So because of that they are not from the 'People of the Book'. This is mentioned in askImam and in many other sources. Here is a quote:

      In principle a Muslim man may marry a Christian or Jewish woman. However many present day Christians and Jews only classify themselves to be Christians or Jews whereas their beliefs are not in conformity to their respective religions. As such it will not be permissible to marry such women.

      Source: http://www.askimam.org/fatwa/fatwa.p...74e8330a01b626
      Originally posted by poihhiopscic View Post
      Absolutely not. It is permissible for a Muslim man to marry a woman from the People of the Book.
      http://www.islamqa.com/en/ref/21380

      Salam
      It is 100% agreed in Islam that if you marry someone for their looks you will be a loser. This is mentioned below in the Hadith where the Prophet :saw: said women are married for four things. Have you also considered that only Muslim and Muslimahs will enter Paradise, so your marriage to this person will only be for this world, then if she stays in disbelief she will amongs those in Hell. So you won't meet her in Paradise so basically what's the point? It's not as if you don't have Muslim women to choose from?

      Click on the source below for some added info.

      The first thing we should look for when marrying is how committed the person is to Islam. Prophet Muhammad (sallallahu alayhi was sallam) said, "A woman is normally sought as a wife for her wealth, beauty, nobility, or religiousness (adherence to Islam), but choose a religious woman and you will prosper. " (Muslim) And he said, "A woman is married for four things, i.e., her wealth, her family status, her beauty and her religion. You should marry the religious woman (otherwise) you will be a loser. "(Bukhari) And he said, "The whole world is a provision, and the best object of benefit of the world is the pious woman. " (Muslim)

      Source:http://www.sunnipath.com/Library/Art...R00000213.aspx#
      Last edited by Ahmed<--me!; 02-07-11, 09:31 PM.
      Please include me in your Dua.

      Comment


      • #33
        Re: marriage situation

        Originally posted by Ahmed<--me! View Post
        Have you also considered that only Muslim and Muslimahs will enter Paradise, so your marriage to this person will only be for this world, then if she stays in disbelief she will amongs those in Hell. So you won't meet her in Paradise so basically what's the point? It's not as if you don't have Muslim women to choose from?
        Actually, absolutely no one can tell if they will end up in heaven or hell, whether you're a Muslim, a Christian, a Buddhist or anything else. Simply because there's no way you can tell which deen you will die on, and what answers you will give to the Angels who will question you. So I am not sure it is correct to base your decision on this. You may also be a Muslim who repeats shahada 5 times a day without really believing it, or without quite the right understanding of it. Does this make you a dweller of jannah? Who knows, really?

        I completely agree with the rest, Ahmed.

        Salam

        Comment


        • #34
          Re: marriage situation

          1. Brother the only thing I've said wrong is that I should have said: "only Muslims and Muslimahs will enter heaven after the law of the Prophet Muhammed :saw: was passed". This means after the Prophet Muhammed :saw: only Muslims and Muslimahs will enter Paradise. The Christians, Sabians, Jews who don't believe in the Prophet Muhammed :saw: will not enter heaven, this would include all current Christians. The Christians, Sabians, Jews before the prophet Muhammed :saw: will be rewarded because Allah says (interpretation of the meaning):

          Verily, those who believe and those who are Jews and Christians, and Sabians, whoever believes in Allaah and the Last Day and do righteous good deeds shall have their reward with their Lord, on them shall be no fear, nor shall they grieve. [al-Baqarah 2:62]

          Surely, those who believe, those who are the Jews and the Sabians and the Christians – whosoever believed in Allaah and the Last Day, and worked righteousness, on them shall be no fear, nor shall they grieve. [al-Maa’idah 5:69]


          As far as the Jews are concerning, their faith meant believing in the Tawraat (original Torah) and following the way of Moosa (peace be upon him) until ‘Eesa came, after which whoever continued to follow the Torah and the way of Moosa, and did not leave this and follow ‘Eesa, was doomed. As far as the Christians are concerned, their faith meant believing in the Injeel (original Gospel) and following the laws of ‘Eesa; whoever did this was a believer whose faith was acceptable to Allaah, until Muhammad (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) came, after which whoever did not follow Muhammad (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) and leave the way of ‘Eesa and the Injeel that he had been following before, was doomed.

          Read this source below for more explanation on this.

          Source: http://www.islam-qa.com/en/ref/2912/...ter%20paradise
          “Verily, those who disbelieve (in the religion of Islam, the Qur’aan and Prophet Muhammad) from among the people of the Scripture (Jews and Christians) and Al-Mushrikoon will abide in the fire of Hell. They are the worst of creatures”

          [al-Bayyinah 98:6]


          2. Of course you must die in a state of Islam. I hinted at this in my previous post brother about this woman you want to marry: "if she stays in disbelief she will amongs those in Hell". You see here I am not judging her by saying 'she will enter hell no matter what', instead I am saying she could revert and become a Muslimah. However, if she stays in disbelief she will enter Hell, which is a statement of fact. How can a person who stays in disbelief enter heaven?

          3.
          The aayah (interpretation of the meaning), “And whoever seeks a religion other than Islam, it will never be accepted of him, and in the Hereafter he will be one of the losers” [Aal ‘Imraan 3:85] is a statement that Allaah will not accept any way or deed from anyone, after sending His Final Messenger, except those that are in accordance with the laws of Muhammad (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him). Prior to this, however, anyone who followed the Prophet of his own time was on the Straight Path of salvation. So the Jews were those who followed Moosa (peace be upon him) and referred to the Tawraat for judgement at that time. When Allaah sent ‘Eesa (peace be upon him), the Children of Israel were obliged to follow him and obey him, and so they and others who followed him became Christians.. When Allaah sent Muhammad (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him), as the Final Prophet and a Messenger to all the children of Adam, all of mankind was obliged to believe in him and obey him, and refrain from what he prohibited. Those who did so are the true believers. The ummah (nation) of Muhammad (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) are called the believers because of their deep eemaan (faith) and conviction, and because they believe in all the past Prophets and in the prophesied events that are yet to come.”

          Source and more info:

          http://www.islam-qa.com/en/ref/2912/...ter%20paradise
          4. I have read some members say that they read on Islamqa that all Muslims and Muslimahs will enter paradise but some may have to serve time in Hell for their sins, they say they read it on Islamqa but I haven't found that yet.

          Originally posted by poihhiopscic View Post
          Actually, absolutely no one can tell if they will end up in heaven or hell, whether you're a Muslim, a Christian, a Buddhist or anything else. Simply because there's no way you can tell which deen you will die on, and what answers you will give to the Angels who will question you. So I am not sure it is correct to base your decision on this. You may also be a Muslim who repeats shahada 5 times a day without really believing it, or without quite the right understanding of it. Does this make you a dweller of jannah? Who knows, really?

          I completely agree with the rest, Ahmed.

          Salam
          Last edited by Ahmed<--me!; 02-07-11, 10:57 PM.
          Please include me in your Dua.

          Comment


          • #35
            Re: marriage situation

            double post.
            Please include me in your Dua.

            Comment


            • #36
              Re: marriage situation

              Thanks Ahmed for these very clear explanations.
              My point was about something different, namely that it seems tricky to me to tell someone to marry a Muslim rather than a Christian because this way they will have their Muslim wife by their side in Jannah ; and this is tricky because no one can have any assurance that they will end up in Jannah, no matter what their current state is, as the state that matters is the one that prevails at the time of your death, and no one can predict it but Allah swt if I'm not mistaken.

              If I were the OP, I would first and foremost marry someone I can feel comfortable with. As a convert, it might be a better idea to marry a Christian woman he feels comfortable with, rather than a Muslim with an Eastern culture which often creates a lot of problems and misunderstandings, since he can't tell which of the two will end up in Jannah, maybe none, and maybe he won't either... so this kind of gambling seems questionable to me. That's what I was trying to say.

              Salam

              Comment


              • #37
                Re: marriage situation

                Originally posted by poihhiopscic View Post
                Thanks Ahmed for these very clear explanations.
                My point was about something different, namely that it seems tricky to me to tell someone to marry a Muslim rather than a Christian because this way they will have their Muslim wife by their side in Jannah ; and this is tricky because no one can have any assurance that they will end up in Jannah, no matter what their current state is, as the state that matters is the one that prevails at the time of your death, and no one can predict it but Allah swt if I'm not mistaken.

                If I were the OP, I would first and foremost marry someone I can feel comfortable with. As a convert, it might be a better idea to marry a Christian woman he feels comfortable with, rather than a Muslim with an Eastern culture which often creates a lot of problems and misunderstandings, since he can't tell which of the two will end up in Jannah, maybe none, and maybe he won't either... so this kind of gambling seems questionable to me. That's what I was trying to say.

                Salam
                I'm trying to understand how marrying a Christian woman helps the situation, but I don't get it... The OP hasn't even started praying regularly, and though he realises that this is wrong and wants to change, this is still the case. Marrying a Muslimah who helps and motivates him through her appreciating his belief in Allah, and shows this through her practice of Islam overrides any notion of marrying some Christian just cause you feel "comfortable" with her. Not all Muslims come from an "Eastern culture" either; a lot of Muslims were born in the "West" and raised here, not to mention the many reverts Alhamdulillah.

                As for who will end up in Jannah, the fact is if you're a Muslim who believes in , you cannot be compared to some unbeliever. Sure, Allah knows what is in people's hearts and it maybe so that Allah flings them into Jahannum, but its makes absolutely no sense to compare a practicing Muslim (i.e. the OP should marry someone who at least prays Salaah) to an unbeliever; suspicion is something not entertained in Islam. Rationally, you can only judge on whats apparent. No one is saying the OP should go and marry some random Muslimah without thinking it through at all.
                Ya Muqallib al-Quloob, thabbit qalbi 'alaa Deenik
                O' Converter of Hearts, make my heart steadfast upon Thy Way
                We can easily forgive a child who is afraid of the dark; the real tragedy of life is when men are afraid of the light.

                Comment


                • #38
                  Re: marriage situation

                  Originally posted by Safiya View Post
                  I'm trying to understand how marrying a Christian woman helps the situation, but I don't get it... The OP hasn't even started praying regularly, and though he realises that this is wrong and wants to change, this is still the case. Marrying a Muslimah who helps and motivates him through her appreciating his belief in Allah, and shows this through her practice of Islam overrides any notion of marrying some Christian just cause you feel "comfortable" with her. Not all Muslims come from an "Eastern culture" either; a lot of Muslims were born in the "West" and raised here, not to mention the many reverts Alhamdulillah.

                  As for who will end up in Jannah, the fact is if you're a Muslim who believes in , you cannot be compared to some unbeliever. Sure, Allah knows what is in people's hearts and it maybe so that Allah flings them into Jahannum, but its makes absolutely no sense to compare a practicing Muslim (i.e. the OP should marry someone who at least prays Salaah) to an unbeliever; suspicion is something not entertained in Islam. Rationally, you can only judge on whats apparent. No one is saying the OP should go and marry some random Muslimah without thinking it through at all.
                  I definitely agree with you that it's better to marry a Muslim is the reason behind this choice is to benefit from mutual spiritual support. Yet many Muslims were born in the 'West' but still have families from the 'East' with overly encroaching mothers, authoritarian fathers, and invasive brothers/aunts for Western standards. This had led many marriages to a divorce in no time. I'm not saying it is a general rule, just pointing out that I have seen it happen quite a lot with my own eyes.
                  This is why I feel it is still better though not ideal to marry a non-Muslim wife who gives you no hassle and lets you focus on your prayers and spiritual life while satisfying your emotional and intimate needs hence alleviating satanic pressures that divert you from your worship, than to marry a Muslim wife thereby 'marrying her family' as it were, if mindsets are too different for this marriage to be viable (and this is often not so obvious from the outset).

                  But I maintain that making this choice in the hope that the couple will be reunited in Jannah is not something rational, nor does it seem islamically correct, as no human being can know where they will end up, heaven or hell, and this includes practising Muslims, who should never take their status with Allah swt for granted.
                  Last edited by poihhiopscic; 03-07-11, 01:17 PM.

                  Comment


                  • #39
                    Re: marriage situation

                    Originally posted by poihhiopscic View Post
                    I definitely agree with you that it's better to marry a Muslim is the reason behind this choice is to benefit from mutual spiritual support. Yet many Muslims were born in the 'West' but still have families from the 'East' with overly encroaching mothers, authoritarian fathers, and invasive brothers/aunts for Western standards. This had led many marriages to a divorce in no time. I'm not saying it is a general rule, just pointing out that I have seen it happen quite a lot with my own eyes.
                    This is why I feel it is still better though not ideal to marry a non-Muslim wife who gives you no hassle and lets you focus on your prayers and spiritual life while satisfying your emotional and intimate needs hence alleviating satanic pressures that divert you from your worship, than to marry a Muslim wife thereby 'marrying her family' as it were, if mindsets are too different for this marriage to be viable (and this is often not so obvious from the outset).

                    But I maintain that making this choice in the hope that the couple will be reunited in Jannah is not something rational, nor does it seem islamically correct, as no human being can know where they will end up, heaven or hell, and this includes practising Muslims, who should never take their status with Allah swt for granted.
                    With all due respect, I still can't appreciate your argument. Mehh... excuse the length... =O

                    Perhaps it would help if we were to be realistic here... In Islam, when you get married according to the Qur'an and Sunnah, you would meet via Islamic means; i.e. you would never date and all your conversations will occur in the presence - or, as some say, with the approval - of the female's wali. A few conditions to note when it comes to marrying a person from the People of the Book, is that they must be chaste, a sincere believer of their respective faith, and any discussions pertaining to the matter of marriage (or any conversation, really) should be conducted via the approval of the wali, as mentioned above. Because these conditions are met so rarely and due to the degree to which the People of the Book's books have been changed, many scholars consider this not really practicable nowadays; but, by all means, if the above conditions are met, I can appreciate an argument for it. Have a read of Abu Mubarak's thread here.

                    Considering that your argument was weighing up the possibility of meeting a Muslimah from an Eastern background, who values Islam enough to keep her culture out of it when it goes against Islam or becomes too encroaching on her husband right to decide whats best for his family, to finding some non-Muslim woman who may actually meet the above conditions... I think you're mistaken in thinking the chance so low. When people are practicing (well, now that more younger people are practicing, Alhamdulillah), they look for someone practicing who can deal with having all these issues around them; whether it be pressures from non-Muslim family, (un-Islamically, where it applies) culturally minded family, or merely just living in the "West" with all its fitnah (not that is only applies to the "West"... Furthermore, it's not like one would just marry without even knowing the person and their intentions for after they marry; its a lot easier for men, too, they get to exercise their rights much easier and you could even move away from your wife's family - agreeing to this prior to marriage, as many do.

                    You do realise that they may end up having children and whilst he is out working, the non-Muslim mother will raise the child and be with the child for very many more hours than the Muslim father? Not to forget that not all non-Muslims have non-interfering parents, and things change once people have a child - their views and such can change quite a bit (hence why I'm all for using your brain before one gets married). This would be, effectively, putting the child's Deen at risk... all for some perceived "comfort".

                    I don't how everyone thinks, but what happens if he ends up becoming more practicing and starts learning more about Islam... would it not bother him that his wife may choose not observe hijaab? That she has absolutely no interest in becoming a Muslim? Maybe some people don't need their spouse to appreciate what they're living for, their whole purpose for being in this temporary Dunya, but I can't imagine how that sort of marriage would last long...

                    Regarding the bold, I still maintain my stance and reasoning in the last post - which, funnily enough, I find rational, lol. I do have a question for you, though... What is the point of Allah specifically addressing the Muslims with this "yaa ayyuhal ladheena amanu"? Allah has made the distinction. There would really be no point to declaring or indeed practicing Islam, if we didn't believe that these words and our acceptance of them in our hearts may get us to Jannah... The emphasis is on "may", but this is not of the same probability as compared to a non-Muslim who cannot even declare . Like I said before, I recognise that we can only judge people according to their apparent condition right now (this is something we can't really help) and that, one who is a Muslim may be so now but then may die a non-believer, yet we have to remember that we would actually be marrying at a specific point in time and so should exercise our (Allah given) intellect in that given time... After all, wAllahu 'Alam what can happen in a mere moment.
                    Ya Muqallib al-Quloob, thabbit qalbi 'alaa Deenik
                    O' Converter of Hearts, make my heart steadfast upon Thy Way
                    We can easily forgive a child who is afraid of the dark; the real tragedy of life is when men are afraid of the light.

                    Comment


                    • #40
                      Re: marriage situation

                      Very good points about inter-religious marriage, although the many problems I've seen in intercultural marriages still make me wonder which option would more realistic. I guess we can't generalise, so there's probably no definitive answer to that.

                      Regarding your question, in your quote Allah swt addresses those who believe 'now', which implies absolutely nothing about whether they will die on Islam and end up in Jannah. I guess I see your point, the best way to maximise your chances to dwell in Jannah for ever with your wife from dunya would be to marry a Muslim wife, hoping that both you and her will die as Muslims. But to me this just sounds like gambling. Not to mention that there are higher rewards to hope for than just living with your dunya wife in heaven... like seeing Allah's Face and being in His Presence for example? So planning your marriage and a life-long partnership around this notion of heavenly relationship does not sound like a good idea to me.
                      Since one of the means to satisfy Allah swt (and hence, access Jannah) is a stable relationship which puts you in the right frame of mind for your worship in all its spiritual, social and other dimensions, why not give priority to these criteria rather than making sure that your wife thinks (or thinks that she thinks) the same as you religion-wise? Wouldn't this give your more 'chances' of avoiding hellfire than simply marrying into the community as your top priority?
                      But I understand if other people disagree with this... I guess it's a matter of priorities, to some extent.

                      PS: I'm obviously still talking about a case where he would have the choice between a respectful, open-minded Christian he gets along very well with, and a Muslim with a different cultural background.
                      Last edited by poihhiopscic; 03-07-11, 06:07 PM.

                      Comment


                      • #41
                        Re: marriage situation

                        He didn't tell us she's respectful and neither did he tell us whether she is chaste, or a sincere practicing Christian/Jew.

                        Personally, I think people over-exaggerate the whole culture issue... It's up to you to find out as much as you can about who you're marrying beforehand and agree upon how you will deal with things. Sure, there have been very big issues with some families that I've noticed, but usually its with those who let their parents choose someone for them without giving their own input, those who got married through a haraam relationship and ended up getting too attached to say no, or those who were once not very religious (i.e. when they got married) and then became religious after and it started affecting them, etc..

                        There's a huge difference between marrying someone from a (non-Islamically, where it applies) cultural family, compared to marrying a non-Muslim. At the end of the day, its the girl from that family he would marry or the non-Muslim. Marriage isn't there to just relieve your desires, its meant to be more than that.

                        Forget the idea of some "heavenly" relationship in Jannah... its enough that Rasulullah :saw: stressed that when one seeks a spouse, they make the person's Deen their priority; the "heavenly" relationship would merely be an aim.

                        I feel sorry for the children born in such relationships, in these times.
                        Ya Muqallib al-Quloob, thabbit qalbi 'alaa Deenik
                        O' Converter of Hearts, make my heart steadfast upon Thy Way
                        We can easily forgive a child who is afraid of the dark; the real tragedy of life is when men are afraid of the light.

                        Comment


                        • #42
                          Re: marriage situation

                          Originally posted by poihhiopscic View Post
                          I disagree, I think marriage can help relieve a lot of the psychological/spiritual stress caused by repressed sexual urges. It is a 1000 times easier to pray when you don't get distracted by other thoughts, and a crave for women is obviously one of these distracting thoughts.
                          Assalamu Alaykum. Please private message me in regards to your marriage issue about herpes.

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