Ads by Muslim Ad Network

Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Niqaab....?

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Re: Niqaab....?

    See, this is the sort of reasoning that spoils the whole argument. There are two problems with this logic:

    1. The idea that it's sometimes permissible for a man to see a woman's face, but never permissible for a woman to show her face to a man, makes no sense.

    2. The idea that it's fard for a woman to cover or refrain from doing anything that might, conceivably, cause someone, somewhere to feel attraction towards her (when he shouldn't have been looking in the first place) is a slippery slope, and not supported by evidence.

    In areas of KSA where all women cover their faces, women are seen as 'fair game' if they don't cover their eyes. If she covers her entire face, but leave the house unaccompanied, she's still a 'fitnah'. This has no basis in Islam, but it's what happens when men are taught that it's the responsibility of women to keep them from ever feeling desire, rather than their own responsibility to lower their gaze and control themselves.

    The rule, depending on one's view, is either 'cover everything but the face and hands and behave in a proper manner' or 'cover everything and behave in a proper manner'. The rule is not 'if a man is attracted to you, you've automatically done something wrong'. That requires women to be mind readers.

    Comment


    • Re: Niqaab....?

      Originally posted by PurpleMuslimah View Post
      See, this is the sort of reasoning that spoils the whole argument. There are two problems with this logic:

      1. The idea that it's sometimes permissible for a man to see a woman's face, but never permissible for a woman to show her face to a man, makes no sense.

      2. The idea that it's fard for a woman to cover or refrain from doing anything that might, conceivably, cause someone, somewhere to feel attraction towards her (when he shouldn't have been looking in the first place) is a slippery slope, and not supported by evidence.

      In areas of KSA where all women cover their faces, women are seen as 'fair game' if they don't cover their eyes. If she covers her entire face, but leave the house unaccompanied, she's still a 'fitnah'. This has no basis in Islam, but it's what happens when men are taught that it's the responsibility of women to keep them from ever feeling desire, rather than their own responsibility to lower their gaze and control themselves.

      The rule, depending on one's view, is either 'cover everything but the face and hands and behave in a proper manner' or 'cover everything and behave in a proper manner'. The rule is not 'if a man is attracted to you, you've automatically done something wrong'. That requires women to be mind readers.
      1. It's only allowed in certain conditions and vice versa [If I am not wrong].

      2. It's vice versa and it is supported by evidence. If people don't have the qualifications to understand the Qur'aan, Sunnah, Ijmaa' and Qiyaas then not Islam's problem.

      If culture does not follow Islam then too bad the sinful is the one who does not follow Islam.
      Last edited by IbnulQayyim; 28-03-11, 01:18 AM.
      Reported by Ibn al-Salah:

      ولقد أحسن الحسن بن أبي زياد اللؤلؤي صاحب أبي حنيفة فيما بلغنا عنه أنه استفتي في مسألة فأخطأ فيها ولم يعرف الذي أفتاه فاكترى مناديا فنادى أن الحسن بن أبي زياد استفتي يوم كذا وكذا في مسألة فأخطأ فمن كان أفتاه الحسن بن أبي زياد بشيء فليرجع إليه
      فلبث أياما لا يفتي حتى وجد صاحب الفتوى فأعلمه أنه أخطأ وإن الصواب كذا وكذا والله أعلم

      Comment


      • Re: Niqaab....?

        Originally posted by IbnulQayyim View Post


        1. It's only allowed in certain conditions and vice versa [If I am not wrong].

        2. It's vice versa and it is supported by evidence. If people don't have the qualifications to understand the Qur'aan, Sunnah, Ijmaa' and Qiyaas then not Islam's problem.

        If culture does not follow Islam then too bad the sinful is the one who does not follow Islam.
        1. The scholar himself said that it's allowed in certain conditions, but since women can't read minds, the onus is on them to never allow a man to do something that may or may not be haram for him. Considering that "being looked at with desire" when one has done nothing to cause it isn't haram in the first place, that's some pretty twisted logic.

        2. Plenty of people whose qualifications exceed yours or mine believe it isn't, hence the debate in this thread. There are simply too many ahadith mentioning a woman being beautiful, or being recognized by her face, or otherwise implying that her face was uncovered, without any mention of the Prophet (saws) correcting her. They can't all be explained away, no matter how much some like to try.

        What I wrote about the culture in KSA is in keeping with the mentality of the section of the fatwa I quoted - i.e., if an action causes men fitnah, it's haram because it causes fitnah - regardless of what it is, and regardless of the fact that they shouldn't have been looking in the first place. That's what the fatwa says. By that logic, men there are perfectly correct to blame women for causing them fitnah by not covering their eyes, or venturing out unaccompanied, or driving a car.

        Fotunately, haram and halal are not determined by what's convenient for those so lacking in iman that a glimpse of a woman's face throws them into a moral crisis.

        Comment


        • Re: Niqaab....?

          Originally posted by PurpleMuslimah View Post
          1. The scholar himself said that it's allowed in certain conditions, but since women can't read minds, the onus is on them to never allow a man to do something that may or may not be haram for him. Considering that "being looked at with desire" when one has done nothing to cause it isn't haram in the first place, that's some pretty twisted logic.

          2. Plenty of people whose qualifications exceed yours or mine believe it isn't, hence the debate in this thread. There are simply too many ahadith mentioning a woman being beautiful, or being recognized by her face, or otherwise implying that her face was uncovered, without any mention of the Prophet (saws) correcting her. They can't all be explained away, no matter how much some like to try.

          What I wrote about the culture in KSA is in keeping with the mentality of the section of the fatwa I quoted - i.e., if an action causes men fitnah, it's haram because it causes fitnah - regardless of what it is, and regardless of the fact that they shouldn't have been looking in the first place. That's what the fatwa says. By that logic, men there are perfectly correct to blame women for causing them fitnah by not covering their eyes, or venturing out unaccompanied, or driving a car.

          Fotunately, haram and halal are not determined by what's convenient for those so lacking in iman that a glimpse of a woman's face throws them into a moral crisis.
          1. You should consult other 'Ulamaa if you're not sure of this scholar's answer. The Scholars on SunniForum are good, alhamdulillaah.

          2. The latter part of your statement here, well lets leave the explanation of Hadeeth to those who are qualified. There is Ikhtilaaf whether Niqaab is Fard or not.
          Reported by Ibn al-Salah:

          ولقد أحسن الحسن بن أبي زياد اللؤلؤي صاحب أبي حنيفة فيما بلغنا عنه أنه استفتي في مسألة فأخطأ فيها ولم يعرف الذي أفتاه فاكترى مناديا فنادى أن الحسن بن أبي زياد استفتي يوم كذا وكذا في مسألة فأخطأ فمن كان أفتاه الحسن بن أبي زياد بشيء فليرجع إليه
          فلبث أياما لا يفتي حتى وجد صاحب الفتوى فأعلمه أنه أخطأ وإن الصواب كذا وكذا والله أعلم

          Comment


          • Re: Niqaab....?

            Originally posted by IbnulQayyim View Post
            1. You should consult other 'Ulamaa if you're not sure of this scholar's answer. The Scholars on SunniForum are good, alhamdulillaah.

            2. The latter part of your statement here, well lets leave the explanation of Hadeeth to those who are qualified. There is Ikhtilaaf whether Niqaab is Fard or not.
            I understood what he said perfectly well, unless there's an issue with the translation. He stated that niqab is fard because it may cause fitnah for men to look at women.

            I can respect the view of someone who thinks it's fard based on a different interpretation of the exact meaning of a word in a verse, or a hadith - there may be legitimate grounds for disagreement there.

            However, his reasoning is that it's haram for men to ogle women (which is true), so it's fard upon women to do whatever is necessary to stop a man from ogling her, to the point that his sin becomes hers if she doesn't. That logic just doesn't work. It's like saying that because I don't have a burglar alarm, I'm to blame for the sin of someone who breaks in and steals from me, because I could have prevented it.

            Comment


            • Re: Niqaab....?

              Originally posted by PurpleMuslimah View Post
              However, his reasoning is that it's haram for men to ogle women (which is true), so it's fard upon women to do whatever is necessary to stop a man from ogling her, to the point that his sin becomes hers if she doesn't. That logic just doesn't work. It's like saying that because I don't have a burglar alarm, I'm to blame for the sin of someone who breaks in and steals from me, because I could have prevented it.
              Allaahu ta'aalaa a'lam. Allah knows best about that matter.

              Consult other 'Ulamaa about this.
              Reported by Ibn al-Salah:

              ولقد أحسن الحسن بن أبي زياد اللؤلؤي صاحب أبي حنيفة فيما بلغنا عنه أنه استفتي في مسألة فأخطأ فيها ولم يعرف الذي أفتاه فاكترى مناديا فنادى أن الحسن بن أبي زياد استفتي يوم كذا وكذا في مسألة فأخطأ فمن كان أفتاه الحسن بن أبي زياد بشيء فليرجع إليه
              فلبث أياما لا يفتي حتى وجد صاحب الفتوى فأعلمه أنه أخطأ وإن الصواب كذا وكذا والله أعلم

              Comment


              • Re: Niqaab....?

                Originally posted by BintelIisam View Post
                As-sallamu alikum

                Would men on this forum want their wives to wear niqaab? What do people think?
                And what you sisters think, if your husbands/finaces tell you that they want you to wear niqaab?
                Tbh I would like here to wear niqaab and for me she looks more pretty with it, if she doesn't want, I don't mind at all, it's her choice anyways!

                Comment


                • Re: Niqaab....?

                  Niqab is wajib

                  Comment

                  Working...
                  X