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    Needing 1st wife's consent for 2nd marriage

    Salam,

    It's been a looooong time since I looked up this issue so I can't remember the references off the top of my head. I'd appreciate it if someone can please post some evidences on this issue. There's a common misconception that the consent of the first wife is mandatory in order for a Muslim man to marry again. I'd prefer to have direct Q&S references on this matter rather than long fatwas but if a fatwa also contains and explains the evidences as well then I'd accept that as a source too. I'm not one of these people who's happy to just see a fatwa in which a sheikh just says "yes this is permitted" or "no that is not permitted" just because it's from a scholar, rather I prefer to see one in which the Q&S evidence is quoted as the basis of the fatwa and then explained. Hope you understand, jazakallah khayr.
    The Lyme Disease pandemic: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z5u73ME4sVU

    #2
    Re: Needing 1st wife's consent for 2nd marriage

    all the scholars response that I have seen is that the permission is not required and that is because there are no hadith that indicate that and the Qur'an does not either, so cant provide you proof lol

    except that we saw many sahaba or the prophet saws who simply decided to take more wives, we never heard them ask them or anything like that, so that is proof that it is not necessary

    the basic principle though is, that as marriage is a mutual contract, yes the husband has the right to marry more, but you cant force him to forgo his right, he can however choose to want only one wife

    if you are not happy with him marrying another wife, then you can simply stipulate this at time of marriage, if he changes his mind later and wants to marry another wife, you can choose to divorce him because your contract arrangements are broken, and all scholars agree that you can put this as condition before marriage that you want to be the only wife, but if he later wants to take another wife, you can choose to stay or leave
    " O you who have believed, do not follow the footsteps of Satan. And whoever follows the footsteps of Satan - indeed, he enjoins immorality and wrongdoing. And if not for the favor of Allah upon you and His mercy, not one of you would have been pure, ever, but Allah purifies whom He wills, and Allah is Hearing and Knowing. "
    Surah An-Nur, Verse 21

    Comment


      #3
      Re: Needing 1st wife's consent for 2nd marriage

      Jazakallah khayr, you've largely stated something I already knew but needed to be reminded about. I was commenting on a different blog in which someone happened to claim that a particular man went against Islamic rules by marrying a second wife without seeking the consent of the first and it made my blood boil. The poster didn't specify a gender or religion but I'm fairly sure it's a Muslim woman who doesn't know better and when I told her this was incorrect she accused me of wronging her *scratches head*. I don't normally take posts too personally but it put me in a foul mood and I had to set her straight. Here was my response:

      I don't want to bring this up as I don't want to digress so I'm hoping this will be my last post on the issue of polygamy in the Muslim community. I just felt Sam's post warranted some clarification.

      Sam,

      How have I wronged you? I just stated the facts and if there were any errors or inconsistencies in what I said then I'm disappointed that you didn't present any evidence to explain why. Do you even know how Islamic rules are derived in the first place? If not, then I'll explain it to you and if you see anything incorrect in my understanding of the issue then by all means correct me if I'm wrong.

      The first and primary source one can look at to find information on the Islamic rules of marriage and divorce is the Quran closely followed by Hadiths. The Quran is quite explicit in stating to Muslim men that they can "marry them two, three or four" and then goes on to say that if a man cannot treat them equally then he should stick to one and to fear God in this matter because they'll be called to account if they are unfair to their wives (I paraphrase the translation but it is mostly words to that effect). What counts as 'equality' and 'fairness' can be a somewhat subjective issue but what isn't subjective is the fact that the Quran gives general permission for a man to marry more than once without the specific restriction of only doing so if the first wife is barren or the other reasons you stated.

      Second source of evidence are the Hadiths which contain ample references to the Prophet Muhammad (saw) and the lives of his companions (ra) in which he often arranged their marriages as well as his own and voiced his disapproval whenever anyone breached the limits set in Islam on those issues. During that time, several of his companions married more than one woman, some married widows and orphaned young women (so that they'd have the added protection of a male guardian as an attempt to please God) and some didn't.

      At no point whatsoever was there any restriction placed on the specific reasons for marrying more than once, neither in the Quran, nor in the Hadiths, nor even in the 3rd source of reference, the consensus of the companions (ra), nor the fourth source of reference, the writings of early scholars of the four main schools of thought, Imams: Malik, Shafi, Hanbal or Abu Hanifa.

      Neelu
      Tuesday, March 16, 2010 11:12:00 PM

      Anonymous said...Sorry I exagerrated in my previous post and can't find an edit function to correct it. When I said "no reason whatsoever", I meant that none of the reasons you gave in your previous post were ever stipulated as prerequisites for marrying more than once.

      There were OTHER rules regarding marrying more than once such as the assumption that the man should have the income and means to support more than one wife and family etc, but that's a separate issue. There being a higher ratio of women to men or a high number of widows was never a prerequisite, that's my main point.

      Neelu

      PS: if you have evidence to the contrary of what I said, please stick as much as possible to the four main sources of evidence: Quran, Sunnah, Sahaba and the early scholars. These days anyone can find any dom d!ck or harry scholar on google claiming to justify anything but it isn't legit unless it's backed up by the original sources of evidence.

      NB: Grrrr in my response to her I completely forgot to add that these marriages did not involve seeking consent from the first wife and there's no evidence to suggest that they did. Grrr *slaps Neelu on the wrist*
      Last edited by neelu; 16-03-10, 11:26 PM. Reason: NB:...
      The Lyme Disease pandemic: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z5u73ME4sVU

      Comment


        #4
        Re: Needing 1st wife's consent for 2nd marriage

        Its something u should interrogate future husbands to be about b4 u get married. But if i was infertile i wouldn't mind my man takin up another wife
        وَاقْصِدْ فِي مَشْيِكَ وَاغْضُضْ مِن صَوْتِكَ ۚ إِنَّ أَنكَرَ الْأَصْوَاتِ لَصَوْتُ الْحَمِيرِ - 31:19

        And be moderate in your pace and lower your voice; indeed, the most disagreeable of sounds is the voice of donkeys."


        أَلَمْ تَرَوْا أَنَّ اللَّهَ سَخَّرَ لَكُم مَّا فِي السَّمَاوَاتِ وَمَا فِي الْأَرْضِ وَأَسْبَغَ عَلَيْكُمْ نِعَمَهُ ظَاهِرَةً وَبَاطِنَةً ۗ وَمِنَ النَّاسِ مَن يُجَادِلُ فِي اللَّهِ بِغَيْرِ عِلْمٍ وَلَا هُدًى وَلَا كِتَابٍ مُّنِيرٍ - 31:20

        Do you not see that Allah has made subject to you whatever is in the heavens and whatever is in the earth and amply bestowed upon you His favors, [both] apparent and unapparent? But of the people is he who disputes about Allah without knowledge or guidance or an enlightening Book [from Him].


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          #5
          Re: Needing 1st wife's consent for 2nd marriage

          @ neelu

          there is no hadith to say permission is required
          http://www.islam-qa.com/en/ref/12544/second%20wife

          but what people need to realise, is that this isnt unfair, because in any marrriage all partners have the right to be happy and you cant force anybody to give up their rights unless they decide out of kindness to forgo their rights...so if a man wants another woman, you cant stop them, but you can choose what you youself want and leave and then marry someone who wants only one, if you had the right to force a man to stay wtih you only, I dont know which woman would be happy wtih that, knowing the only reason he is with you only is becasue he has no choice and not because you are enough for him

          similarly, if a wife is not happy with her husband, she can leave and marry another, does the husband have the right to force her not to? no, so it really is the same

          it just looks on the surface like men are getting a better deal, but they are not, unless you are willing to accomodate them out of your own will
          " O you who have believed, do not follow the footsteps of Satan. And whoever follows the footsteps of Satan - indeed, he enjoins immorality and wrongdoing. And if not for the favor of Allah upon you and His mercy, not one of you would have been pure, ever, but Allah purifies whom He wills, and Allah is Hearing and Knowing. "
          Surah An-Nur, Verse 21

          Comment


            #6
            Re: Needing 1st wife's consent for 2nd marriage

            True.

            You don’t HAVE to seek consent from your first wife before looking for marrying a second.

            However the few second marriages that I have seen actually work, have been where a true informed consent has been granted in an open and honest matter. You have to understand that if a guy was going to marry a second wife then why wouldn’t he consult his first wife about this beforehand? It is doomed to failure from the start if he is going to bulldoze his way through his wife’s wishes and feelings regardless and go ahead and marry a second wife anyway. I knew a sheikh who did do just this and it ended in disaster. The problem is confounded when you try and keep one wife secret from the other it ends up in lying, deceit and eventual mistrust end resentment where something has to give.

            We know women are incredibly sensitive creatures that are also very jealous and need treating delicately most of the time. No women no matter how religious will take lightly that her husband wants to marry another woman. Also very few women are willing to share their man with his first wife and would much rather that he divorce his first wife because the idea of their husband being intimate with another woman is something that is unbearable.

            The best situation is to be honest with your wife from the outset. No-one has the right to make the halal haram and vice versa. Unfortunately societal taboos are difficult to get rid off but as muslims we shouldn’t care about these anyway. The only way that the first wife will agree to her husband marrying again is if their relationship is strong and concrete in the first place with immense trust and honesty. Counter-intuitive I know because the majority of men looking for second marriages are doing so because of a failing first but they don’t realise that in doing so they will have two failed marriages. Why would a man look for a second marriage if he has a strong first marriage anyway? That is a natural question. The answer is that men are deep down in their nature polygamous whether they admit to it or not. Few people are fortunate enough to have everything they have ever wanted found in just one woman. What your first wife needs to be told though is that the second wife is in no way a replacement but more of a supplementation/addition . Nothing can hurt a woman more than to be told that the person she loves more than anything else on earth loves someone else. However if she is confident in herself that her husband does love her but she understands that he requires something extra then she may well let him marry again because above all she wants him to be happy.

            In order to do justice to two wives you have to be in partnership and not a competition. You are accountable for time and money spent on each of them and this will only be made easier if everyone is working together. It is important to note that you are not accountable for how much you love either of your wives and all of which that entails (intimacy). Because Allah acknowledges that you can never do complete justice in all matters with our wives no matter how we may desire it (see 4:129) but that we have to try our best and not to end up leaving one or the other hanging.


            Sorry long winded post but summary is consent should be sort and is corteous to do so because the only reason you wouldn't seek consent is because you know the answer will be NO, so instead of tackling the problems/obstacles that are preventing your 1st wife from understanding WHY you require a second wife you just brush it under the carpet and hope it will go away? I mean its the momentous decision u are going to take surely ur wife deserves to be informed. So if ur wife says no is it halal to go ahead anyway? yes but then ur starting off on a shaky foundation from the start. Best to secure up your first marrriage and build on firm foundations rather than destine another to be doomed.
            Last edited by Dhirar; 17-03-10, 08:45 PM. Reason: spelling mistakes
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            Comment


              #7
              Re: Needing 1st wife's consent for 2nd marriage

              Dhirar, I agree that a first wife should be consulted and think it is wrong for a man to marry another woman without even discussing it with his first wife or doing it in such a way that the second wife doesn't know he's already married etc. Using deceit to start a marriage or conceal it or somehow trick a wife is wrong but that's not the issue here. In fact our discussion was regarding a man whose wife always knew he intended to marry a second time so deceit was never the issue.

              The issue here is the assumption some women make that if a first wife insists that her husband cannot marry again then there are many people out there who think that this is binding from an Islamic legal standpoint- which it is not. I agree that if a first wife doesn't want her husband to marry again then this can cause him problems in his next marriage and she has the right to divorce him if she cannot live her life like that, but that's a far cry from suggesting that in ISLAM, he has no right to marry a second or third time unless the previous wife says yes. Anyway, just when I thought I'd made things quite clear in the blog response i get this reply which I've put in italics- get ready to cringe *cringe cringe ugh*:

              Would Al Azhar be good enough?

              The 'Mufti' has decreed that a man 'must' notify the first wife, offecially and through the courts, with his intention to take another wife - and allowed the first wife one whole year to object and be entitled to immediate and 'forceful' divorce with all her, and that of her children, legal rights protected, even if the husband has taken another already. If that's not seeking first wife's permission, I don't know what is! And, it may be the reason why so many men don't even dare think it, eh?

              And, with regards to the reasons allowed, you yourself mention why men of wealth married widows to help and protect them and their kids. I am no authority on Islam and can't remember Quran, or Hadith to prove, but, what I knew all my life, is that men need good reason to seek a second wife, some, as stated in my previous comment .. me, being An Egyptian Sunni (Never knew I was one till I got here!)Sunnis, of course, follow the teachings of Al-Azhar, the most prominent and comprehensive scholar entity ever, as well as the oldest university in the world!

              Then again, I see Islam that I do not recognise as such here!


              So to recap: she brings nothing from Quran, Sunnah, Ijma or the classical scholars, but somehow dishing out the name 'Al Azhar' is meant to be better than all that. I think I'm going to be sick!
              The Lyme Disease pandemic: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z5u73ME4sVU

              Comment


                #8
                Re: Needing 1st wife's consent for 2nd marriage

                Originally posted by neelu View Post
                Dhirar, I agree that a first wife should be consulted and think it is wrong for a man to marry another woman without even discussing it with his first wife or doing it in such a way that the second wife doesn't know he's already married etc. Using deceit to start a marriage or conceal it or somehow trick a wife is wrong but that's not the issue here. In fact our discussion was regarding a man whose wife always knew he intended to marry a second time so deceit was never the issue.

                The issue here is the assumption some women make that if a first wife insists that her husband cannot marry again then there are many people out there who think that this is binding from an Islamic legal standpoint- which it is not. I agree that if a first wife doesn't want her husband to marry again then this can cause him problems in his next marriage and she has the right to divorce him if she cannot live her life like that, but that's a far cry from suggesting that in ISLAM, he has no right to marry a second or third time unless the previous wife says yes. Anyway, just when I thought I'd made things quite clear in the blog response i get this reply which I've put in italics- get ready to cringe *cringe cringe ugh*:

                Would Al Azhar be good enough?

                The 'Mufti' has decreed that a man 'must' notify the first wife, offecially and through the courts, with his intention to take another wife - and allowed the first wife one whole year to object and be entitled to immediate and 'forceful' divorce with all her, and that of her children, legal rights protected, even if the husband has taken another already. If that's not seeking first wife's permission, I don't know what is! And, it may be the reason why so many men don't even dare think it, eh?

                And, with regards to the reasons allowed, you yourself mention why men of wealth married widows to help and protect them and their kids. I am no authority on Islam and can't remember Quran, or Hadith to prove, but, what I knew all my life, is that men need good reason to seek a second wife, some, as stated in my previous comment .. me, being An Egyptian Sunni (Never knew I was one till I got here!)Sunnis, of course, follow the teachings of Al-Azhar, the most prominent and comprehensive scholar entity ever, as well as the oldest university in the world!

                Then again, I see Islam that I do not recognise as such here!


                So to recap: she brings nothing from Quran, Sunnah, Ijma or the classical scholars, but somehow dishing out the name 'Al Azhar' is meant to be better than all that. I think I'm going to be sick!
                you need to chill brother

                if you are worried that this somehow will affect you then you shouldnt as only Allah has everything in His hands

                similarly you should not worry for others either, women are upset and will always be, you cant shut them up, however if a man wants to prove that he diesnt need her permission he can becaue there is proof for that, so no need to get upset what these women are saying, of course they are hurt, you would be too
                " O you who have believed, do not follow the footsteps of Satan. And whoever follows the footsteps of Satan - indeed, he enjoins immorality and wrongdoing. And if not for the favor of Allah upon you and His mercy, not one of you would have been pure, ever, but Allah purifies whom He wills, and Allah is Hearing and Knowing. "
                Surah An-Nur, Verse 21

                Comment


                  #9
                  Re: Needing 1st wife's consent for 2nd marriage

                  I sent another reply this time I sent it directly to her blog rather than derail the topic of the blog our debate started on. Her blog didn't instantly show my post as it would require moderator approval first so I'll mention this gist of it here in case she doesn't approve it and I don't want to forget what I wrote. I wrote salam and then something like this:

                  It's a shame that in spite of being a Sunni Muslim raised in an Arab country, you still haven't been taught the very basics of what Islam is and how Islamic rules are derived otherwise you would've known that your response was wholly inadequate. Amongst other things, I quoted Surah Tauba verse 31 onwards about how "they worshipped their priests and rabbis" because Allah (swt) gave them scriptures and instead of obeying the scriptures people obeyed what their religious leaders were saying who were corrupting the religion for money or power. I then said this wasn't just a history lesson about the past, it was a warning for the Ummah to follow the Quran and Sunnah and that the scholar's job is to explain and teach these rules on that basis, not make up their own rules without any backing from scriptures and expect us to follow them instead of Allah (swt). That was basically the gist of what I wrote and I know she wont like it as it'll knock her ego and directly challenges the sort of so called 'Islam' she was raised to follow, but it remains to be seen whether my post is challenged or responded to or not.

                  Originally posted by IDK View Post
                  you need to chill brother
                  Looool that just cracked me up- don't worry you're not the first to make that mistake ROFL!!

                  Originally posted by IDK View Post
                  similarly you should not worry for others either, women are upset and will always be, you cant shut them up,
                  Loooooool thanks akhi, I needed that laugh for today:D
                  The Lyme Disease pandemic: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z5u73ME4sVU

                  Comment


                    #10
                    Re: Needing 1st wife's consent for 2nd marriage

                    Originally posted by neelu View Post
                    I sent another reply this time I sent it directly to her blog rather than derail the topic of the blog our debate started on. Her blog didn't instantly show my post as it would require moderator approval first so I'll mention this gist of it here in case she doesn't approve it and I don't want to forget what I wrote. I wrote salam and then something like this:

                    It's a shame that in spite of being a Sunni Muslim raised in an Arab country, you still haven't been taught the very basics of what Islam is and how Islamic rules are derived otherwise you would've known that your response was wholly inadequate. Amongst other things, I quoted Surah Tauba verse 31 onwards about how "they worshipped their priests and rabbis" because Allah (swt) gave them scriptures and instead of obeying the scriptures people obeyed what their religious leaders were saying who were corrupting the religion for money or power. I then said this wasn't just a history lesson about the past, it was a warning for the Ummah to follow the Quran and Sunnah and that the scholar's job is to explain and teach these rules on that basis, not make up their own rules without any backing from scriptures and expect us to follow them instead of Allah (swt). That was basically the gist of what I wrote and I know she wont like it as it'll knock her ego and directly challenges the sort of so called 'Islam' she was raised to follow, but it remains to be seen whether my post is challenged or responded to or not.



                    Looool that just cracked me up- don't worry you're not the first to make that mistake ROFL!!



                    Loooooool thanks akhi, I needed that laugh for today:D
                    which mistake did I make? sorry if I am missing the joke but seriously you come here complaining that some sister upset you, you sound like a nagging wife akhi lol

                    you are looking to vent, so you are making us victims to your rant and it is especially torturous since we had nothing to do with it LOL
                    " O you who have believed, do not follow the footsteps of Satan. And whoever follows the footsteps of Satan - indeed, he enjoins immorality and wrongdoing. And if not for the favor of Allah upon you and His mercy, not one of you would have been pure, ever, but Allah purifies whom He wills, and Allah is Hearing and Knowing. "
                    Surah An-Nur, Verse 21

                    Comment


                      #11
                      Re: Needing 1st wife's consent for 2nd marriage

                      Sorry akhi I wasn't trying to mock you, it's just that your response was so unexpected it made me laugh. I'm not a brother and I thought I did mention that in my previous post but silly me- looks like I forgot. Anyone curious as to how the debate is going can take a look at her blog comments here:

                      http://chezsams.blogspot.com/2010/02/hey-judge.html
                      The Lyme Disease pandemic: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z5u73ME4sVU

                      Comment


                        #12
                        Re: Needing 1st wife's consent for 2nd marriage

                        you state in your marriage contract that he isnt alloud to marry another woman

                        Comment


                          #13
                          Re: Needing 1st wife's consent for 2nd marriage

                          Originally posted by SoMaLi_PRinCeSs View Post
                          you state in your marriage contract that he isnt alloud to marry another woman
                          ???

                          I heard some ulama do not agree with this Allah knows best
                          And to Allah belong the soldiers of the heavens and the earth, and ever is Allah Knowing and Wise. [And] that He may admit the believing men and the believing women to gardens beneath which rivers flow to abide therein eternally and remove from them their misdeeds - and ever is that, in the sight of Allah , a great attainment.

                          Surah Fatĥ 4/5

                          Comment


                            #14
                            Re: Needing 1st wife's consent for 2nd marriage

                            i thought it was universally agreed that it is allowed? :scratch:

                            Comment


                              #15
                              Re: Needing 1st wife's consent for 2nd marriage

                              Originally posted by sum5 View Post
                              ???

                              I heard some ulama do not agree with this Allah knows best
                              you can put wateva you want in your marriage contract it how we do it...

                              like for example you discuss second marriages n you tell the brother before hand its not sumfin you want to comply in or involved in. so if he disagree's then you dont marry each other if he agree's the marriage contract is written with witnesses there.

                              also you can put down money how much he has to give you if you ever was to get a divorce.. what he owes you could be anything could be money a book or a shoe i put down £500 000..

                              you can put down wateva ...

                              iinfact i remember a brother asking for advice in our community because his first wife wrote a contract no second wife and he wanted to break the contract....
                              or jst make him swear on the quran.. that will mke sure he never will
                              and if he dont wanna do it then plenty more fish in the sea.!!! n you know his true intentions for your marital life..

                              Comment

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