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  • #76
    Re: I'm no longer 'engaged'

    Originally posted by Amatullah Adn View Post
    You are correct. It is not good for men either. But given that a man can divorce much easier than a woman, that he does not have the biological burnden of pregancy and childcare, and that he can take another wife the consequences are far greater for women.
    again, no evidance to suggest that we are allowed to do haraam i.e. dating.
    Unseen knowledge in this signature can only be seen by a few!

    There is Taqwa and there is Fatwa ... The believer, the mu'min, seeks taqwa, where as others weak in faith seek fatwaa. Fatwaa is very close to the borderline where as taqwa is far from it.

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    • #77
      Re: I'm no longer 'engaged'

      Amatullah it would make so much more sense if you just said 'I would date, i think it's okay.' but don't pin it on to Islam when you know just as well as anybody there's no basis for that in Islam.
      May we reach daruSalaam by His, and only His Decree
      I would die for the cause if I knew only to what degree
      *
      My Blog

      Comment


      • #78
        Re: I'm no longer 'engaged'

        Originally posted by Amatullah Adn View Post
        I agree that divorce is too easy in Western countries and that self-satisfaction raised to the level of be all and end all creates problems. What is needed is balance where women and children are strengthened not forced to submit and told they will be rewarded in some other life.
        Originally posted by Amatullah Adn View Post
        You are correct. It is not good for men either. But given that a man can divorce much easier than a woman, that he does not have the biological burnden of pregancy and childcare, and that he can take another wife the consequences are far greater for women.
        Originally posted by Amatullah Adn View Post
        These are very excellent quotes but these are not heard often enough. What we hear are other quotes. You can wish that Islam is something that how it is practiced but sadly it is not practiced this way in most of our world. What is done and said in the name of Islam reflects on Islam and that is what we are trying to change.

        What is needed are women imams (I can hear the gasps!) and more women in leadership positions.
        interesting, still waiting to see a quote from quran or hadith which says we are allowed to do haraam acts and go against the teachings of allah and the prophet (pbuh).
        Unseen knowledge in this signature can only be seen by a few!

        There is Taqwa and there is Fatwa ... The believer, the mu'min, seeks taqwa, where as others weak in faith seek fatwaa. Fatwaa is very close to the borderline where as taqwa is far from it.

        Comment


        • #79
          Re: I'm no longer 'engaged'

          Originally posted by zammy View Post
          Amatullah it would make so much more sense if you just said 'I would date, i think it's okay.' but don't pin it on to Islam when you know just as well as anybody there's no basis for that in Islam.
          exactly!!!! trying to say that islam allows dating and dating is halaal woooaaahh!!!
          Unseen knowledge in this signature can only be seen by a few!

          There is Taqwa and there is Fatwa ... The believer, the mu'min, seeks taqwa, where as others weak in faith seek fatwaa. Fatwaa is very close to the borderline where as taqwa is far from it.

          Comment


          • #80
            Re: I'm no longer 'engaged'

            Originally posted by Amatullah Adn View Post
            Which is why it is censored as 'unIslamic' (according to male interpreters of Islam)

            If you have a problem with a moderators decision please post it in helpdesk not here.

            Even some western feminists - Germaine Greer for one - have realised that the "sexual revolution" in western culture has resulted in harming women far more than it has harmed men (and she didn't mention much good that has come out of it for either gender) I suggest you read her book before you continue not only propogating "feminist" ideals that actually benefit men at the expense of women but also trying to say that Islam teaches such things. InshaAllah by realising the damage done to women by the "sexual revolution" you might start to understand how Islam protects women.
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            • #81
              Re: I'm no longer 'engaged'

              Originally posted by Amatullah Adn View Post
              What is needed are women imams (I can hear the gasps!) and more women in leadership positions.
              Is this your personal opinion? because its not what islam teaches :) We do have women imams, who says we dont, but they only lead women like the Prophet S advised.
              Watch this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nvM7L5Wm7q0

              ‎"If she's not on the deen, she's not fit to be your queen. If he hasn't got imaan, he's not fit to be your man."



              Comment


              • #82
                Re: I'm no longer 'engaged'

                Originally posted by dhakiyya View Post
                If you have a problem with a moderators decision please post it in helpdesk not here.

                Even some western feminists - Germaine Greer for one - have realised that the "sexual revolution" in western culture has resulted in harming women far more than it has harmed men (and she didn't mention much good that has come out of it for either gender) I suggest you read her book before you continue not only propogating "feminist" ideals that actually benefit men at the expense of women but also trying to say that Islam teaches such things. InshaAllah by realising the damage done to women by the "sexual revolution" you might start to understand how Islam protects women.
                i was speaking to a christian and she said the same thing!!!! she said, when men start acting like women and women start acting like men, everything goes wrong and it affects your children too. didn't quite understand the last bit but, you get the picture.
                Unseen knowledge in this signature can only be seen by a few!

                There is Taqwa and there is Fatwa ... The believer, the mu'min, seeks taqwa, where as others weak in faith seek fatwaa. Fatwaa is very close to the borderline where as taqwa is far from it.

                Comment


                • #83
                  Re: I'm no longer 'engaged'

                  Asalamu Alaykum,

                  Sister Amatullah, forgive me if I'm wrong...but, it seems, you, in your life experiences, have had to face some form of extreme negative treatment of women, from supposedly pious, 'Islamic', men.

                  I'm assuming, after witnessing such treatment, you grew up believing that Islam is all about the subjugation of women. Perhaps, you started looking at the west, the Godless secular society, seeing how women are supposedly liberated, and thought you want to be a part of it.

                  Am I right? :D

                  I'm guessing it was something like that which would force you to want to change your priorities in life.

                  To me, it seems, you lack understanding of Islam. You shouldn't let one extreme (negative attitudes of some muslim men), turn you to the opposite extreme ('Islamic' liberalism). You should at least, try to understand Islam from the correct sources. You don't look at Islam through your own opinions, there are clear sources for us, the Quran and the ahadith. This is what our religion is based on.

                  From these sources, it is very clear, you can't date. So, tell me, why do you insist on wanting to? It is haraam. Clearly, tell me you see that?

                  It's one thing to think it ok to sin, but it's another telling others to as well.

                  I ask you sincerely, to evaluate yourself and try to understand Islam from the perspective it is meant to be understood. Don't let men who abuse Islam ruin the true Islam for you. You owe it to yourself to learn.

                  Comment


                  • #84
                    Re: I'm no longer 'engaged'

                    You don't need to date someone. Alot of people are uncomfortable with marrying someone they don't know the "ins-and outs" about, but automatically assume the only solution to this is to start a physical relationship with them e.g. boyfriend/girlfriend and then marry. This isn't just sensationally un-Islamic but more potently, just plain ignorant and wrong.
                    If you read this closely enough you might spot the secret message hidden in it

                    Mr President, You Are Wrong

                    Comment


                    • #85
                      Re: I'm no longer 'engaged'

                      Originally posted by imanalistic View Post
                      i was speaking to a christian and she said the same thing!!!! she said, when men start acting like women and women start acting like men, everything goes wrong and it affects your children too. didn't quite understand the last bit but, you get the picture.
                      yeah, tis true. Greer was saying that basically, sex outside of marriage, promiscuity, pornography and very revealing clothes have become socially acceptable. In each case, consider who is benefitting and who is harmed:

                      Sex outside of marrige: who has the baby, and has to raise it alone and endure financial hardship because of it? who gets to run away from the responsibility of the child concieved outside of marriage (fine not all men do this, but men have this option to run away easily with no difficulty to them except the child support agency if they can't escape them too) - if women want to get out of the responsibility then there are two options both of which hurt women far far more than men: adoption - the woman has to go through pregnancy and childbirth and then give up the baby. abortion: contrary to popular belief, most women who have abortions are not callous people who just go and get it done without thinking so they can carry on sex outside of marriage - in a disturbingly large number of cases they have been pressured or even forced to go through with it, often lied to about the consequences, or told that the baby is "just tissue" and they're not really killing it. So, who really benefits from freely available abortion: men, so they can force/persuade the women they impregnate to get rid of teh problem so they don't have the financial burden of supporting them. Even with contraceptives: who has to take the pills which disrupt their natural hormones?

                      pornography: the vast majority of porn is for men, the majority of porn models are young women, yes many of them are pressured into doing it, believing that it will help them become a top model/actress. The sexual revolution has led to massive increases in the availability of pornography, almost all of it for men, by men, of women.

                      dating: dating is a sub category of sex outside of marriage so therefore all the above applies. Also, date rape. How often are men the victims of date rape? They're not. Women are. In addition to persuading women to make themselves freely available for sex for men, in some cases men force women to do this.

                      fashion industry: like pornography, it is controlled by men, and it puts women on display for the benefit of men. The men who control the industry also decide which body types they want for their models - their preference for tall skinny women has led to all kinds of eating disorders, which - surprise surprise affect women ten times more often than they effect men. Together with the pharmacuticals industry which breeds paranoia among women in order to sell their products - this has led to a new condition called body dysmorphic disorder, where women who have nothing wrong with them believe they are hideously ugly, as in their mind they exaggerate miniscule or even imagined flaws. Who suffers from this? women.

                      And if skimpiness of clothing is something that is supposed to be of equal benefit to men and women, why is it you see men dressing in modest clothes whilst women are showing far more of themselves? Despite being the gender that is by far the more prone to rape and other sexual violence, they are the ones the least covered up. If you want a comparison, the only time you see men as skimpily dressed as women are expected to be in certain situations, e.g. at nightclubs, on the beach, when going out in the evening with friends, or on a date for example - is at a gay nightclub. Even gay men don't dress like that in the highstreet, and they certainly don't dress equally as skimpily for the benefit of women.

                      So. Sexual revolution = very bad for women. Its also very bad for children too but thats a whole other story for a whole different post. Suffice it to say, that when on a child protection course for my previous job (teaching EBD kids) - the person running the course said that the skyrocketing levels of child abuse in the UK and the USA are the direct result of the breakdown in family values that has been happening since the sixties. Oh yes, because of the "sexual revolution"
                      Last edited by dhak1yya; 30-09-07, 08:41 PM.
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                      • #86
                        Re: I'm no longer 'engaged'

                        Originally posted by dhakiyya View Post
                        yeah, tis true. Greer was saying that basically, sex outside of marriage, promiscuity, pornography and very revealing clothes have become socially acceptable. In each case, consider who is benefitting and who is harmed:

                        Sex outside of marrige: who has the baby, and has to raise it alone and endure financial hardship because of it? who gets to run away from the responsibility of the child concieved outside of marriage (fine not all men do this, but men have this responsibility) - if women want to get out of the responsibility then there are two options both of which hurt women far far more than men: adoption - the woman has to go through pregnancy and childbirth and then give up the baby. abortion: contrary to popular belief, most women who have abortions are not callous people who just go and get it done without thinking so they can carry on sex outside of marriage - in a disturbingly large number of cases they have been pressured or even forced to go through with it, often lied to about the consequences, or told that the baby is "just tissue" and they're not really killing it. So, who really benefits from freely available abortion: men, so they can force/persuade the women they impregnate to get rid of teh problem so they don't have the financial burden of supporting them. Even with contraceptives: who has to take the pills which disrupt their natural hormones?

                        pornography: the vast majority of porn is for men, the majority of porn models are young women, yes many of them are pressured into doing it, believing that it will help them become a top model/actress. The sexual revolution has led to massive increases in the availability of pornography, almost all of it for men, by men, of women.

                        dating: dating is a sub category of sex outside of marriage so therefore all the above applies. Also, date rape. How often are men the victims of date rape? They're not. Women are. In addition to persuading women to make themselves freely available for sex for men, in some cases men force women to do this.

                        fashion industry: like pornography, it is controlled by men, and it puts women on display for the benefit of men. The men who control the industry also decide which body types they want for their models - their preference for tall skinny women has led to all kinds of eating disorders, which - surprise surprise affect women ten times more often than they effect men. Together with the pharmacuticals industry which breeds paranoia among women in order to sell their products - this has led to a new condition called body dysmorphic disorder, where women who have nothing wrong with them believe they are hideously ugly, as in their mind they exaggerate miniscule or even imagined flaws. Who suffers from this? women.

                        And if skimpiness of clothing is something that is supposed to be of equal benefit to men and women, why is it you see men dressing in modest clothes whilst women are showing far more of themselves? Despite being the gender that is by far the more prone to rape and other sexual violence, they are the ones the least covered up. If you want a comparison, the only time you see men as skimpily dressed as women are expected to be in certain situations, e.g. at nightclubs, on the beach, when going out in the evening with friends, or on a date for example - is at a gay nightclub. Even gay men don't dress like that in the highstreet, and they certainly don't dress equally as skimpily for the benefit of women.

                        So. Sexual revolution = very bad for women. Its also very bad for children too but thats a whole other story for a whole different post. Suffice it to say, that when on a child protection course for my previous job (teaching EBD kids) - the person running the course said that the skyrocketing levels of child abuse in the UK and the USA are the direct result of the breakdown in family values that has been happening since the sixties. Oh yes, because of the "sexual revolution"
                        masha'allah, excellent and very accurate post which discribes everything which is happening because of this so called revolution which is ruining women. i just hope that sisters like Amatullah Adn realise this before its to late.
                        Unseen knowledge in this signature can only be seen by a few!

                        There is Taqwa and there is Fatwa ... The believer, the mu'min, seeks taqwa, where as others weak in faith seek fatwaa. Fatwaa is very close to the borderline where as taqwa is far from it.

                        Comment


                        • #87
                          Re: I'm no longer 'engaged'

                          Awesome Post Dhakkiyah Mashallah.
                          Watch this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nvM7L5Wm7q0

                          ‎"If she's not on the deen, she's not fit to be your queen. If he hasn't got imaan, he's not fit to be your man."



                          Comment


                          • #88
                            Re: I'm no longer 'engaged'

                            And women see this as freedom Now I understand why women are mocked by men :rotfl:
                            If you read this closely enough you might spot the secret message hidden in it

                            Mr President, You Are Wrong

                            Comment


                            • #89
                              Re: I'm no longer 'engaged'

                              It's beyond my understanding how any woman can see that as freedom. People are so backwards in their conception of some things...they say Islam oppresses women but the sex industry is the only thing I see oppressing woman.
                              May we reach daruSalaam by His, and only His Decree
                              I would die for the cause if I knew only to what degree
                              *
                              My Blog

                              Comment


                              • #90
                                Re: I'm no longer 'engaged'

                                Originally posted by Kal-El View Post
                                And women see this as freedom Now I understand why women are mocked by men :rotfl:
                                luckily muslim women are not mocked by men. infact they are respected to a high degree. probably explains why so many non muslim women come to islam!!!
                                Last edited by imanalistic; 30-09-07, 09:28 PM.
                                Unseen knowledge in this signature can only be seen by a few!

                                There is Taqwa and there is Fatwa ... The believer, the mu'min, seeks taqwa, where as others weak in faith seek fatwaa. Fatwaa is very close to the borderline where as taqwa is far from it.

                                Comment

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