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  • #31
    Re: Emotional blackmail

    JLo thank you for bringing your perspective of the situation to light. Im sure this will help br ismail make the right decision whatever that may be.

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    • #32
      Re: Emotional blackmail

      Originally posted by JLo View Post
      Assalamu Alikeum Br. Ismail,

      I've been reading this thread and your other thread and been reading with interest. Unlike the majority of the Asian posters who have responded to both of your posts, I'm not Asian so my perspective is going to be very different. I've got Asian friends and acquaintances and have interaction with the Asian community and your situation seems to be the norm amongst many Asian families from my observation.
      Assalaamualaikum,

      by far the most enlightening perspective given here :jkk: sis JLo :) ...insha'Allaah bro make istikhaarah and stand firm in Allaah's decision. :up:

      Take care insha'Allaah

      Walaikumsalaam
      :up: Sponsor the 20 mile walk for Children of Chechnya! :up:


      http://www.ilovepalestine.com/campai...imesinGaza.gif

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      • #33
        Re: Emotional blackmail

        :start:

        :salams

        My opinion in this matter maybe incorrect regarding certain points due to the fact that this is the first time I've come across Br. Ismail's problems. However, :insha: my opinion shall help him.

        First of all brother, I ask you what is the basis of every decision made by a Muslim? It should be to seek the pleasure of ALLAH SWT! I won't be quoting a lot many verses (:insha: you'll find them all around you, as you've a Muslim household :masha:), as a sister complained that my posts become boring essays. However, something that will sooth you is:

        [018:028] Be contented with yourself and with those who pray to their Lord morning and evening, seeking His pleasure. Do not turn your eyes away from them, nor seek the allure of the life of this world. Do not follow anyone who slams his mind shut upon Our advice, follows his own whims and is immoderate in his affairs.

        [009:072] God hath promised to Believers, men and women, gardens under which rivers flow, to dwell therein, and beautiful mansions in gardens of everlasting bliss. But the greatest bliss is the good pleasure of God: that is the supreme felicity.


        It is clear brother that Allah's Pleasure is the basis of every decision that we make. This applies for you AS WELL AS your father. HOWEVER, YOU are the one who can act upon your thoughts and opinions, you can only request your father to see your point of view rather than force him. So, YOUR action is the decision we are looking for from this discussion.

        As I've already pointed out in another thread, Islam is against racism. And Islam is against baseless regionalism. So, from this point of view, your father's approach in trying to push you to marry a Pakistani girl only is wrong. HOWEVER, the approach has already been taken and YOU have made the mistake of giving your PROMISE to marry the sister from Pakistan.

        Now there are two possibilities that you have:

        1. Either you forgive your father's presumable mistake of initiating the Rishta, and weigh your opinion in favor of his happiness and in the name of Allah marry the Pakistani sister. Or,

        2. Your father forgives your mistake of breaking your Promise and putting his image in jeopardy, and for breaking the social practice of marrying outside your community (if that's a mistake in his eyes).

        Both these situations can have further consequences, for example:

        1. If you marry the Pakistani sister, either your fears may prove right and you'll end up hating her OR your partner may be able to surprise you and your life becomes a bliss (which includes minor arguments, complaints, rebuttals and redressals). In both these situations your family, which includes your father, will remain with you because of obvious reasons that you stayed behind them for this marriage.

        2. If you marry your "friend", one possibility is that your expectations will bear fruit and you may be able to lead a good marital life with your wife. However, bringing parents back into your life will take time and who knows about the future - there is no guarantee of a person's health. Overall your father will face disagreement and disgrace for breaking his promise to his brother and this will continue to hurt him for long. There is also the possibility that the marriage may break down due to any reason, and then your regret will be no bounds:
        - the regret of the marriage's failure
        - the regret of hurting your parents
        - the regret generated due to undue criticism from your family and community in Pakistan

        HOWEVER, I am not implying till now that you go for the 1st scenario owing to lesser problems in that! What I wish to say is that your "over-inclination" towards breaking your promise and marrying your "friend" is not justified. Right now, the best possible steps that you may take are:

        - talk to your father about marrying outside the community
        - at the first opportunity, go to Pakistan and have a meeting with that sister. Here you should not just emphasize upon seeing her, but in fact have a good long talk with her about her beliefs and your beliefs, about her expectations and your expectations from life in general and marriage in particular, about living with parents and family, whether or not she can accept a second marriage or not, etc. Believe me a straight talk between two strangers (one of whom is bent upon finding faults ;)) will reveal much more than years of intimacy can! If you really find a point of fault with her, then you may decide against her in wisdom rather than the impulsive notion which you harbour in your mind at present.
        - :insha: you will be guided to the truth. My point is that you should not lose out on a better wife, among the two, and if Allah wills there will build a close proximity between you and your family too, and it will help you all in approaching to a solution which will not only be for your happiness but also for true Falaah in this life and the hereafter.

        A note about the presumption that some people feel, including you brother, that if your parents are stopping you from taking a decision of marriage implies that they don't love you! It is a completely wrong allegation. True that sometimes egoistic tendencies cause people to overlook their childrens' happiness, but that doesn't mean they don't love their children. Usually it is due to misinformation and misconceptions and false beliefs. For example, it is a stereotypical statement that Muslim men and women in Pakistan have better Islamic practices than their counterparts in the Western world. Such myths need to be dispelled. It is a fact that good Muslims may be anywhere and the only issues that a Muslim should look for in a spouse are better "deen" and compatibility.

        The truth is that parents can love you and support you in ways which are unbelievable. I've seen people dumped by friends and "girl-friends" alike in times of distress only to be supported by Parents and relatives! I've myself been reckless in the past, picking up fights and causing trouble and thus hurting my parents. Yet, when tragedy struck me due to my "friends" ditching me and defrauding me, it was my father who took all the burden of the tragedy on his shoulders and that is the only reason why I am free today to pursue further education and am writing to you :alhumdull. Even today I think of all the small and big mischiefs which caused hurt to my parents and I don't know whether Allah will ever forgive me, though I've repented and pray and just the thought of my mother's expressions when she came to know of the problems brings tears to my eyes and sweat to my face. I always see at how my dear friend Zafar has been all his life - in perfect servitude to his parents and I see how he is contented and happy today :masha: and I have the feeling that he is among those of the Jannah, so pious and so humble :masha:.

        My dear brother, it is a gift from Allah that you have not been given a short temper or a rebellious nature. :masha: you have been a wonderful son and an ardent Muslim. Whatever you do, do not hurt your parents. We only have one life and who knows whether they will live or not, so serve them and love them as much as you can - not tomorrow, not today, but NOW. Think of all the struggles that they have done in these cruel lands to give you a worldly life as well as the gift of Islam. Think of all the times when you made mistakes and your parents forgave you, running towards you to see that you're not hurt and ignoring the expensive fanoos which went to pieces. How can anyone say that the children have such and such right, and if not granted these rights, the immediate implication is that parents don't love their children.

        Similar is the case with blood relations. Whatever criticism they may pass against you and whatever differences they may have with you, it is a fact that when the world forsakes you, ultimately you are supported by your blood relations, even if they are just a handful of supporters.

        It is this reality which was established by Allah when He said:

        [002:215] They ask you as to what (and on whom) should they spend. Say, “Whatever good you do (and the money you spare) should (first) be for your parents and the near ones, and (then) for the orphans, the needy and the wayfarers. Indeed, Allah knows well whatever good you do!”

        So brother, I just request you to shun the impulsiveness in your nature at present (as shown by your speech - it seems that :masha: you are a calm and balanced person however the events have brought over this impulsiveness upon you), as it may be the work of Satan or Nafs.

        Whatever you choose, do not rebel against your parents or separate ways from them. In fact try to act sanely, inquire about the sister in Pakistan also and if you really find anything wrong with her regarding her "deen" or compatibility, you may be easily able to persuade your father as well as the sister's father that a marriage without compatibility will never be a happy one. :insha: your problems will be solved soon.

        The brighter side of all these events is that, if you handle disagreements properly, they only lead to close proximity and better understanding of each other. :insha: you and your family will come closer and take the right decision, in order to please Allah Only.

        May Allah guide us to the correct understanding and practice of the Perfect Deen.

        Now a few rebuttals:

        Originally posted by JLo View Post
        Assalamu Alikeum Br. Ismail,

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        The loyalty that as a child you would have for your parents is severely abused in the Asian community to the point where in many cases the words of Allah s.w.t and our messenger is overridden by the words and choices of the parents.
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        Theres an Asian brother i also know of, and unlike you, he wants to get married, met the sister but can't. Why? Because he has to wait till the eldest, his brother marries. His been waiting 3 years and his brother has no intention of marrying for ages, so this brother, who is financially stable, emotionally ready for marriage, is been held hostage by this ridiculous custom of 'eldest first'. If he decides to break free from this custom, he will be disowned!
        Very rightly said and a very grave problem faced in the Indian sub-continent. The origins of this can be traced to the Ramayana where the order of marriage was set according to the age, and thus Ram had to marry first and then Lakshman. Nowhere in the Qur'an or the Sunnah, it is mentioned that such a practice has to be followed. This is purely Bid'ah.

        Originally posted by JLo View Post
        .
        This might sound bad or arrogant even but personally dont need to do an Istikaara prayer to know that i would never marry a brother who's raised in my own country and i mean never. Ive been back home, i know that it'd never work because the environment they were raised in, their cultural and social expectations are so different to mine, not to mention their Islamic interpretation of a wife consists of a maid-like woman, whose there nothing more than to have millions of babies, cook and perform her sexual duties (there are exceptions but for the most part, thats considered the 'role' of a women- granted their are brothers here who share those ideas too- I'd avoid them like them as well!). For this reason I'd much rather prefer a brother who was raised here. Doesn't mean I'd take any old riff raff brother in the U.K but certainly our shared comparabilities, understanding, mentality and values which are a product of being raised here will be similar and we'd have a better marriage I feel. Realistically speaking, I'd probably have more in common with a brother like yourself (*thats not a com'on by the way lol) than a brother from my respective homeland.
        This is as much racist as the sexism of the stereotype of your imaginary "wife-beating-asian-male". There are Muslim men and women in all parts of the world who range from left liberal progressives to moderate objectivists to right wing fundamentalists, regardless of the places where they were raised up. In fact, a UK based brother (who was born and bred up in the UK) commented some time ago that the reason why Muslim men are nowadays becoming more and more addicted to porn is that the women have started to refuse them sex in the light of western feminism!

        As you've yourself said that there are exceptions everywhere, I suggest you remove these prejudices from your mind and be open to a spouse from anywhere in the world provided he is a Muslim, his Deen is correct and your views correlate. Nobody in Islam is asking you to marry a brother without seeing him or talking to him.

        Prejudices only help to widen the racial divides and generation gaps.

        Originally posted by JLo View Post
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        Either way, you have to be firm in your decision making now. You can't waver and go back and forth. If you deep down know that you don't want to marry this sis, then stand firm and do not give in regardless of what happens. If your parents truly love you, they'll get over this and not disown you. If they do, then imo, maybe they're not as loving as they say. It will be hard because your uncle will be upset when he finds out, but you must take this risk if you truly wish to be happy.
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        You don't want to wake up each day, knowing deep down that you made a mistake marrying a woman you didn't want to. It will only fester inside you and eventually make you bitter in your heart. You'll always feel resentful inside and life will not be happy and essentially push this onto her, maybe even grow to hate her. It happens!
        As I said, the brother should discuss with his family if he finds something with the sister which is incompatible with him. Nobody's stopping him to meet the sister or talk to her. :insha: only then, a better solution can be reached.

        Secondly, an advice to rebellion is not the best advice. In fact, there can be times after which one realizes that he has done a mistake yet its too late to ask forgiveness from the aggrieved parents.

        I also say that let the brother marry whom he likes. :insha: there will be blessing, happiness and success in it. But kindly do not marry by rebellion. No matter how much time it takes, marry only after the family gives consent, which will become easy :insha: once you decide that you will be kind to your parents no matter what happens and you'll try your hardest to bring them to your point of view (which you will develop by objective investigation) in the most kind manner. :insha:

        Originally posted by JLo View Post
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        I'd also advise you not to go traveling to Pakistan if it means that you will be coerced, forced or heavily pressured to marry once there. That happens way to often, you think your only going for a visit, next thing you know, you find out your wedding which you never knew existed is about to take place! Much harder to walk out of it then, if even you can (some sisters are left there permanently, with parents taking away their passports!)

        Take care bro.

        Ma'salam
        I am really sorry for the sisters who were subject to this cruelty. However, the family of br. Ismail seem to have no perverted dreams of this kind. :masha: his father is actually a man who loves his brother back in Pakistan. Such love is rare today.

        Regarding the question, "would you like to wake up next to the woman whom you didn't want to marry"? And further "regret your decision" and "bitterness for the wife". These clauses can very well generate anytime as thoughts of a husband in any marriage. The whole concept becomes difficult to imagine for a Muslims whose every act is ONLY for the sake of Allah. However, if at any time this happens, Allah has given the option of divorce.

        Overall, I would say that a Muslim who has taqwaa will make the decision in the best possible interest of his family, society and Ummah. Once he has taken a decision, he will live it with the best of intentions and Allah will make it easier to shun negative thoughts of this sort, as obviously they stem from the satan. Marriage can be one of the easiest as well as the most difficult things to maintain. No matter how strong a marriage is, it needs to be worked upon - ignoring snores, appreciating the fact that it really matters what color you are wearing, giving time and space, encouragement during times of hardship...etc. A firm belief in Allah and the sincere wish and effort to emulate the Beloved Prophet :saw: as a husband, will :insha: bring help from ALLAH SWT and then nothing will be difficult or bitter or worse.

        Allah knows best.

        :jkk:

        :salams
        Allaah said to His Prophets Moosaa and Haaroon (AS) when they were going to Fir’awn: “So say to him a kind word, perhaps he will remember or fear.” [Soorah Taa Haa 21:44]. The Prophet :saw: warned, “Beware of extremism, since those before you were only destroyed by extremism.” [Authenticated by Sh al-Albaanee in Silsilatul-Ahaadeethis-Saheehah (no.2183)] Salaat Time Freeware

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        • #34
          Re: Emotional blackmail

          Originally posted by HighDreamer View Post

          This is as much racist as the sexism of the stereotype of your imaginary "wife-beating-asian-male". There are Muslim men and women in all parts of the world who range from left liberal progressives to moderate objectivists to right wing fundamentalists, regardless of the places where they were raised up. In fact, a UK based brother (who was born and bred up in the UK) commented some time ago that the reason why Muslim men are nowadays becoming more and more addicted to porn is that the women have started to refuse them sex in the light of western feminism!

          As you've yourself said that there are exceptions everywhere, I suggest you remove these prejudices from your mind and be open to a spouse from anywhere in the world provided he is a Muslim, his Deen is correct and your views correlate. Nobody in Islam is asking you to marry a brother without seeing him or talking to him.

          Prejudices only help to widen the racial divides and generation gaps.
          can you please tell me how im being racist and sexist? Firstly IM NOT ASIAN and I WAS NOT referring to asian men so i dont know where you got the who 'wife-beating asian male' as i wasnt even talking about asian men but men from my own country! (i never said anything about wife beating ither- please keep up!).

          I'm somali and i was talking about somali brothers raised back in somalia. I don't think its neither racist or sexist in refering to what i actually exprienced and saw on my travels in somalia, my homeland. That doesnt mean i wouldnt marry a somali brother, just not one whos born and bred back home. I'd Prefer somali brothers in the west or any other muslim brother, from any race/culture whos born and bred here. I dont see how thats racist

          As for porn, brothers using porn has nothing to do with the fact that they dont get any 'loving' at home from the wife. If anything, muslim women are propabably the most submissive in that department. Brothers check porn because they have a problem with lower their gaze and a sickness in their heart. trying to blame it on muslim sisters and wives is just cheap

          Its best if you actually read my post properly, rather than making offensive assumptions (like im racist!!) and doing a crap cut and paste job.
          Last edited by JLo; 23-09-07, 09:58 PM.
          Please Re-update your Signature

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          • #35
            Re: Emotional blackmail

            Originally posted by JLo View Post
            can you please tell me how im being racist and sexist? Firstly IM NOT ASIAN and I WAS NOT referring to asian men so i dont know where you got the who 'wife-beating asian male' as i wasnt even talking about asian men but men from my own country! (i never said anything about wife beating ither- please keep up!).
            Kindly look again into the post. I admit I wrote the "asian" word with a thought that you were referring to the asian male. However, it would fit nicely the same way with a somali male. Prejudices are wrong. I am only asking you to fight your prejudice. And by sexist I was referring to those males who actually indulge in unIslamic practices like wife-beating and not you! I am sorry if I am unable to communicate that well, I was only saying that IF you think those men are sexist, then it only goes that you are being RACIST here by considering that EVERY male back home is a sexist.

            Originally posted by JLo View Post
            I'm somali and i was talking about somali brothers raised back in somalia. I don't think its neither racist or sexist in refering to what i actually exprienced and saw on my travels in somalia, my homeland. That doesnt mean i wouldnt marry a somali brother, just not one whos born and bred back home. I'd Prefer somali brothers in the west or any other muslim brother, from any race/culture whos born and bred here. I dont see how thats racist
            I don't see how this is NOT racist - claiming that every somali back home is not worthy of marriage!

            Originally posted by JLo View Post
            As for porn, brothers using porn has nothing to do with the fact that they dont get any 'loving' at home from the wife. If anything, muslim women are propabably the most submissive in that department. Brothers check porn because they have a problem with lower their gaze and a sickness in their heart. trying to blame it on muslim sisters and wives is just cheap
            You have again mistaken me! I am NOWHERE supporting this view and consider it extremely sexist and unIslamic! However, the point of mentioning it here was that it belongs to a person born and bred up in UK! So this only goes on to shatter your myth that being born and bred up somewhere leads to free thinking and being born and bred up somewhere leads to becoming an MCP. My only point is that any person in any part of the world who has access to books and thoughts and opinions can be a better thinker. Birth and breeding helps a lot, but cannot be used as a prejudice against someone.

            In the case of Brother Ismail, he is making the same mistake of assuming that a girl from Pakistan would be a non-interactive intellectually weak and socially unadjustable person, which is something I am advising he should drop from his mind. It is very much possible that she may holding a finance degree and might help to handle his loans and mortgages and bank accounts better than he himself can!

            Originally posted by JLo View Post
            Its best if you actually read my post properly, rather than making offensive assumptions (like im racist!!) and doing a crap cut and paste job.
            I again assure you that I wasn't making any offensive assumptions that you're racist! However, I was pointing out that having such a prejudice against brothers from third world countries is racism too.

            In all I had only two points against your post (NOT against you!):
            1. Considering all people from under-developed countries as not worthy of marriage.
            2. Advising rebellion agaisnt the parents, rather than sitting with them, taking time and sorting it out by objective reasoning (talking to the girl back in Pakistan, etc.)

            Having said that I assure you, I have nothing against you. :masha: you're a Muslim and as such worthy of my respect.

            I am sorry if my post has hurt your feelings in any way. I wish to apologize and reiterate that such was never my intention.

            :jkk:

            :salams
            Allaah said to His Prophets Moosaa and Haaroon (AS) when they were going to Fir’awn: “So say to him a kind word, perhaps he will remember or fear.” [Soorah Taa Haa 21:44]. The Prophet :saw: warned, “Beware of extremism, since those before you were only destroyed by extremism.” [Authenticated by Sh al-Albaanee in Silsilatul-Ahaadeethis-Saheehah (no.2183)] Salaat Time Freeware

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            • #36
              Re: Emotional blackmail

              hi i read ure blog m just 4 yrs behind on it :S
              what happened after that did u get married to ure cousin or did u marry the girl u had decided to spend the rest of ure life with? or is this battle of emotional blackmail still being fought.
              please let me know thank u.

              Comment


              • #37
                Re: Emotional blackmail

                Originally posted by seeking View Post
                please let me know thank u.
                lol, why are you so much interested to know? actually, i was wondering too...I didn't read OPs post or other essays. Just read med and puella's post and got the gist of the issue
                لا أريد مِنْكُمْ جَزَاء وَلا شُكُورًا

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