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  • Emotional blackmail

    Slaam to all the brothers and sisters out there. I got the feeling that my previous thread – arranged marriage was getting quite long, so I have created a new thread.

    Although I mentioned that I would speak to my father after Ramadan, I could not wait that long. I have been thinking about this situation for the last 2 months and needed to get things out in the open.

    Also to note here is that due to being under immense pressure, I did not mention that I have met a female friend recently who I have become good friends with. We have spoken to each other and really get on with each other. Let me assure you nothing has happened with each other. She is very religious person and when talking to her this has only been as friends.

    You would now be asking me “are you having doubts about the girl in Pakistan because of this girl that you have met?”

    Marriage is a life changing decision and I would have had my doubts/concerns about the girl in Pakistan regardless of my new friend. Although this girl is having some kind of impact on my thinking and decision making.

    Moving onto my conversation with my father/mother and sister. My sister is the only person from them who knows about this girl. My parents are unaware.

    I initially spoke to my sister, who went to Pakistan 6 yrs ago for an arranged marriage. This was not in the family but another family that lived in the village. My sister had never seen the man before and did not know anything about him. She did not want to go over and had doubts/concerns throughout the wedding. Even at the time of the nikha, she still did not want to go ahead with it. She went through with it just to stop my dad from embarrassment. Lucky for her she is happily married now with 2 children. Although she says she is happily married, I see then arguing a lot and sister talking to dad about her problems with her husband.

    During my conversation with her I expressed my doubts, although she did not fully appreciate my concerns she did try to understand where I was coming from. She said to me no ones going to physically force me to go over, as it has to be my decision although it will emotionally hurt my parents. She continued telling me how our dad rejected about 5 proposals from other families for her because he had spoken to the proposed husbands and that were not right for her.

    So in that sense my dad spent a lot of time finding the partner for my sister, and he was right as they are both happily married – so she says. Sister also went onto say that having doubts/concerns is only natural, but due to our cultural upbringing I cannot speak to this girl until after our wedding. I thought this was unfair.

    What surprised me was when she said “ITS YOUR WEDDING DAY, YOU ARE NOT SUPPOSE TO ENJOY IT, IT’S THE WAY WE DO THINGS, YOU ARE SUPPOSE TO HAVE THESE DOUBTS AND CONCERNS DURING THE WEDDING”.

    I totally disagree with what she said, as the wedding day should be a happy day for everyone involved.

    Overall when talking to sister, she was just as concern as I was, but decided to go ahead with her wedding.

    We then spoke to our parents. As its my dads brother, he was always going to get more upset that my mother. When my sister told him, he looked over at me and thought it was some kind of joke. When I told him I was having doubts he was shocked but stated that if I wanted to call it off its better to do it now rather than later when its even more closer to the wedding to even after the wedding.

    I could tell he was putting on a brave face and he then walked out of the room. He returned about 20 minutes later and told me to decided one way or the other. He said, he was my father and he had seen this girl and thought that she was right for me. He did say that as my father he had my best intentions at heart and would not find a partner that he thought would not be suitable for me.


    Is it just me being paranoid or is that look would have it that the perfect partner for me in his eyes just so happens to be his brothers daughter. Just too much of a coincidence for me.

    He has chosen 3 partners for my sisters and brother and they are all happily married – so they tell me. I that sense he has a good track record and more that likely this girl in Pakistan will be right for me. He can only tell me that the girl can speak very little english, but is a very nice person and as she is from within the family she will look after me. It will be a secure relationship in that sense.

    He was upset but said he would not force me. It had to be my choice because later on if it did not work out between us I could not say to him that I was forced or that I did it because he wanted me to get married.

    But then the emotional blackmail started. He said if I said no what will other people thing. He could never go back to Pakistan again and would not be able to show his face in public.

    He then said if I was to find my own partner, he would happily do the nikha, but after that we would not be welcome in the family home and I could no longer keep in contact with other family members. Basically I am being to told should I reject the girl in Pakistan then the whole family will stop talking to me.

    In that sense, I feel as though I have no choice but to get married in Pakistan. I dearly love my family and can’t imagine my life without them. I fully appreciate that its my own fault for getting myself into this horrible situation but there is very poor communication with our family.

    At the time of my father asking me about the girl in Pakistan my sister who got married in Pakistan was also present in the room. Would it not have been better for my sister to speak to me and explain how big a decision it was and also the doubts/concerns that she was having during her wedding. This would have assisted me with my decision making. I feel as thought my family members have tricked me into this position with the girl from Pakistan and cannot see anyway out of it.

    Regarding the other girl that I have met, we are only friends but have spoken about marriage. I have told her about my situation and she has told me that we cannot continue being friends whilst I am still 'engaged' with this other girl.

    When talking to this girl, it was through work and I did not intend it to get so serious. It was possibly bad timing that after my brother wedding I started to give serious consideration about my wedding and I also met this girl at the same time.

    Deep down in my heart I will like to be with the girl I have met. This way I am not walking into the unknown as we are friends and know each other alittle bit. Regarding the girl in Pakistan, my family are trying to reassure me but I keep thinking about the new friend that I have met.

    I know I am a horrible person and deserve what I get. I don’t mind if I get hurt, its just seeing your loved ones hurt which is the worse feeling of all.

    :(

  • #2
    Re: Emotional blackmail

    :( sometimes we dont always get what we want.
    SubhanAllah- have never ever understand how some parents will emotionally blackmail their children in such ways. I guess its not something im used to and not something i ahve witnessed and therefore it is alien to me and i cant really comprehend it. My parents would be concerned about my happiness primarily before worrying about what the community will have to say. This isnt to say that if a potential rishta was good or that they saw goodness in it that they would not try to sit me down and explain that they have my best interests at heart- but neither would they put up such conditions like not welcoming me in the home and family due to choosing my own spouse- subhanAllah. What can you do... our love for our parents and the ones who mean the most to us means we sometimes have to make big sacrifices. We just hope and pray inshaAllah that those are worth it and that Allah (swt) instill love and rehmaa into our marriage.

    What are you going to do now bro?
    *~* Learn Patience from Aasiyah (RA); Loyalty from Khadhija (RA); Sincerity from Aisha (RA) and Steadfastness from Fatima (RA).*~*

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: Emotional blackmail

      Wow..I feel for you bro..that's a very difficult situation to be in. I think you should consider the sister in Pakistan, because if she is a nice sister, you have absolutely nothing to lose. If you don't marry her, apparently you have a lot to lose. Being estranged from your family is not what you want in your life Subhanallah. Although I think your family needs to be way more flexible with this marriage thing..why is it so imperative that you marry your cousin? You're not the only guy in the world for her, if she's a nice girl there is no problem with getting her married with somebody else... If you can, go to Pakistan and check this sister out. You shouldn't agree to marry somebody you know nothing about. The prophet (saw) use to tell the sahaba to make sure they had a good look at who they planned to marry.. You can't gamble with marriage and you certainly can't gamble with people's feelings.

      As to what you should do from here on.. pray Istikhara. Did you try that yet?
      May we reach daruSalaam by His, and only His Decree
      I would die for the cause if I knew only to what degree
      *
      My Blog

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      • #4
        Re: Emotional blackmail

        you cannot expect your sister to step into the firing line here..this is purely between u and your parents..more so your father....doesnt matter what any other siblingsays..it is your relationship that willbe in ruins or not not theirs..and they would not want to displease your parents for you or for anyone...this is your tug of war im afraid...i can only say that from experience

        also...no you didnt mention the girl in your first post, and in all honesty you should have done...and if you dont marry the girl from pakistan and then all of a sudden this girl crops up from 'nowhere' of course your dad is going to put two and two together and come up with fifty...he will think not only have you humiliated him by rejecting thegirl he chose for you but you had a girlfriend all the time...although u say she isnt and we belieev that she isnt tis difficult to prove that to your parents when they are in a fit of anger im afraid...

        i might be sounding harsh, purely becaue i really feel for your dad...i can see his point of view completely adn im not saying you are being selfish..just that you have been cowardly to be honest..sorry but i feel you have..and it seems to me you dont want to marry this girl in pakistan because of the friend that you have who you do intend to marry inshaAllah.

        i have to say i am rarely harsh to people on ummah..i tend to joke around alot...but this is something that has struck a cord with me...i cannot say i envy yoy..i dont think anyone can...its really difficult for nayone to say what you should do one way or another..subhanAllah...Let allah decide for you...but i think you should put all your cards on the table and face the consequences of it.

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: Emotional blackmail

          bro istikhara. have u done that~????!
          “The great Imam ash-Shafi’, he went to his teacher Waki`
          Complaining about the weakness of his memory.
          He told him, ‘abandon rebellion, for knowledge is a light
          And the light of Allah is not bestowed upon a rebel.”

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: Emotional blackmail

            Im sorry bro but Im not buying this version of events. Firstly the issue of this other "friend" of yours - if she and you were as religious as you making out you wouldn't be "friends" in the first place. This is a devilish deception.

            Further from my experience bro you are starting to build up your own case for something you've already decided. This issue of emotional blackmail, Im being so sincere, Im confused etc DOESNT wash with me Im afraid. I apologise if that seems harsh but you're not the victim here - you're going down the path of being oppressor and its not something I can support.

            At the end of the day - your father seems a good man, mashaALLAH and I dont believe he is emotionally blackmailing you, rather just stating facts. No-one can force you to go back on your word, no-one can force you to wed = the decision is ultimately yours and yours alone and you are the one who is responsible for it; not mummy, not daddy, not chachajee

            You cant cut your actions off from yourself and blame it on others. Personally I've seen too many young people faffing around in this marriage malarkey like electric eels so I know what Im talking about. Make your decision, be a man and live with it. Trying to shift the blame onto your parents is despicable and frankly I think quite sly.

            You're playing a game here bro and you might be in self-denial but its blatantly what is going on here. You're trying to play the victim and sincere son malarkey but the facts of this case are pointing in one direction - parental manipulation as we call it, you're trying to manipulate our opinions and your parents to get what you want.

            May ALLAH Ta'ala guide you to that which is best and us also - ameen.
            Rajab is a month of cultivation, Shaban is month of irrigating the fields, and the month of Ramadhan is a month of reaping and harvesting.”

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: Emotional blackmail

              u know for once i have to agree with bhai med on this...your recent revelation of this girl has put a different spin on things and the fact that your dad seems like a lovely person..i really feel for him i have to be honest.

              bhai med is right..u need to be a man about this and make adecision inshaAllah

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: Emotional blackmail

                It's true, your dad does sound like he has nothing but your best interests in mind. Think long and hard over this one brother.

                But honestly..Istikhara. You pray it? Yes? No?..Maybe So?
                May we reach daruSalaam by His, and only His Decree
                I would die for the cause if I knew only to what degree
                *
                My Blog

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: Emotional blackmail

                  From what we have been informed his istikhaarah is not reliable as he is already inclining one way. It has to be done by an objective third party - preferably his mother in this case or an Ustaad.
                  Rajab is a month of cultivation, Shaban is month of irrigating the fields, and the month of Ramadhan is a month of reaping and harvesting.”

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: Emotional blackmail

                    Subhanallah. I've never heard of someone else doing istikhara for you. You learn something new everyday.

                    I assumed since the result of praying istikhara wasn't just the feeling afterwards but also how Allah(swt) makes one of the options more facilitated for you then the other, then you could still pray it for yourself even if you were leaning towards one way..?
                    May we reach daruSalaam by His, and only His Decree
                    I would die for the cause if I knew only to what degree
                    *
                    My Blog

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: Emotional blackmail

                      I'm confused.

                      So what you guys are saying is that this brother should spend the rest of his life with a lady he intends not to marry? Please, correct me if I'm wrong.
                      Give me a clear vision, that I may know where to stand and what to stand for - because unless I stand for something, I will fall for anything.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: Emotional blackmail

                        No. When the person is inclined one way then the istikhaarah is not reliable, bro.
                        Rajab is a month of cultivation, Shaban is month of irrigating the fields, and the month of Ramadhan is a month of reaping and harvesting.”

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: Emotional blackmail

                          kubs aint a bro..

                          hmm well stil..he shud get a 3rd party to do it!
                          “The great Imam ash-Shafi’, he went to his teacher Waki`
                          Complaining about the weakness of his memory.
                          He told him, ‘abandon rebellion, for knowledge is a light
                          And the light of Allah is not bestowed upon a rebel.”

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: Emotional blackmail

                            Originally posted by Medievalist View Post
                            No. When the person is inclined one way then the istikhaarah is not reliable, bro.
                            Oh.. I thought the whole point of istikhara was for you to become inclined to the way that's best for you in this life and the hereafter..well thanks for informing me, sis.
                            May we reach daruSalaam by His, and only His Decree
                            I would die for the cause if I knew only to what degree
                            *
                            My Blog

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Re: Emotional blackmail

                              Originally posted by zammy View Post
                              Subhanallah. I've never heard of someone else doing istikhara for you. You learn something new everyday.

                              I assumed since the result of praying istikhara wasn't just the feeling afterwards but also how Allah(swt) makes one of the options more facilitated for you then the other, then you could still pray it for yourself even if you were leaning towards one way..?
                              :jkk: ukhti amin

                              Question:
                              How can I benefit properly from istikhaarah?
                              After I prayed istikhaarah after someone came to propose marriage to me, I dreamt that the sister of the suitor was dressing me in a green suit and was telling me that her brother would not give anything but whatever was beautiful. I hope that you can tell me the meaning of this dream so that I can be sure whether I did istikhaarah right.

                              Answer:

                              Praise be to Allaah.


                              There are a number of things that should be noted:

                              Firstly:

                              With regard to the dream that you have seen, you should ask people who have knowledge of that, whose religious commitment and ‘aqeedah you trust, so that they may explain its meaning to you. Beware of ignorant people and charlatans.

                              Secondly:

                              Many people think that following istikhaarah there has to be a dream or a feeling of ease in the heart, and so on, but that is not the case. Even if no such thing happens when a person has prayed istikhaarah and done his best to find out what is best for him, such as consulting people, examining the issue and asking those who have experience, then he goes ahead and does it, then it is hoped that this will be what is best for him, even if he does not feel at ease in his heart in the beginning. Even if we assume that he does not succeed in this matter that he goes ahead with after praying istikhaarah, it may be good for him even if he does not know it, but his Lord knows, may He be exalted.

                              Ibn al-Haaj al-Maaliki said:

                              Some of them pray istikhaarah as prescribed in sharee’ah and then wait until they see a dream from which they will decide whether they should go ahead and do whatever they prayed istikhaarah about or not, or until someone else sees a dream for them. This does not count for anything, because the infallible one (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) told us to pray istikhaarah and consult others, not to rely on what is seen in dreams. End quote

                              Al-Madkhal, 4/37

                              Thirdly:

                              If we assume that the interpretation of the dream suggests something good, good dreams are no more than hints, but they cannot be relied on. Rather you should try to find out and ask about the one who has proposed marriage, make sure whether he is religiously committed and of good character, and other things that you should find out about him. If you are certain of these matters then the good dream is no more than a message to be of good cheer when proceeding.

                              We ask Allaah to make goodness easy for you, and to bless you.

                              And Allaah knows best

                              ************************************************** *******

                              Question:

                              I need your advise on the following, please. What happens if two people who are planning to get married both read their Istikharaah namaaz and only the woman gets the message and not the man. This sister saw herself and her future husband as being happy and together and she feels that ALLAH is telling her that they are right for each other. But what if the man doesn't get any sign/feeling/dream whatsoever. What do they do then? And for how many days does one have to read this namaaz. Some people say for 3 days others say for 7. Jazak Allah

                              Answer:

                              Praise be to Allaah.

                              The daleel (evidence) for Salaat al-Istikhaarah and the du’aa’ to be recited is the report narrated by al-Bukhaari (1109) and others from Jaabir ibn ‘Abd-Allaah (may Allaah be pleased with them both). For the commentary on this hadeeth and more details, please see question #2217 and 410.

                              With regard to what some people say, “then he should go ahead with whatever he feels happy with”, a hadeeth to this effect was narrated from the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) – narrated by Ibn al-Sunni – according to which he said, “If you are concerned about a matter, then make istikhaarah seven times, praying to your Lord, then see what you feel most drawn towards, and the good will be in that.”

                              Al-Nawawi said: its isnaad is ghareeb, and it includes narrators whom I do not know. (al-Adhkaar, p. 132).

                              Al-Haafiz ibn Hajar said: if this were proven, it could be taken as evidence, but its isnaad is very weak (waahin jiddan). (al-Fath, 11/223)

                              Al-Haafiz al-‘Iraaqi said: it contains a narrator who is known to be da’eef jiddan (very weak), namely Ibraaheem ibn al-Baraa’.. Therefore the hadeeth is da’eef jiddan. (al-Futoohaat al-Rabbaaniyyah, 3/357)

                              The correct view is that when Allaah makes something easy for you – after having decreed it and accepted your du’aa’ – this is a sign that it is good to go ahead and do it. The existence of obstacles and difficulties is an indication that Allaah is pushing His slave away from doing it. This meaning will be very clear when one ponders the meaning of the hadeeth of Jaabir concerning al-istikhaarah, where the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said:

                              “… O Allaah, if You know this affair – [and here he should mention it] – is good for me in relation to my religion, my life, and end, then decree and facilitate it for me, and bless me with it, and if You know this affair to be ill for me towards my religion, my life, and end, then remove it from me and remove me from it, and decree for me what is good wherever it be and make me satisfied with such.”

                              Ibn ‘Allaan – after transmitting the scholarly view that the hadeeth of Anas is da’eef (weak) – said: Therefore it was said: that after (doing istikhaarah) he should do what he wants (i.e., even if he does not feel that sense of being happy), because whatever happens after doing istikhaarah is good…

                              Al-Haafiz ibn Hajar said: Al-Haafiz Zayn al-Deen al-‘Iraaqi said (concerning doing something after praying istikhaarah): Whatever he does, there will be good in it. This is supported by what is said at the end of the hadeeth of Ibn Mas’ood according to some of its isnaads: ‘Then let him make his decision.’ I (Ibn Hajar) say: I have already discussed above and explained that its narrators (i.e., the narrators who added the phrase ‘Then let him make his decision) are da’eef (weak). But this is still stronger than the narrator of that hadeeth (i.e., the hadeeth which says, ‘then see what you feel most drawn towards’). (al-Futoohaat al-Rabaaniyyah, 3/355-357)

                              Another of the myths that are widespread among people is that after praying istikhaarah you should sleep, and whatever good you see in your dream that makes you happy means that what you want to do is good and will be made easy for you, otherwise it is not good. (This is what the questioner meant by saying “gets the message”). There is no saheeh daleel (evidence) for this as far as we know.

                              The above does not mean that if you feel happy it is not a sign, but this should not be regarded as the only sign about whether or not the matter is good. People often make istikhaarah about something they like or want to do, so they feel happy about it from the outset.

                              Shaykh al-Islam [Ibn Taymiyah] (may Allaah have mercy on him) said concerning the matter of feeling happy about something: if he makes istakhaarah, then whatever Allaah makes him feel happy about and makes easy for him, this is what Allaah has chosen for him. (Majmoo’ al-Fataawaa, 10/539).

                              There is a difference between making feeling happy the only sign and making it one of several signs. There is no set time period for salaat al-istikhaarah; it is permissible to repeat it more than once, but there is no limit to how many times. The person may offer the du’aa’ before or after saying the salaam. And Allaah knows best.
                              Islam Q&A
                              Sheikh Muhammed Salih Al-Munajjid

                              ************************************************** ********


                              How to benefit properly from Istikhaarah


                              http://www.islam-qa.com/index.php?ref=72255&ln=eng
                              Last edited by *asiya*; 20-09-07, 10:38 PM.
                              "O you who believe! Stand out firmly for justice, as witnesses to Allah, even as against yourselves, or your parents, or your kin, and whether it be (against) rich or poor: for Allah can best protect both. Follow not the lusts (of your hearts), lest you swerve, and if you distort (justice) or decline to do justice, verily Allah is well-acquainted with all that you do." [An-Nisa 4:135]

                              The Prophet :saw: said:

                              "Whosoever leaves off obedience and separates from the Jamaa'ah and dies, he dies a death of jaahiliyyah. Whoever fights under the banner of the blind, becoming angry for 'asabiyyah (nationalism/tribalism/partisanship) or calling to 'asabiyyah, or assisting 'asabiyyah, then dies, he dies a death of jaahiliyyah."

                              muslim

                              Narrated 'Abdullah:

                              The Prophet, said, "Abusing a Muslim is Fusuq (evil doing) and killing him is Kufr (disbelief)." sahih bukhari


                              "Creeping upon you is the diseases of those people before you: envy and hatred. And hatred is the thing that shaves. I do not say it shaves the hair but it shaves the religion!

                              By the One in whose Hand is my soul, you will not enter paradise until you believe, and you will not believe until you love one another. Certainly, let me inform you of that which may establish such things: spread the greetings and peace among yourselves."

                              [Recorded by Imam Ahmad and Al-Tirmidhi]

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