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  • #16
    Originally posted by ten_toes View Post

    Who is a king? If women are Queens and princesses, are all women married to Kings?
    Yeah, let's go with that. Sounds sweet to me.

    Comment


    • #17
      Originally posted by imran1976 View Post

      If it's mega faulty why it's successful here, specially among the Pashtuns, who are probably the most religious people here?

      I gave you the ingredients of a successful joint family system:
      a) wise head
      b) strong men
      c) compassionate women

      see, we live in a different society, we have our own dynamics --- we need to have a close knitted big family, it also serves as a warning to bad people (like they would know that there are many male members in the house) -- sometimes when one of us is struggling financially, this family structure saves us from lots of headaches.
      Culturally successful..yes, islamically..(a big fat ?)

      Joint family system (JFS) is..was..a foreign concept, an alternative to the Islamic way of living. It became acceptable a practice when it became the norm ('urf) among Muslims of the subcontinent. So you have this arrangement of living that could work islamically IF people follow it accordingly BUT people very often don't and misuse and/or abuse this particular system. Let me point out why it is mega faulty:

      1. i. Freemixing- now the pashtuns, Imran, may practice segregation but be honest, how many desis really practice segregation in their own household? If anything, it is their house so what they say, how they say it..works, not what Islam says

      1.ii. since everyone grow up and/or live together, you wouldn't know who is a cousin for instance and who is not. The concept of mahram, ghayr mahram is lost somewhere

      2. The head of the household- the husband is the maintainer and protector of his family, the head of the household..not the grandparent, uncle or even the wife or the son. Men, desi men that is, as sons and brothers, are often coddled..when they get married and they continue to live in a joint family system, they don't get to exercise that right, they often can't make independent decisions without consulting a dozen relatives, where's the personal growth in this?

      3.i. Role of women in JFS - women are expected to serve any/everyone in the household especially a daughter in law, she is expected to do things culturally that is not expected of her Islamically and often women, and men, don't know any different and many a relationship have gone south over cultural (personal) expectations not being fulfilled

      3.ii. hijabi/ niqabi women often have a tough time observing hijab/ niqab from ghayr mehram in a joint family system, some jahil people even force them to stop observing altogether because 'she is married now and she has to listen to her husband and/or his family'..we know there is no obedience to a creature in disobedience to the Creator and a woman is only answerable to her husband, not his family but people often know not or know but heed not

      3.iii. a woman is allowed her own, separate accommodations - when Islam accords her that right, who are we to take it away from her? and it's not just for her but her family, obviously, and it is also an opportunity for the husband and the wife to grow and learn together without any meddling from his or her family and other pesky relatives

      This cultural practice may have some good but it has caused a whole lot of (avoidable) problems and (unnecessary) drama in countless homes over many, many years. Of course this is a general view but I am fairly sure it describes majority of desi JFS households today.

      Comment


      • #18
        https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xh0U...nglishVerified

        33:15 - 34:15

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        • #19
          Mahr related question ....why do the women value cash as mahr so much?
          Unless your groom has mega bucks he's probably not going to be able to give a huge amount and it will be spent in no time.
          Wouldn't something along the lines of gold make more sense to request? Even a small amount ....

          Comment


          • #20
            Originally posted by MyUsernameIs... View Post
            Mahr related question ....why do the women value cash as mahr so much?
            Unless your groom has mega bucks he's probably not going to be able to give a huge amount and it will be spent in no time.
            Wouldn't something along the lines of gold make more sense to request? Even a small amount ....
            Yeah gold is far superior.

            A lot of Bengalis request gold I think.

            Comment


            • #21
              Originally posted by MyUsernameIs... View Post
              Mahr related question ....why do the women value cash as mahr so much?
              Unless your groom has mega bucks he's probably not going to be able to give a huge amount and it will be spent in no time.
              Wouldn't something along the lines of gold make more sense to request? Even a small amount ....
              in our part of the world, normally it's the Wali who decides the amount/form of mahr -- cash is readily available, so it's the normal form + both parents & husband gifts gold to the bride. (though it's becoming difficult now due to high price of gold)
              "Europe died in Bosnia and was buried in Syria. Bodies of innocent children washing ashore are the
              western civilization's tombstones"


              Rajab Tayyab Erdogan

              Comment


              • #22
                Originally posted by MyUsernameIs... View Post
                Mahr related question ....why do the women value cash as mahr so much?
                Unless your groom has mega bucks he's probably not going to be able to give a huge amount and it will be spent in no time.
                Wouldn't something along the lines of gold make more sense to request? Even a small amount ....
                What would the difference be though? You can just buy gold with the cash given and if you request gold then he will just use cash to buy the gold for you.

                Comment


                • #23
                  Originally posted by RuthlessSoftie View Post

                  What would the difference be though? You can just buy gold with the cash given and if you request gold then he will just use cash to buy the gold for you.
                  Gold is a safe haven asset and holds its value over time.

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    Originally posted by Stoic Believer View Post

                    Yeah gold is far superior.

                    A lot of Bengalis request gold I think.
                    they request gold and money usually
                    you give mahr money or gold then as a gift you give more gold

                    then they give the groom furniture

                    stupid traditions that make life hard for people and put people into debt

                    marriage hard
                    zina easy
                    progression of the 20 and 21st century

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      Originally posted by RuthlessSoftie View Post

                      What would the difference be though? You can just buy gold with the cash given and if you request gold then he will just use cash to buy the gold for you.
                      As Stoic said gold holds its value far better than cash ...yes you could gift cash to purchase gold but most likely the cash will get squandered before you get to purchasing gold. Hence i thought women would find it preferable.

                      imran1976 its similar amongst my family. The bride is always gifted gold and the mahr is probably decided on the morning of the nikah.
                      Its such a miniscule detail that no one ever mentions it ....the gifts and the gold is what gets all the attention.
                      But after reading the mahr thread i was slightly confused why sisters place so much emphasis on it

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        If you want to get married, stay far, far away from social media, reddit, Islamic forums, etc... where people discuss marriage. I find that a lot of these places just make you more fearful of marriage or more prone to care only about your rights and not the rights of your spouse. It's also filled with either single people who have no clue what they're talking about or married people who may be going through issues, which is why they seek out these platforms for help.

                        Staying away from it will help you have a healthier view of marriage.
                        وَإِذَا سَأَلَكَ عِبَادِي عَنِّي فَإِنِّي قَرِيبٌ أُجِيبُ دَعْوَةَ الدَّاعِ إِذَا دَعَانِ فَلْيَسْتَجِيبُواْ لِي وَلْيُؤْمِنُواْ بِي لَعَلَّهُمْ يَرْشُدُونَ
                        "And when My servants ask you (O Muhammad concerning Me, then answer them), I am indeed near (to them by My knowledge). I respond to the invocations of the supplicant when he calls on Me (without any mediator or intercessor). So let them obey Me and believe in Me, so that they may be led aright."
                        Surah al-Baqarah ayah 186
                        [2:186]

                        .:.
                        .:. Perfer et Obdura : Dolor Hic Tibi Proderit Olim .:.
                        Be patient and strong : someday this pain will be useful to you

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          Originally posted by Pippin1376 View Post
                          If you want to get married, stay far, far away from social media, reddit, Islamic forums, etc... where people discuss marriage. I find that a lot of these places just make you more fearful of marriage or more prone to care only about your rights and not the rights of your spouse. It's also filled with either single people who have no clue what they're talking about or married people who may be going through issues, which is why they seek out these platforms for help.

                          Staying away from it will help you have a healthier view of marriage.
                          Thats not entirely true, about 50% is weed out the gender wars look at it from a neutral perspective hear both genders concerns, issues and the common reasons people seek help here and comkon solutions people bring and you can learn alot

                          some people wont have no issues at all whilst others will but the reality speaks for itself in terms of the number of successful happy marriages its less than unsuccessful

                          you can go hear lectures or talks about by duaat and councillors and hear the same stuff just less blunt

                          most of the people who commented on the mahr th thread for example were long time users not someone whos currently on uf for a problem

                          I personally learnt alot about marriage and life from uf i joined innocent thinking theres no problems in the ummah then after being hear for a while i realised from seeing all the threads that this ummah faces nearly all the same social issues that kuffar face too this includes all the dramatic marriage issues but alhamdullilah i learnt from the forum so i wont make the same mistakes as others did or atleast i can reduce the chances of it happening which ive been doing



                          Comment


                          • #28
                            Originally posted by Stoic Believer View Post

                            Yeah gold is far superior.

                            A lot of Bengalis request gold I think.
                            Yes gold along with money
                            my username, what makes you think the cash will be spent? It can be saved unless that person doesn't know how to manage their finances

                            Both will require you (husband or wife) to give zakat , just something to bear in mind



                            'Whatever it be wherein ye differ, the decision thereof is with Allah: such is Allah my Lord: In Him I trust, and to Him I turn.' The Holy Qu'ran Al Shura (Consultation)

                            So, which of the favours of your lord will you deny? ~ Surah Ar Rahman

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              I dont know what a normal amount of mahr is anymore, so many people say 'i wouldn't have less than x' (obvs depends on the persons circumstances) but ive never really thought it matters aslong as the person can provide and wont expect you to work(obvs if something happens outside their control n u hve to work aa a result thts different) but personally i find it such an awkward topic especially if the wali doesnt handle it, like what are you supposed to say when the topic is brought up. Cos ppl might think eh why such a low amount or if u say high they might think you're money minded(even if you're not). Not really sure how this sort of thing is even properly discussed when the potential bride is the one who is expected to handle it. Good point about gold btw.. i never really thought of that, compared to money. The thing is u cant spend gold and gtta remember to pay zakaah on it too obvs.
                              And with Him are the keys of the Ghayb (all that is hidden), none knows them but He. And He knows whatever there is in the land and in the sea; not a leaf falls, but He knows it. There is not a grain in the darkness of the earth nor anything fresh or dry, but is written in a Clear Record�
                              [al-An�aam 6:59]

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                Infact if you dont work i find anything finance related a bit awkward, because ive never really had to rely on other people and i would hate to feel like a burden or for someone to secretly feel that they mind giving you money or think 'what is she spending it on.' Cos even if you're literally using it to buy things like makeup/perfume to look nice at home for your spouse, then they still might think that. Its one reason im worried cos not everyone wants to work and after kids too, and imagine your spouse making u feel like that. If you are open and close im sure it wouldnt be awks and he would trust u to spend and not mind at all without telling him(cos it literally makes you feel like a child otherwise). And im referring to normal stuff not splashing out on designer goods or spending beyond ones mean. Cos if ones husband is poor then thats completely different ofcourse. Idk its one of those topics. I would hope that we can be completely open about finances and treat me like an adult lol. Because i would happily manage his finances and help him if he was happy for me to. And obvs i would spend anything i had and work if we fell on hard times, i know things unexpected crop up in life at times. I just feel its awful when its like 'this is my money' and you feel like someone is viewing you as materialistic/after their money, and they dont even want to provide(not that they can't afford thats v different) but just don't want to.
                                Last edited by Creamcake; 15-06-21, 02:53 PM.
                                And with Him are the keys of the Ghayb (all that is hidden), none knows them but He. And He knows whatever there is in the land and in the sea; not a leaf falls, but He knows it. There is not a grain in the darkness of the earth nor anything fresh or dry, but is written in a Clear Record�
                                [al-An�aam 6:59]

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