Ads by Muslim Ad Network

Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Proper rulings based on Quran and Hadith given laundry list of "issues"

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Proper rulings based on Quran and Hadith given laundry list of "issues"

    Assalamu Alaikum,

    I am a reverted Muslim and very much lacking in some otherwise common knowledge over my situation that I am in. I'm going to begin with my biggest issue and then all of the "small issues". My big issue is my wife (born muslim and practicing) is struggling to get pregnant. It's been over 2 years now, thousands of dollars spent on doctors, testing and more tests only to be told, "you're both healthy!". The first 6 months, my wife was adamant on getting pregnant while I was reluctant, trying to adjust to being married and getting my feet underneath us financially. As time has passed this has changed and it's been growing into frustration for both of us.

    By no means do I blame her, but she has been VERY stressed being unable to conceive, but even more-so she has had problem after problem after problem with her mother and siblings. This is my second issue/concern all wrapped into one;

    She has 2 brothers, both of which are older than myself (I'm 28), a widowed mother, an older sister, and 2 very young half-sisters (mother's children with another husband).

    1. She is/was financially supporting one of her brother's who is older than myself because he refused to work and hold a job.
    a. I understand helping family and I very well may be in the wrong here but this is not her responsibility and is creating an immense amount of stress on her.
    2. She is financially supporting her mother (widowed) and 2 younger female siblings.
    a. She has 2 brothers that are supposed to be "Men" - is this not their obligation? Why should she be responsible for this? Again, creating stress on her.
    3. Between the two brother's in the last 2 years alone she has had to deal directly with Police (do to either illegal activities on their parts or literally losing their minds and trying to hurt people).
    4. She never grew up with her mother, was never raised by her and instead raised by an abusive step-mother and is now wanting her mother and siblings to "move into" MY home.
    a. We have had her mother and siblings here for the last 5 weeks to finalize immigration, but on a daily basis she is either fighting, screaming or arguing with her mother or sisters multiple times a day.
    b. This is not only causing her stress but also stress for me.
    5. Her sister is now going through a divorce which she is in the middle of, more stress.
    a. She encouraged the divorce. I strongly disagreed with her on this.
    b. Her sister can barely speak english and I believe is going to struggle greatly to not only support herself but also her 2 children. I fear this will be yet another "financial obligation" that my wife now has to stress over.
    6. Despite all of this financial support to her family if I ask for help financially so we can pay the bills or get caught up on debt she becomes offended and reminds me how I never take her anywhere.
    a. We've been on over 8 vacations in the last 2 years each of which costing anywhere from $500-$4000. Each time this puts a huge burden on me financially despite me advising her that I am unable to do this. It ends up on a credit card and then, I continue to climb deeper and deeper into debt.

    The above is simply a summary over all of my "secondary" issues but what it comes down to is I believe that all of these scenarios are causing her huge amounts of stress and is the reason for the lack in being able to get pregnant (I'm sure this can be regarding both of us). All of these issues are creating hardships between us and our Marriage. I am not ok with her financially supporting her male siblings because they refuse to work, I am not ok with her mother and 2 children moving into my house; dealing with the constant fighting. I am not ok with her trying to be "the father" of her family. In every single one of the scenarios above I have advised her to keep out of it, it's not your responsibility, your brother's need to step up but she does not listen to me.

    I respect her supporting her mother but I cannot accept having her move into my house. I'm 28 years old! I didn't get married so that I could become responsible for my spouse's family! My own family struggles financially but they at least work (including my mother!). At the end of the day it causes extreme stress for both of us and as far as I am concerned OUR (my wife and I) family should come before our individual families that we came from.

    I feel like a guest in my own home with her mother and younger sisters "visiting" and they're still going to be here for at least another month. On top of this my wife knows that I am struggling with all of this and now has her sister whose getting divorced now visiting our house for several weeks with her 2 children. I am literally in my own home with 6 women now and am not sure how much longer I can take it with all of the fighting and screaming, and our 2 nieces constantly screeching and crying because they fight with one another. Despite bringing up these concerns I am considered an "evil" person by her. I feel that this is completely unfair and my kindness is being taken to advantaged of.

    By no means do I know all and I am sure I am misguided in some of my feelings, therefore I would appreciate any insights regarding my situation, the above scenarios and what is correct according to the Quran and Sunnah?
    Last edited by Ozone; 1 week ago.

  • #2
    In Islam, one of the rights of a husband, is for the wife not to allow anyone in the house that he doesn't want, even if its a family member (that they know will cause trouble). https://islamqa.info/en/answers/1120...his-permission
    That being said, kicking out her family will probably cause her even more stress.

    Another right of the husband is for the wife to obey the husband when he commands something within the framework of compassion and kindness that will benefit the family, not commanding for trivial things like a servant (as long as its not forbidding acts of worship or commanding haram). https://islamqa.info/en/answers/2388...er-how-trivial
    So like when you told her to stay out of her sisters marriage and not encourage a divorce, she should have listened.

    When it comes to financially supporting family members, the child has to support the parents if they can't support themselves, if they have poor female relatives they have to support them, if they have poor male relatives that can't work they have to support them, but if they can work yet refuse to then its not their responsibility. https://islamqa.org/hanafi/daruliftaa/7933
    But this also means that this has to come out of her pocket, she can't take the money from you, unless you offer or agree on it.

    One of the rights of the wife is that she has to be provided for by the husband when it comes to food and accommodation within the means and abilities of the husband. https://islamqa.info/en/answers/1068...ts-of-the-wife
    This means you shouldn't be asking her to help you with the bills, again unless she offers or if you guys are really struggling and she agrees, but its your responsibility as the husband. But this also means you should probably put your foot down when it comes to unnecessary spending like countless vacations that are putting a hole in your wallet.

    Another right of the wife is that she can spend her wealth as she wishes, meaning her income if she works, mahr, or gifts she gets, you don't have a say in how she spends it. https://islamqa.info/en/answers/4037...nds-permission
    So if she wishes to spend her money on her family, its her wish.

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by Mufti Cheesecake View Post
      In Islam, one of the rights of a husband, is for the wife not to allow anyone in the house that he doesn't want, even if its a family member (that they know will cause trouble). https://islamqa.info/en/answers/1120...his-permission
      That being said, kicking out her family will probably cause her even more stress.

      Another right of the husband is for the wife to obey the husband when he commands something within the framework of compassion and kindness that will benefit the family, not commanding for trivial things like a servant (as long as its not forbidding acts of worship or commanding haram). https://islamqa.info/en/answers/2388...er-how-trivial
      So like when you told her to stay out of her sisters marriage and not encourage a divorce, she should have listened.

      When it comes to financially supporting family members, the child has to support the parents if they can't support themselves, if they have poor female relatives they have to support them, if they have poor male relatives that can't work they have to support them, but if they can work yet refuse to then its not their responsibility. https://islamqa.org/hanafi/daruliftaa/7933
      But this also means that this has to come out of her pocket, she can't take the money from you, unless you offer or agree on it.

      One of the rights of the wife is that she has to be provided for by the husband when it comes to food and accommodation within the means and abilities of the husband. https://islamqa.info/en/answers/1068...ts-of-the-wife
      This means you shouldn't be asking her to help you with the bills, again unless she offers or if you guys are really struggling and she agrees, but its your responsibility as the husband. But this also means you should probably put your foot down when it comes to unnecessary spending like countless vacations that are putting a hole in your wallet.

      Another right of the wife is that she can spend her wealth as she wishes, meaning her income if she works, mahr, or gifts she gets, you don't have a say in how she spends it. https://islamqa.info/en/answers/4037...nds-permission
      So if she wishes to spend her money on her family, its her wish.
      Regarding the first bolded part,I read the fatwa you posted and do the scholars really mean that the husband can dictate to the wife what she can and can't do, outside of the marital home? For example, what if she knows her sister's marriage better than he does and that's why she is advocating for the divorce?

      Regarding the second bolded section, in order for it to be obligatory for the child to support his parents they should also be unable to earn their living from a suitable job, please see the fatwa below:
      https://islamqa.info/en/answers/1793...-earn-a-living

      And the fatwa you linked mentioned that women are not obliged to work without actually giving any daleel, as far as I know only the husband has the duty for providing for her and perhaps the father so if these two are not present then she needs to provide for herself, so if a woman doesn't work by choice why would it be obligatory to provide for her?

      in order for it to obligatory to provide for relatives the following three conditions need to be met:

      They should be poor and have no wealth or source of income which would make them independent of being maintained by others. If they have enough wealth or income to make them independent of means, then it is not obligatory to spend on their maintenance.

      (ii)The one who is obliged to spend on their maintenance should have enough to do so, surplus to the costs of his own maintenance, either from his wealth or his income.

      (iii)The one who spends should be an heir, because Allaah says (interpretation of the meaning): “And on the (father’s) heir is incumbent the like of that (which was incumbent on the father)” [al-Baqarah 2:233]. And because there are ties of kinship between those who would inherit from one another which dictate that the heir is more entitled to the wealth of the one who leaves it behind than anyone else, so by virtue of the ties of kinship he is to be singled out for maintenance rather than anyone else. If he is not an heir, then he is not obliged to spend on his maintenance. End quote.

      https://islamqa.info/en/answers/1065...-on-his-sister

      Comment


      • #4
        Thank you both for your answers, I do appreciate it. Correct me if I am wrong but helping to sustain her mother is OK, but supporting the rest of her family is not her responsibility? The 2 males are fully capable of working, the older sister is fully capable of working, the two younger sisters are fully capable of working - yet none of them do. I guess what do you classify as poor? Refusing to work to sustain yourself, wasting $100's of dollars that you receive on literal garbage food (chips for breakfast/lunch and deserts for dinner is what they've eaten while here and refused food that I made myself multiple times). As someone who has a past addiction with drugs prior to finding god, I can honestly say that the best thing that happened to me was I got cut-off. It forced me to change, to adapt - right now these people are living a disgusting luxurious lifestyle sitting on my couch eating chips watching TV. Why should that be supported?

        I do understand it's my wifes money and is up to her on how to spend it but it is so frustrating to see her help people that refuse to even help themselves! What she get's in return is arguments and fighting from all of them!

        Edit: I suppose another question I have; based on my understanding on the above she should be financially supporting - but is it her responsibility to be talking to the Divorce laywers for her sister, to the schools for her sister? To the credit card companies, phone companies for her mother? It seems like every day she is on the phone with someone claiming to be someone else in her family because again they refuse to help themselves.
        Last edited by Ozone; 1 week ago.

        Comment


        • #5
          hasan2013

          For the first point, yes from what I understand. But its not just a straight commandment, its obedience based on consultation and understanding. So a husband and wife would've talked about their disagreements/decisions, conveying both their positions, hearing both sides, and then if theres still disagreement between the two, the husband has to make the executive decision based on the consultation, not disregarding it. https://www.islamweb.net/en/article/...ey-to-paradise
          So in the brothers case, if he commanded her to stay out of his sisters marriage, and she knew something that her husband didn't, she should've made it known, and the brother should've taken in that information for a decision. And even in this case this is something that has had an affect on their marital home and his wife, I'm sure he knew that, which is why he commanded her what he did.

          For the second point, yes I agree, I mentioned "the child has to support the parents if they can't support themselves", the link mentioned it too.

          And the fatwa you linked mentioned that women are not obliged to work without actually giving any daleel, as far as I know only the husband has the duty for providing for her and perhaps the father so if these two are not present then she needs to provide for herself, so if a woman doesn't work by choice why would it be obligatory to provide for her?
          So in general women are not recommended to work, for their protection and so there isn't potential for fitnah, they have the right to work as per the conditions of sharia especially if they need to financially support themselves, but its not something thats obligatory like it is for men. https://islamqa.info/en/answers/1068...tside-the-home

          When it comes to supporting parents and relatives its obligatory on both the male and females, but its also based on the condition that they have the means to do so, as mentioned in the link. So if a woman doesn't have wealth to financially support their parents and relatives, its not obligatory on them. I understand though theres a minority opinion that says its only obligatory on the males (IslamQA info mentions specficially for parents too that its obligatory for both male and female, but I haven't seen them make any distinction for other relatives: https://islamqa.info/en/answers/4499...bands-approval )

          About there being an heir, the fatwa I linked didn't mention it, maybe theres a difference of opinion, I'm not sure about that. Something to look into.

          So in the brothers case, it seems that its only obligatory for his wife if she is capable to do so, to financially support her mother, and her two young half sisters if their father has passed. The two brothers should be finding work, and the older sister I'm not too sure about her circumstances (since she has kids, theres different opinions on ex husband paying for child support).

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by Ozone View Post
            Thank you both for your answers, I do appreciate it. Correct me if I am wrong but helping to sustain her mother is OK, but supporting the rest of her family is not her responsibility? The 2 males are fully capable of working, the older sister is fully capable of working, the two younger sisters are fully capable of working - yet none of them do. I guess what do you classify as poor? Refusing to work to sustain yourself, wasting $100's of dollars that you receive on literal garbage food (chips for breakfast/lunch and deserts for dinner is what they've eaten while here and refused food that I made myself multiple times). As someone who has a past addiction with drugs prior to finding god, I can honestly say that the best thing that happened to me was I got cut-off. It forced me to change, to adapt - right now these people are living a disgusting luxurious lifestyle sitting on my couch eating chips watching TV. Why should that be supported?

            I do understand it's my wifes money and is up to her on how to spend it but it is so frustrating to see her help people that refuse to even help themselves! What she get's in return is arguments and fighting from all of them!

            Edit: I suppose another question I have; based on my understanding on the above she should be financially supporting - but is it her responsibility to be talking to the Divorce laywers for her sister, to the schools for her sister? To the credit card companies, phone companies for her mother? It seems like every day she is on the phone with someone claiming to be someone else in her family because again they refuse to help themselves.
            Like tbh, I don't think you should be worrying about what is and isn't obligatory in sharia for your wife to financially support right now, even if its not obligatory she's not going to stop supporting them, because she cares about them. Sometimes you just gotta show people the way, not everyone is strong enough to find the way themselves after getting cut off, theres many people who don't find their way back. Like you guys are helping them live, are you guys doing anything to try to get them to be independent? Those two brothers do they want to change, what have they said when you talked to them, can you try to find them some halal work? The three sisters that are living with you guys, can you try to find them some halal work? If they refuse then give them an ultimatum, the sisters are living in your house, give them a timeline or you'll kick them out. You and your wife need to make a plan to push them to be independent. You can still advise your wife on how she spends her money, make her understand that her sisters are wasting money and that she needs to fix their allowance.

            Thats just my opinion, my family had to do somethings similar to get our cousins who refused to work to start being independent.

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by Mufti Cheesecake View Post
              hasan2013

              For the first point, yes from what I understand. But its not just a straight commandment, its obedience based on consultation and understanding. So a husband and wife would've talked about their disagreements/decisions, conveying both their positions, hearing both sides, and then if theres still disagreement between the two, the husband has to make the executive decision based on the consultation, not disregarding it. https://www.islamweb.net/en/article/...ey-to-paradise
              So in the brothers case, if he commanded her to stay out of his sisters marriage, and she knew something that her husband didn't, she should've made it known, and the brother should've taken in that information for a decision. And even in this case this is something that has had an affect on their marital home and his wife, I'm sure he knew that, which is why he commanded her what he did.

              For the second point, yes I agree, I mentioned "the child has to support the parents if they can't support themselves", the link mentioned it too.



              So in general women are not recommended to work, for their protection and so there isn't potential for fitnah, they have the right to work as per the conditions of sharia especially if they need to financially support themselves, but its not something thats obligatory like it is for men. http://<b>https://islamqa.info/en/an...e-the-home</b>

              When it comes to supporting parents and relatives its obligatory on both the male and females, but its also based on the condition that they have the means to do so, as mentioned in the link. So if a woman doesn't have wealth to financially support their parents and relatives, its not obligatory on them. I understand though theres a minority opinion that says its only obligatory on the males (IslamQA info mentions specficially for parents too that its obligatory for both male and female, but I haven't seen them make any distinction for other relatives: https://islamqa.info/en/answers/4499...bands-approval )

              About there being an heir, the fatwa I linked didn't mention it, maybe theres a difference of opinion, I'm not sure about that. Something to look into.

              So in the brothers case, it seems that its only obligatory for his wife if she is capable to do so, to financially support her mother, and her two young half sisters if their father has passed. The two brothers should be finding work, and the older sister I'm not too sure about her circumstances (since she has kids, theres different opinions on ex husband paying for child support).
              Jazak Allah khair for the discussion bro, I'm learning a lot.

              Regarding the obedience aspect, I could see a woman very easily getting annoyed with having to obey the husband even in issues that are not directly related to him, what's to say the wife just refusing to discuss her family with him in the future thereby foregoing the need to obey him in the first place?

              Regarding the bolded fatwa, I am not sure if this fatwa can really be applied in the west, the conditions in this fatwa that are tied to women working outside are next to impossible to meet in a secular society, the bottom line is that if a woman doesn't have a husband then she needs to work although a fatwa from a trustworthy scholar would be required to determine what the guidelines would need to be for her taking into account that she lives in the west.

              Depending on another person to provide for her is not from Islam because Islam teaches us the opposite, it teaches us to earn our own living regardless of our gender. Although I do agree that mixed workplaces can be risky for a Muslimah but she just needs be wise when dealing with situations and the best case would be for her to earn her living from her home if possible. Regarding the fitnah, I think women may be better at tackling this than men in general.


              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by hasan2013 View Post

                Jazak Allah khair for the discussion bro, I'm learning a lot.

                Regarding the obedience aspect, I could see a woman very easily getting annoyed with having to obey the husband even in issues that are not directly related to him, what's to say the wife just refusing to discuss her family with him in the future thereby foregoing the need to obey him in the first place?

                Regarding the bolded fatwa, I am not sure if this fatwa can really be applied in the west, the conditions in this fatwa that are tied to women working outside are next to impossible to meet in a secular society, the bottom line is that if a woman doesn't have a husband then she needs to work although a fatwa from a trustworthy scholar would be required to determine what the guidelines would need to be for her taking into account that she lives in the west.

                Depending on another person to provide for her is not from Islam because Islam teaches us the opposite, it teaches us to earn our own living regardless of our gender. Although I do agree that mixed workplaces can be risky for a Muslimah but she just needs be wise when dealing with situations and the best case would be for her to earn her living from her home if possible. Regarding the fitnah, I think women may be better at tackling this than men in general.

                No worries bro

                Ya of course, like theres a sunnah in how this right of the husband should be acted out. The Islamweb link I sent they talk about how our Prophet (SAW) used to consult with his wives and consider their opinions to make decisions. So the obedience of a wife towards the husband is not like slave and a slave master, but a member of the tribe towards the leader. This right of the husband in sharia is there as a necessity, something to go back to if the couple cannot come to an agreement, because a group needs a leader, if there is no leader and both parties disagree then you can't make any progress, like what happens in politics. But also when it comes to children we see that the mother has authority over the father, three times in fact, if you know the hadith about the Prophet where a man asked who's deserving of fine treatment and the Prophet responded your mother three times, before finally saying your father.

                Which parts of the fatwa wouldn't apply to the west? Maybe it'd be harder to find jobs where there isn't much free mixing, but regarding working out of necessity, it wouldn't be that common, if a woman doesn't have a husband, she should have her parents and family to fall back on, if she doesn't have parents or a family then that can be said its a necessity. Its more of a deep rooted cultural issue in the west, where we've pushed women into the workplace, men and women today are getting education and jobs for the wrong reasons, mostly for pleasure and money, and especially with women this delays them starting a family, which is detrimental to a functioning society. Allah (SWT) has told us that men are the maintainers and protectors of women, this is their responsibility to provide for them, yes education is important (education, not just a certification on a piece of paper), and women have the right to work, but if it interferes with your responsibilities and real important things in your life, then they have to take a backseat. By and large, women in the workplace has caused more problems than benefits, its a complicated issue.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by Mufti Cheesecake View Post

                  Like tbh, I don't think you should be worrying about what is and isn't obligatory in sharia for your wife to financially support right now, even if its not obligatory she's not going to stop supporting them, because she cares about them. Sometimes you just gotta show people the way, not everyone is strong enough to find the way themselves after getting cut off, theres many people who don't find their way back. Like you guys are helping them live, are you guys doing anything to try to get them to be independent? Those two brothers do they want to change, what have they said when you talked to them, can you try to find them some halal work? The three sisters that are living with you guys, can you try to find them some halal work? If they refuse then give them an ultimatum, the sisters are living in your house, give them a timeline or you'll kick them out. You and your wife need to make a plan to push them to be independent. You can still advise your wife on how she spends her money, make her understand that her sisters are wasting money and that she needs to fix their allowance.

                  Thats just my opinion, my family had to do somethings similar to get our cousins who refused to work to start being independent.
                  By all means I feel that me and my wife are for the most part on the same page with all of this, my whole issue with all of this is the stress that it is creating for her and I feel that is preventing her pregnancy. I have no obvious proof of that, but all of the money we've spent on doctors thus far to verify that there are no underlying issues on either side, and them also advising that "stress could be having an influence". I don't have any other logical reasoning why we are struggling so much, therefore all of these other issues do MATTER to me because at this point in time... in my eyes (again I may be in the wrong and misguided here) are affecting MY family, are preventing us from having children which I feel like this is of much more importance to have children and to have a strong marriage.

                  Edit: Regarding the sisters divorce, I do not know the "full story" I had heard a lot of back and forth between her speaking on behalf with her father and uncle on the matter however as at the time they were all trying to consult between the husband/wife. I do know that my wife has always hated him since we've been married as she has stated such many times, therefore I would render her opinion on the matter extremely biased.

                  Also, to clarify; I appreciate all of the information from everyone thus far, I'm learning a lot. I have no qualms with her doing whatever she wants with her money - I simply bring it up as it is inducing stress on my wife; it is putting her in a mindset that she has to be the man of the family; it is putting her in the position of literally handling THEIR problems (including non-financial). I'm simply trying to understand what the rulings are so that I can help provide suggestions/guidance so that we can get past this.
                  Last edited by Ozone; 1 week ago.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Mufti Cheesecake View Post

                    No worries bro

                    Ya of course, like theres a sunnah in how this right of the husband should be acted out. The Islamweb link I sent they talk about how our Prophet (SAW) used to consult with his wives and consider their opinions to make decisions. So the obedience of a wife towards the husband is not like slave and a slave master, but a member of the tribe towards the leader. This right of the husband in sharia is there as a necessity, something to go back to if the couple cannot come to an agreement, because a group needs a leader, if there is no leader and both parties disagree then you can't make any progress, like what happens in politics. But also when it comes to children we see that the mother has authority over the father, three times in fact, if you know the hadith about the Prophet where a man asked who's deserving of fine treatment and the Prophet responded your mother three times, before finally saying your father.

                    Which parts of the fatwa wouldn't apply to the west? Maybe it'd be harder to find jobs where there isn't much free mixing, but regarding working out of necessity, it wouldn't be that common, if a woman doesn't have a husband, she should have her parents and family to fall back on, if she doesn't have parents or a family then that can be said its a necessity. Its more of a deep rooted cultural issue in the west, where we've pushed women into the workplace, men and women today are getting education and jobs for the wrong reasons, mostly for pleasure and money, and especially with women this delays them starting a family, which is detrimental to a functioning society. Allah (SWT) has told us that men are the maintainers and protectors of women, this is their responsibility to provide for them, yes education is important (education, not just a certification on a piece of paper), and women have the right to work, but if it interferes with your responsibilities and real important things in your life, then they have to take a backseat. By and large, women in the workplace has caused more problems than benefits, its a complicated issue.
                    I'm not sure if the mother would actually have more authority over the children, I think she is supposed to have more respect and honour than the father but the father is still the one who makes the final decision regarding the children's issues like which school to move to etc.

                    Regarding the bolded, it's not that clearcut for example if a woman is divorced/widowed with kids and living in her own home she usually wouldn't feel comfortable asking her parents to provide for her neither would it really be customary for them to offer because when living separately you need to pay your own bills and manage your household and not live on handouts etc
                    ​​
                    There's nothing inherently wrong with women working, even in the prophet SAW's time, women used to work but yes managing the different responsibilities is important and obviously the family should be prioritized- the aim should be to earn money so that she and possibly her kids don't need to depend on others.

                    Yes typically the man i.e the husband is the maintainer and provider but when there is no husband she need to earn for herself. This is less of a cultural issue and more an issue of necessity which needs to be realised. Plus it's a true fact that there are fields that by having more women, it would be better for the ummah for example having more female Muslim doctors would be really good etc.
                    Last edited by hasan2013; 6 days ago.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Ozone View Post

                      By all means I feel that me and my wife are for the most part on the same page with all of this, my whole issue with all of this is the stress that it is creating for her and I feel that is preventing her pregnancy. I have no obvious proof of that, but all of the money we've spent on doctors thus far to verify that there are no underlying issues on either side, and them also advising that "stress could be having an influence". I don't have any other logical reasoning why we are struggling so much, therefore all of these other issues do MATTER to me because at this point in time... in my eyes (again I may be in the wrong and misguided here) are affecting MY family, are preventing us from having children which I feel like this is of much more importance to have children and to have a strong marriage.

                      Edit: Regarding the sisters divorce, I do not know the "full story" I had heard a lot of back and forth between her speaking on behalf with her father and uncle on the matter however as at the time they were all trying to consult between the husband/wife. I do know that my wife has always hated him since we've been married as she has stated such many times, therefore I would render her opinion on the matter extremely biased.

                      Also, to clarify; I appreciate all of the information from everyone thus far, I'm learning a lot. I have no qualms with her doing whatever she wants with her money - I simply bring it up as it is inducing stress on my wife; it is putting her in a mindset that she has to be the man of the family; it is putting her in the position of literally handling THEIR problems (including non-financial). I'm simply trying to understand what the rulings are so that I can help provide suggestions/guidance so that we can get past this.
                      For sure bro, I understand, you might be even worrying because you feel time is running out. But heres the thing, if stress is the factor here thats keeping you guys from even conceiving, what effect do you think its going to have on the pregnancy, the birth, the child? Like I think both you and I know that you guys have to solve these issues, at least enough so you guys have some breathing room, and I'm not saying you guys should stop trying either, but I think you understand that having a child now is going to put even more stress and financial burden on you guys, so at least don't stress about this right now.

                      Regarding your sister in laws divorce, its something you should've got the full story for, even just because they're your family now, when you marry your spouse you become part of their family, so it shouldn't be off limits for you to listen and give advice.

                      Heres another question or theory I wanna put out there, maybe its your wife that has a problem too, and enabling these things? Because it seems like she has a habit of needing everything to go according to her plan, to the point where she'll do everything herself, according to what you've told us. She's been taking on all these responsibilities herself, financially supporting her brothers and sisters who have the ability to work themselves, dealing with their issues for them, she pushed her sister to get the divorce even though she probably knew the impact it would have and stress that it would put on her and you (also how you said she didn't like her husband already), she pushed you for all those vacations even though you guys are struggling financially, you even said how she was the one who was pushing to have a baby even though you were reluctant at the time. Whats your opinion on this, have you ever confronted her about it?

                      You guys have a very specific complicated issue, so its best to go to an Islamic institution/masjid and ask to speak to someone who deals with family issues who can give advice. The sharia rulings are there so that people don't take advantage of people or neglect obligations, teachings from our Prophet (SAW) also are great insights, but it may not be the whole solution you need. What you guys need maybe is to just have an intervention first, talk with the whole family and get them to see your point of view, ask them what they can do for the family since you're helping them. A lot of times the key to finding a solution for family issues is just communication.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by hasan2013 View Post

                        I'm not sure if the mother would actually have more authority over the children, I think she is supposed to have more respect and honour than the father but the father is still the one who makes the final decision regarding the children's issues like which school to move to etc.

                        Regarding the bolded, it's not that clearcut for example if a woman is divorced/widowed with kids and living in her own home she usually wouldn't feel comfortable asking her parents to provide for her neither would it really be customary for them to offer because when living separately you need to pay your own bills and manage your household and not live on handouts etc
                        ​​
                        There's nothing inherently wrong with women working, even in the prophet SAW's time, women used to work but yes managing the different responsibilities is important and obviously the family should be prioritized- the aim should be to earn money so that she and possibly her kids don't need to depend on others.

                        Yes typically the man i.e the husband is the maintainer and provider but when there is no husband she need to earn for herself. This is less of a cultural issue and more an issue of necessity which needs to be realised. Plus it's a true fact that there are fields that by having more women, it would be better for the ummah for example having more female Muslim doctors would be really good etc.
                        I couldn't find a proper site that talks about the issue, but on this stackexchange thread, talking about who to obey if father and mother are at conflict with each other, one of the replies references the Kuwaiti Fiqh Encyclopedia https://islam.stackexchange.com/ques...ict-each-other
                        But if there is a conflict in obeying the parents in other than sin, such that both can not be obeyed simultaneously, then the majority say: obedience to the mother takes precedence; because the mother has preference over the father in good treatment
                        Thats what I've also heard from Islamic speakers.

                        Ya I agree bro, but these should be exceptions thats the thing. Islam promotes community, to keep family ties, to have relationship with your neighbor and be good to them, so that if something happens you can fall back on them, so you have people that will support you. Today in western societies, individualism and independence is instead promoted, people are lonely living by themselves, not getting married, they get dogs and pets to keep them company, when parents get old they're put in retirement homes to live the rest of their lives instead of loving homes. I don't believe comfort either should be a priority if you're struggling in life, it should never keep yourself from going back to your parents for help.

                        And again, Im not against women working, but its this push in western culture that forces women into the workplace, the demonization of motherhood, making mothers feel less than if they don't have a career outside of being a mother and wife, promoting the ideals of holding back starting a family in order to prioritize careers. If a woman in Islam wants to forego having a family, and instead dedicate her life to serving the ummah for the sake of Allah in someway like going into medicine, she can make that decision, but thats not whats happening in society is what I'm saying. Women are being lied to and told that they can do both, a career and family, they're being told to ignore their biology, they're being told that a career will mean something to them, and they don't realize it until its too late.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Mufti Cheesecake View Post

                          I couldn't find a proper site that talks about the issue, but on this stackexchange thread, talking about who to obey if father and mother are at conflict with each other, one of the replies references the Kuwaiti Fiqh Encyclopedia https://islam.stackexchange.com/ques...ict-each-other

                          Thats what I've also heard from Islamic speakers.

                          Ya I agree bro, but these should be exceptions thats the thing. Islam promotes community, to keep family ties, to have relationship with your neighbor and be good to them, so that if something happens you can fall back on them, so you have people that will support you. Today in western societies, individualism and independence is instead promoted, people are lonely living by themselves, not getting married, they get dogs and pets to keep them company, when parents get old they're put in retirement homes to live the rest of their lives instead of loving homes. I don't believe comfort either should be a priority if you're struggling in life, it should never keep yourself from going back to your parents for help.

                          And again, Im not against women working, but its this push in western culture that forces women into the workplace, the demonization of motherhood, making mothers feel less than if they don't have a career outside of being a mother and wife, promoting the ideals of holding back starting a family in order to prioritize careers. If a woman in Islam wants to forego having a family, and instead dedicate her life to serving the ummah for the sake of Allah in someway like going into medicine, she can make that decision, but thats not whats happening in society is what I'm saying. Women are being lied to and told that they can do both, a career and family, they're being told to ignore their biology, they're being told that a career will mean something to them, and they don't realize it until its too late.
                          Regarding the first point, point 4 from the fatwa below clarifies the authority that a father has over his children, it doesn't seem like the mother has decision making authority over the children:

                          https://islamqa.info/en/answers/5053...y-independence

                          For the second point, Islam does not promote seeking handouts, islam encourages us to be the one who gives help not the one who takes it regardless of your gender and neither is living with your family especially promoted, many scholars say that once you are married you need your own space, living with your parents is heavily discouraged because when we live with our parents we need to follow their rules which is why many sisters would be unable to live with their parents after their divorce because their views on parenting and bringing up the children may be different to that of their parents and living together would lead to a clash plus even if this issue is not there the parents may be living very far away or even in a different country to the daughter and her kids may be settled in a good school with good facilities uprooting the whole family would obviously be a huge setback, perhaps her siblings are already living with the parents and so the house is really cramped and so she can't move there even if she wanted.
                          I do agree that some people are lonely living alone but at the same time many others are really happy living like this, so we shouldn't make generalisations, if we want to keep ties with our parents we don't need to necessarily live with them, we can look after them from a distance and take care of them as much as we can whilst having our own independence too, I don't see why it has to be one way or the other, the houses in the west are not particularly spacious to allow for multiple generations to live comfortably, we need to be realistic in our approach.

                          I've mentioned specific situations to make you realise that it is incorrect to label not moving back with parents as seeking 'comfort' there are many reasons why a woman can't move back.

                          Although it is incorrect to demonise motherhood, we shouldn't demonise sisters who want to work either, we need to be balanced in our approach, I do agree that women shouldn't really be encouraged to seek a career, they are more suited to looking after the family however in cases where the husband is not there then the wife needs to take on this responsibility as a necessity.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by hasan2013 View Post

                            Regarding the first point, point 4 from the fatwa below clarifies the authority that a father has over his children, it doesn't seem like the mother has decision making authority over the children:

                            https://islamqa.info/en/answers/5053...y-independence

                            For the second point, Islam does not promote seeking handouts, islam encourages us to be the one who gives help not the one who takes it regardless of your gender and neither is living with your family especially promoted, many scholars say that once you are married you need your own space, living with your parents is heavily discouraged because when we live with our parents we need to follow their rules which is why many sisters would be unable to live with their parents after their divorce because their views on parenting and bringing up the children may be different to that of their parents and living together would lead to a clash plus even if this issue is not there the parents may be living very far away or even in a different country to the daughter and her kids may be settled in a good school with good facilities uprooting the whole family would obviously be a huge setback, perhaps her siblings are already living with the parents and so the house is really cramped and so she can't move there even if she wanted.
                            I do agree that some people are lonely living alone but at the same time many others are really happy living like this, so we shouldn't make generalisations, if we want to keep ties with our parents we don't need to necessarily live with them, we can look after them from a distance and take care of them as much as we can whilst having our own independence too, I don't see why it has to be one way or the other, the houses in the west are not particularly spacious to allow for multiple generations to live comfortably, we need to be realistic in our approach.

                            I've mentioned specific situations to make you realise that it is incorrect to label not moving back with parents as seeking 'comfort' there are many reasons why a woman can't move back.

                            Although it is incorrect to demonise motherhood, we shouldn't demonise sisters who want to work either, we need to be balanced in our approach, I do agree that women shouldn't really be encouraged to seek a career, they are more suited to looking after the family however in cases where the husband is not there then the wife needs to take on this responsibility as a necessity.
                            Right so when it comes to the fathers responsibilities for the children, he gets the final decision, so like where they go to school, where they'll stay, what accommodations they'll get etc., but when it comes to the childrens obedience to the parents, the mother has more authority over the father. In a case where they're in conflict with each other and they are commanding you opposite things, ideally you should find a way to obey both without hurting either, like obeying both in secret of the other, but if you can't then you should listen to the mother. A milder example is if your father is calling your to come to him upstairs and your mother is calling you downstairs, you should go to your mom, and of course letting your dad know you'll be a minute.

                            I don't think theres anything in Islam that discourages asking for help from your parents, family, and friends, you might be thinking about begging which is different and is despised, but this is one of the reasons why Islam encourages family and community, so that you have each other for support. Yes you should get your own place when married, but in your scenario the sister is divorced. Like look we can sit here and come up with a number of different exceptional scenarios, everyones circumstances aren't going to be the same, Islam sets an ideal to give people what is the most beneficial to them. The reality is that most Muslim women today in the west who are entering the workforce are not divorced single mothers who are trying to feed their kids, they're young Muslim women who are getting degrees and education in order to pursue a career. The point is not about whether they're happy or not, theres many people who live haram lifestyles who are really happy in what they do, but is it whats most beneficial for them? Are they going to live a fulfilling life? Is it whats best for society? Probably not. Theres a lot of women who thrive pursuing these careers, many who are even better at their jobs than their male counterparts, but in the majority of cases its not whats best for them and society. Like I think I mentioned before, low marriage rates, low birth rates, even studies after studies show the psychological toll it takes on women where women in careers have higher levels of mental illness, depression, stress, etc., compared to their male counterparts.

                            Its not that women are working, its the ideological feminist values that are being forced onto women to make them pursue careers, its having a negative impact on our societies, and this is why we as Muslims see rulings regarding women in the workforce, as not applicable in the west, so its very much a cultural issue.

                            Comment

                            Collapse

                            Edit this module to specify a template to display.

                            Working...
                            X