Ads by Muslim Ad Network

Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Fiance and I disagree on marriage commitment and reasons for divorce

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • #16
    Originally posted by Abu Abdur_Rahman View Post
    I want to comment by saying that being loyal to your future wife and not wanting to divorce except for huge matters is, in sha Allah, a praiseworthy quality.

    Unfortunately, not everyone has the same type of loyalty and level of sacrifice. In order for the family to be successful, and for the kids to have a good Islamic and/or worldly education, be kept away from haram, and grow up to be close to their parents and other siblings, the mother especially has to sacrifice much to attain this. She has to give herself to her husband, family, and home; just like the husband must take his role seriously and provide for them and protect them, etc.

    But not everyone has this level of loyalty. How many men divorce their wives because they fall in love with someone else, or because he finds someone else attractive? How many women seek divorce because she doesn't want to be "controlled" in the marriage and she thinks she's better off single, or she has thoughts of marrying someone else? Or both men and women seek a divorce for a problem that can be solved?

    As for your specific case, I think it's hard to judge her based on your post. It could be that she is saying those things because that is what her parents and environment taught her to do if conflict arises with husband. It is definitely a protective measure. This is how she is looking to protect herself from you.

    You also have to keep in mind that no one will have all the things you want. At least you know this about her before marriage. Many people marry then discover their red flags after marriage. Since you like each other and have all those things in common, this may be overlooked, depending on whether or not she is a controlling, manipulative type or not. If she is, then you have to reconsider your commitment to marry her.

    It’s naivety on both sides for them to come out with what they have. Perhaps they have become overly familiar with themselves that they are no longer able to think objectively. This applies to him more so than her.

    How can you find out if someone is controlling and/or manipulative or not other that what you see or hear during your limited discussions. If you intend to overlook, what’s the point in discussing these matters.

    You have alluded to this and what she is saying is a “protective” measure aimed at influencing/manipulating him into behaving in a certain (unreasonable) way going forward.

    She just needs to talk to divorced sisters to know what she is suggesting makes very little sense. Being female and divorced is not always a bed of roses and if she were to stay true to her words (very unlikely), how many divorces will she be willing to go through and how many men will want to marry her after she has been divorced once or twice.

    Comment


    • #17
      Originally posted by Abu Abdur_Rahman View Post
      I want to comment by saying that being loyal to your future wife and not wanting to divorce except for huge matters is, in sha Allah, a praiseworthy quality.

      Unfortunately, not everyone has the same type of loyalty and level of sacrifice. In order for the family to be successful, and for the kids to have a good Islamic and/or worldly education, be kept away from haram, and grow up to be close to their parents and other siblings, the mother especially has to sacrifice much to attain this. She has to give herself to her husband, family, and home; just like the husband must take his role seriously and provide for them and protect them, etc.

      But not everyone has this level of loyalty. How many men divorce their wives because they fall in love with someone else, or because he finds someone else attractive? How many women seek divorce because she doesn't want to be "controlled" in the marriage and she thinks she's better off single, or she has thoughts of marrying someone else? Or both men and women seek a divorce for a problem that can be solved?

      As for your specific case, I think it's hard to judge her based on your post. It could be that she is saying those things because that is what her parents and environment taught her to do if conflict arises with husband. It is definitely a protective measure. This is how she is looking to protect herself from you.

      You also have to keep in mind that no one will have all the things you want. At least you know this about her before marriage. Many people marry then discover their red flags after marriage. Since you like each other and have all those things in common, this may be overlooked, depending on whether or not she is a controlling, manipulative type or not. If she is, then you have to reconsider your commitment to marry her.
      Brother, you need to read the book "Rational Male" as soon as possible. This mindset is dangerous, it can lead to zeroing out and losing everything when exposed to reality. Stop what you doing right now and go read that book. (There are pirated copies available on web, obviously I am not fan of it, but do it if you dont have access to physical copy)

      Do not argue or discuss, go and read that book right now.

      Comment


      • #18
        Originally posted by muslim_one View Post

        Brother, you need to read the book "Rational Male" as soon as possible. This mindset is dangerous, it can lead to zeroing out and losing everything when exposed to reality. Stop what you doing right now and go read that book. (There are pirated copies available on web, obviously I am not fan of it, but do it if you dont have access to physical copy)

        Do not argue or discuss, go and read that book right now.
        Interesting.

        Which mindset?

        Comment


        • #19
          Originally posted by muslim_one View Post

          Brother, you need to read the book "Rational Male" as soon as possible. This mindset is dangerous, it can lead to zeroing out and losing everything when exposed to reality. Stop what you doing right now and go read that book. (There are pirated copies available on web, obviously I am not fan of it, but do it if you dont have access to physical copy)

          Do not argue or discuss, go and read that book right now.
          Please don’t promote any of that nonsense on here.

          Comment


          • #20
            Originally posted by muslim_one View Post

            Brother, you need to read the book "Rational Male" as soon as possible. This mindset is dangerous, it can lead to zeroing out and losing everything when exposed to reality. Stop what you doing right now and go read that book. (There are pirated copies available on web, obviously I am not fan of it, but do it if you dont have access to physical copy)

            Do not argue or discuss, go and read that book right now.
            This book is red pill garbage (I've read it).

            I don't advise any Muslim to read it

            Comment


            • #21
              Originally posted by Stoic Believer View Post

              This book is red pill garbage (I've read it).

              I don't advise any Muslim to read it
              Jazak-Allah

              Comment


              • #22
                -​​​​​always want what we can't have.
                -we don't value something which comes to us easily.
                -Rejection breeds obsession.(rejection by your ex maybe).
                What you are facing is the consequence of the above three statements. Do ishtikhara, talk to family/ friends. Don't compromise on your future partners Deen and yours as well. Your ex is stranger to you now and he is as good as dead. Think of it that way.
                If you are still "reliving the moments" in youwith your ex then you need time. Whatever new prospect you will meet you will compare him with your ex and that is unfair.

                Comment


                • #23
                  Originally posted by Abu 'Abdullaah View Post

                  Please don’t promote any of that nonsense on here.
                  I do not have any incentive to promote it, just want to share a resource I find helpful for myself. I respect your opinion and will be careful from now on. But I am really glad to see this spark a discussion.

                  Only reason I directed to resource is that I did not want to analysis of the given reply, which I'm gonna do now. I kindly ask you to inspect the reply and provide me with problemistic part of the my thinking and reasoning.

                  Originally posted by Stoic Believer View Post

                  This book is red pill garbage (I've read it).

                  I don't advise any Muslim to read it
                  I have read it too. It helped me out. I strongly disagree with any of the so called "evolutionary biology" claims Rollo built his work on. I credit and accept the perfection of the human being as Allah's creation, instead of the nonsense so called evolution. Hovewer, I mostly agree with Rollo on the reality of the intergender dynamics and on the points he is making. I find these points reflecting the real world.

                  My problem is that I did not encounter any realistic Islamic resource on the topic(let me know if you have one). Can we discuss it? I belive so. Why dont I just go and discuss the matters in other communities, and insist the discussion on this forum? I am a muslim, I want a muslim point of view.

                  New false "dating" schema in our feminist world lead to a very different marriage marketplace. It is different then previous societies and we have a lot of confused young bachelors(especially males). This so called young boys crisis or morality crisis leads to rise of public figures(I will not give any names to not to target them). I appreciate them for their help on the community. But when it is about marriage, some of these figures giving naive messages. There is a some incentive to walking around the bush and not recognizing the truth. So there are some young bachelors out there without any awareness of the reality of the marriage market, and there is no resource that can guide them that I'm aware of.

                  Following discussion will include heavy citation of blogger Dalrock. I neither have capability to explain all the matters nor have the time to do it, so will kindly ask you to read the shared resources.

                  What is new dating schema? See: Long term relationships are not the same as marriage.
                  See: Who is avoiding commitment?
                  See: Who is delaying marriage?
                  See: Noble path to the marriage.
                  See: Debasing marriage

                  Let's start with the commentary.

                  Originally posted by Abu Abdur_Rahman View Post
                  I want to comment by saying that being loyal to your future wife … Unfortunately, not everyone has the same type of loyalty and level of sacrifice.
                  This is chivalry. See: Call me unchivalrious.

                  Originally posted by Abu Abdur_Rahman View Post
                  How many men divorce their wives because they fall in love with someone else, or because he finds someone else attractive?
                  We are seeing the opposite trend.

                  Read about the 1) divorce statistics 2) incentives of selling divorce 3) the threat point 4) the child support catastrophe.

                  Read about the backup plan.

                  Originally posted by Abu Abdur_Rahman View Post
                  How many women seek divorce because she doesn't want to be "controlled" in the marriage and she thinks she's better off single, or she has thoughts of marrying someone else? Or both men and women seek a divorce for a problem that can be solved?
                  When it comes to women paradigm quickly shifts into being controlled and abused. This is the feminist Duluth model of domestic violence with the radical implication of man is always the transgressor. Execution without trial.

                  Originally posted by Abu Abdur_Rahman View Post
                  As for your specific case, I think it's hard to judge her based on your post.
                  These behavior are wrong: 1) Humiliation of spouse in front of the family 2) Giving mixed signals just before marriage, with implication of low desire to getting married.

                  Originally posted by Abu Abdur_Rahman View Post
                  It could be that she is saying those things because that is what her parents and environment taught her to do if conflict arises with husband.
                  No. Not necessarily. Firstly, you are denying the agency(decision ability) of the women by telling that she is not responsible about this. I believe females have agency, rewarded for the good deeds, and punished for the bad deeds. Am I wrong?

                  Secondly, it is happening not because parents and environment giving restrictions, it is actually the opposite. Here are the realities of our feminist world.
                  See: Raising feral children.
                  See: Reversing gender norms.

                  Originally posted by Abu Abdur_Rahman View Post
                  It is definitely a protective measure. This is how she is looking to protect herself from you.
                  This is absolutely wrong approach. How did you decide she is protecting herself? How did you derive the conclusion that he is doing something wrong?

                  The problem here is holding the female agency as the source of morality. Lets look at the more clear example.

                  "If you were a better man, a better muslim, women would’ve liked you. / she would have wanted to marry you. / your wife would have been happy with you."

                  Pay attention to the the implication of absolute correctness of women’s decisions/agency in above sentence. This leads to a wrong path of accepting women’s will is the source of morality, instead of the deen(Islam). Am I wrong?

                  Originally posted by Abu Abdur_Rahman View Post
                  You also have to keep in mind that no one will have all the things you want. At least you know this about her before marriage. Many people marry then discover their red flags after marriage.
                  More clear form: "No one will have all the things you want. You are lucky to have her. You are lucky to be learning this before marriage. You are lucky to even know this." See previous answer.

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    There’s a clear cut warning about women who seek khula for no valid reason. The Hadith is a CLEAR warning so anyone who doesn’t care about this and has the attitude that oh if my husband does something khalaas I’ll ask for divorce then subhanallah, Allahul Mustaa’aan. Im not saying that women shouldn’t request for khula btw but if a woman is quick to ask it, then she needs to learn about the fiqh of marriage and divorce and it’s a massive red flag in my opinion to have a blase attitude in regard to marriage and divorce
                    https://islamicgemsandpearls.wordpress.com

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      Originally posted by muslim_one View Post

                      I do not have any incentive to promote it, just want to share a resource I find helpful for myself. I respect your opinion and will be careful from now on. But I am really glad to see this spark a discussion.

                      Only reason I directed to resource is that I did not want to analysis of the given reply, which I'm gonna do now. I kindly ask you to inspect the reply and provide me with problemistic part of the my thinking and reasoning.



                      I have read it too. It helped me out. I strongly disagree with any of the so called "evolutionary biology" claims Rollo built his work on. I credit and accept the perfection of the human being as Allah's creation, instead of the nonsense so called evolution. Hovewer, I mostly agree with Rollo on the reality of the intergender dynamics and on the points he is making. I find these points reflecting the real world.

                      My problem is that I did not encounter any realistic Islamic resource on the topic(let me know if you have one). Can we discuss it? I belive so. Why dont I just go and discuss the matters in other communities, and insist the discussion on this forum? I am a muslim, I want a muslim point of view.

                      New false "dating" schema in our feminist world lead to a very different marriage marketplace. It is different then previous societies and we have a lot of confused young bachelors(especially males). This so called young boys crisis or morality crisis leads to rise of public figures(I will not give any names to not to target them). I appreciate them for their help on the community. But when it is about marriage, some of these figures giving naive messages. There is a some incentive to walking around the bush and not recognizing the truth. So there are some young bachelors out there without any awareness of the reality of the marriage market, and there is no resource that can guide them that I'm aware of.

                      Following discussion will include heavy citation of blogger Dalrock. I neither have capability to explain all the matters nor have the time to do it, so will kindly ask you to read the shared resources.

                      What is new dating schema? See: Long term relationships are not the same as marriage.
                      See: Who is avoiding commitment?
                      See: Who is delaying marriage?
                      See: Noble path to the marriage.
                      See: Debasing marriage

                      Let's start with the commentary.



                      This is chivalry. See: Call me unchivalrious.



                      We are seeing the opposite trend.

                      Read about the 1) divorce statistics 2) incentives of selling divorce 3) the threat point 4) the child support catastrophe.

                      Read about the backup plan.



                      When it comes to women paradigm quickly shifts into being controlled and abused. This is the feminist Duluth model of domestic violence with the radical implication of man is always the transgressor. Execution without trial.



                      These behavior are wrong: 1) Humiliation of spouse in front of the family 2) Giving mixed signals just before marriage, with implication of low desire to getting married.



                      No. Not necessarily. Firstly, you are denying the agency(decision ability) of the women by telling that she is not responsible about this. I believe females have agency, rewarded for the good deeds, and punished for the bad deeds. Am I wrong?

                      Secondly, it is happening not because parents and environment giving restrictions, it is actually the opposite. Here are the realities of our feminist world.
                      See: Raising feral children.
                      See: Reversing gender norms.



                      This is absolutely wrong approach. How did you decide she is protecting herself? How did you derive the conclusion that he is doing something wrong?

                      The problem here is holding the female agency as the source of morality. Lets look at the more clear example.

                      "If you were a better man, a better muslim, women would’ve liked you. / she would have wanted to marry you. / your wife would have been happy with you."

                      Pay attention to the the implication of absolute correctness of women’s decisions/agency in above sentence. This leads to a wrong path of accepting women’s will is the source of morality, instead of the deen(Islam). Am I wrong?


                      More clear form: "No one will have all the things you want. You are lucky to have her. You are lucky to be learning this before marriage. You are lucky to even know this." See previous answer.
                      Meh

                      Eventually you'll grow out of this redpill crap

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        Originally posted by muslim_one View Post

                        I do not have any incentive to promote it, just want to share a resource I find helpful for myself...
                        Yeah, you can stop linking to that stupid blog too.

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          Originally posted by zi-zizou View Post


                          It’s naivety on both sides for them to come out with what they have. Perhaps they have become overly familiar with themselves that they are no longer able to think objectively. This applies to him more so than her.

                          How can you find out if someone is controlling and/or manipulative or not other that what you see or hear during your limited discussions. If you intend to overlook, what’s the point in discussing these matters.

                          You have alluded to this and what she is saying is a “protective” measure aimed at influencing/manipulating him into behaving in a certain (unreasonable) way going forward.

                          She just needs to talk to divorced sisters to know what she is suggesting makes very little sense. Being female and divorced is not always a bed of roses and if she were to stay true to her words (very unlikely), how many divorces will she be willing to go through and how many men will want to marry her after she has been divorced once or twice.
                          Well...

                          Son.

                          There comes a time in life, yeh? When you must put everything at stake and go ahead with the plan at hand.

                          That time, son, has come.

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            Originally posted by Stoic Believer View Post

                            Meh

                            Eventually you'll grow out of this redpill crap
                            Originally posted by Abu 'Abdullaah View Post

                            Yeah, you can stop linking to that stupid blog too.
                            I disagree but I will not argue more. Muslims are brothers, I'm cool with your view.

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              Originally posted by muslim_one View Post



                              I disagree but I will not argue more. Muslims are brothers, I'm cool with your view.
                              If you keep linking that stuff, it's grounds for a ban in my opinion.

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                Originally posted by Abu Abdur_Rahman View Post

                                Well...

                                Son.

                                There comes a time in life, yeh? When you must put everything at stake and go ahead with the plan at hand.

                                That time, son, has come.
                                yeh.

                                Comment

                                Working...
                                X