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Fiance and I disagree on marriage commitment and reasons for divorce

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  • Fiance and I disagree on marriage commitment and reasons for divorce

    Please give us some advice....

    The person I am speaking to and I are going through a huge fight currently (not sure if fiance is the right term, just used it for the title for lack of a better word).

    I don’t even remember how it came up, but we ended up speaking about the commitment marriage was, and about what reasons each other thought were reasons for divorce.

    Alhamdullilah we are both practicing and agree on most religious areas, how to raise kids, personality types etc. I haven't met anyone that thinks so similarly to me - But this one disagreement is so important has made me really scared.

    My attitude toward marriage is sticking to whoever I marry no matter what* happens [*unless the very worst actions] I will stick with them and work through it. So, my definition of these actions is e.g. someone leaving Islam, or being addicted to drugs and not being willing to rehab. Stuff on this level. Divorces just don’t happen in my family. I want my fiancé should be equally as committed.

    However, my fiancé sees it differently. She says she would divorce for reasons such as if her husband became stingy, if he became stubborn, if he wouldn’t change his mind on things, if he insulted her in front of her family.

    Now, my fiancé’s family has already insulted me in front of all my family – it was the worst experience in my life – and my fiancé wants me to forgive them for it, which I have. But she’s at the same time saying if I insult her in front of her family she would just ask for divorce. This seems completely unfair to me.

    I want to make it clear I would never insult her in front of her family, its just that she asks me to forgive her family for doing it to me, but if I did it to her, she would ask for divorce.

    At the same time, I don’t see myself as stubborn or as stingy. It's not about those specific traits, its just about the differences in what we see is suitable for divorce are magnitudes of difference.

    It’s just so scary that I am prepared to go through almost anything with her and work through it – other than if she did the gravest things such as leaving Islam and drug use without working to fix it …. whereas she has much (in my eyes) lesser reasons for turning to divorce such as stubbornness and stinginess.

    Now I am just living in fear not knowing if she will stick around when things get hard and difficult. Her views are completely the opposite to what I see marriage as - which is two people sticking together no matter what unless something really horrific occurs such as the reasons I gave above.

    Please give some advice… am I being crazy here?

  • #2
    You have good reason to worry.

    Pray Istikhara but this is definitely a red flag.

    Comment


    • #3
      Was going to say you both have different limits and there is nothing wrong with that, but her double standards are very hypocritical and that would worry me a lot. When someone tells you something about themselves it's very important that you listen - this girl is telling you that you will have to forgive behaviour that she wouldn't tolerate herself. Be wary of her or be prepared to always be toeing her line.I
      ​​
      ETA: she has at least made this clear before proceeding, you can't say you weren't warned.

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by UmmAbdullah86 View Post
        Was going to say you both have different limits and there is nothing wrong with that, but her double standards are very hypocritical and that would worry me a lot. When someone tells you something about themselves it's very important that you listen - this girl is telling you that you will have to forgive behaviour that she wouldn't tolerate herself. Be wary of her or be prepared to always be toeing her line.I
        ​​
        ETA: she has at least made this clear before proceeding, you can't say you weren't warned.
        Agree and there is a medical condition for someone like that it's call Narcissism Disorder.

        Comment


        • #5
          No matter how well you try to cross the t's and dot the i's before marriage, it's not going to turn out that way. Married life will be filled with challenges and ups and downs.

          There shall always be difference in opinions between spouses. Obviously, you're not going to be seeing eye to eye with one another all the time. Perhaps what you see as "extravagant expenses" would seem like "stinginess" to her and you sticking to your principles in a certain matter appear like being "stubborn" to her. What then ? Will she just scream and demand she wants a "divorce" and leave ?

          Take an instance, women tend to think emotionally, you both have a difference of opinion, she becomes upset and leaves to her parents' house ( women shouldn't just pack their bags and leave, imo, but a lot of them do, so let's suppose she does). You call her asking to come back, but she refuses, so, you go to her parents' house to reason with her. You try to show where she was wrong....but since she doesn't believe she was wrong in the first place, she doesn't see your logic and takes you pointing out her flaws as insulting her in front of her family. She gets enraged and decides never to come back.

          Is this how you want your life to be ?

          Marriage should mean living with sukoon with your spouse. You shouldn't live in fear, tip-toeing around on egg-shells all the time. Your "fiance" has already shown you several red flags about her personality. She seems like a controlling woman who'd like to wear the pants in the relationship. Allah has made the husband the ameer and the wife will always remain tabe to her husband. She should not even be threatening you with divorce at this point.

          Alhamdulillah, there's much hikmah that Allah has not given the right of divorce to the wife. Or else, one divorce would be given at breakfast, the next one at lunch and the final one at dinner.





          Comment


          • #6
            I agree with the above, this does seem like controlling behavior that is meant to make sure you comply to all of her demands.

            but I think it should also be said that sometimes people say all of these ridiculous things because they don't know what they are getting themselves into. Probably after you get married and develop more of a bond she won't think the same way anymore. I see unmarried girls say unreasonable things all the time because they don't know what it's like to share their lives with another person on such a personal level. she is probably thinking that she would give it all up as soon as you make any little mistake because she doesn't have much of an emotional attachment to you yet. If you do go through with this, inshallah that attitude of hers changes after you get married.

            Comment


            • #7
              It's already really hard to find someone who has so much in common in terms of practising and sharing so many of the same values as you that once you find that person, you don't want to give up on getting married over one disagreement. Having said that, the other comments are right and this is a significant red flag. If I were in your shoes, I wouldn't end the engagement, but I'd allow some time just to see how she handles things and also I'd be less conciliatory if I were you. My point is, that next time you have a disagreement, don't just give in to her to keep the peace if you have good reason to believe you're right. Next time her family says something insulting to you or your family, don't just forgive and overlook- avoid speaking to them for a while and see how she reacts. When that happens, tell her you need some alone time to think and don't talk to her or her family for at least 10 days, then see if she contacts you or makes any attempt to reconcile.

              It's one thing discussing theoretical or hypothetical disagreements about the future, but something else to actually deal with conflict and disagreement in the here and now. Observe whether she's willing to ditch the whole relationship over that disagreement or whether she realises that it isn't worth losing the whole relationship over so it might prompt her to think. At the end of those ten days, say that she (or whichever member of her family was doing the insulting) should apologise to your family if she's sincere about wanting to take things further. Being engaged is the time when you find out so much about each other through interactions; more than just the "good side" people show during the early stages of meeting each other and this would be a good litmus test for seeing if she shows any willingness to compromise or whether she'd destroy everything for her ego. In order to successfully test the relationship though, YOU have to stand firm and be uncompromising for a while and obviously be reasonable- don't tell her to apologise if she didn't do anything insulting or wrong.
              The Lyme Disease pandemic: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z5u73ME4sVU

              Comment


              • #8
                Sounds like she wants to wear the pants in the relationship and doesn't have much faith in you to treat her fairly or accept your position as head of the household. At least she's honest about it so that's a positive!

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by Albasdasd1234 View Post
                  Please give us some advice....

                  The person I am speaking to and I are going through a huge fight currently (not sure if fiance is the right term, just used it for the title for lack of a better word).

                  I don’t even remember how it came up, but we ended up speaking about the commitment marriage was, and about what reasons each other thought were reasons for divorce.

                  Alhamdullilah we are both practicing and agree on most religious areas, how to raise kids, personality types etc. I haven't met anyone that thinks so similarly to me - But this one disagreement is so important has made me really scared.

                  My attitude toward marriage is sticking to whoever I marry no matter what* happens [*unless the very worst actions] I will stick with them and work through it. So, my definition of these actions is e.g. someone leaving Islam, or being addicted to drugs and not being willing to rehab. Stuff on this level. Divorces just don’t happen in my family. I want my fiancé should be equally as committed.

                  However, my fiancé sees it differently. She says she would divorce for reasons such as if her husband became stingy, if he became stubborn, if he wouldn’t change his mind on things, if he insulted her in front of her family.

                  Now, my fiancé’s family has already insulted me in front of all my family – it was the worst experience in my life – and my fiancé wants me to forgive them for it, which I have. But she’s at the same time saying if I insult her in front of her family she would just ask for divorce. This seems completely unfair to me.

                  I want to make it clear I would never insult her in front of her family, its just that she asks me to forgive her family for doing it to me, but if I did it to her, she would ask for divorce.

                  At the same time, I don’t see myself as stubborn or as stingy. It's not about those specific traits, its just about the differences in what we see is suitable for divorce are magnitudes of difference.

                  It’s just so scary that I am prepared to go through almost anything with her and work through it – other than if she did the gravest things such as leaving Islam and drug use without working to fix it …. whereas she has much (in my eyes) lesser reasons for turning to divorce such as stubbornness and stinginess.

                  Now I am just living in fear not knowing if she will stick around when things get hard and difficult. Her views are completely the opposite to what I see marriage as - which is two people sticking together no matter what unless something really horrific occurs such as the reasons I gave above.

                  Please give some advice… am I being crazy here?
                  You should leave her some time to think and then put the questions to her again. If her position does not change you should not progress with her on the grounds of her immaturity and stupidity. If she disagrees with your decision remind her stubbornness is grounds for divorce based on her reasoning.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    JazaakAllahKhayr for all the responses.

                    We both really want to work through this. I will raise the above with her.

                    Thank you all for your help.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Albasdasd1234 View Post
                      Please give us some advice....

                      The person I am speaking to and I are going through a huge fight currently (not sure if fiance is the right term, just used it for the title for lack of a better word).

                      I don’t even remember how it came up, but we ended up speaking about the commitment marriage was, and about what reasons each other thought were reasons for divorce.

                      Alhamdullilah we are both practicing and agree on most religious areas, how to raise kids, personality types etc. I haven't met anyone that thinks so similarly to me - But this one disagreement is so important has made me really scared.

                      My attitude toward marriage is sticking to whoever I marry no matter what* happens [*unless the very worst actions] I will stick with them and work through it. So, my definition of these actions is e.g. someone leaving Islam, or being addicted to drugs and not being willing to rehab. Stuff on this level. Divorces just don’t happen in my family. I want my fiancé should be equally as committed.

                      However, my fiancé sees it differently. She says she would divorce for reasons such as if her husband became stingy, if he became stubborn, if he wouldn’t change his mind on things, if he insulted her in front of her family.

                      Now, my fiancé’s family has already insulted me in front of all my family – it was the worst experience in my life – and my fiancé wants me to forgive them for it, which I have. But she’s at the same time saying if I insult her in front of her family she would just ask for divorce. This seems completely unfair to me.

                      I want to make it clear I would never insult her in front of her family, its just that she asks me to forgive her family for doing it to me, but if I did it to her, she would ask for divorce.

                      At the same time, I don’t see myself as stubborn or as stingy. It's not about those specific traits, its just about the differences in what we see is suitable for divorce are magnitudes of difference.

                      It’s just so scary that I am prepared to go through almost anything with her and work through it – other than if she did the gravest things such as leaving Islam and drug use without working to fix it …. whereas she has much (in my eyes) lesser reasons for turning to divorce such as stubbornness and stinginess.

                      Now I am just living in fear not knowing if she will stick around when things get hard and difficult. Her views are completely the opposite to what I see marriage as - which is two people sticking together no matter what unless something really horrific occurs such as the reasons I gave above.

                      Please give some advice… am I being crazy here?
                      I would get out.

                      It doesn't matter if you don't consider yourself stingy or whatever. If she decides one day that you are, then that's it.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Ma shaa Allah for thinking you want to stick with her whatever happens...thats the right attitute towards marriage..... words are different than actions,she can say a lot of things and act totally different later....now there are 2 options in this.....she either doesnt mean it or she really means everything shes says and will act upon it..... if she doesnt mean everything,how do you know that the things she said about raising kids etc are true....and if they are true and she means every single word she says then you will live in contant fear and be controlled by her because you have to be "perfect" in speech or behaviour or else its divorce....you are worried now imagine later.....pray istikhara but for me leave her,youll find a better one in shaa Allah
                        whoever leaves something for the sake of Allah,Allah will replace it with something better

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          I presented some of these points to her and she admitted she was wrong to think that way and agreed whats not what marriage is about. Alhamdullilah. JazaakAllahKhayr.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            There are two possible things that could be happening here.
                            1) She's trying to test you and see if you can call her out and not be a doormat. Basically if you agree to everything she says blindly because "you'll never get anyone like her" then you have no spine. She trying to see what you're made of. Do you stand for what you believe or go along with what she wants. A leader is supposed to take the path of truth even if it means disappointing your companions. A women will from time to time test her husband and it's normal but and insecure person who lacks tawwakul on Allah SWT will do it more often and it could be problematic.
                            2) She's a hypocrit. And a narcissistic one because of double standards. This is a dangerous sign and I'd advice you to run if this is the case. Don't be fooled by your emotions and nafs. You don't know the horrors of an abusive controlling relationship.

                            I don't know which one it is .... You need to be firm with what you believe and ask Allah swt help. Do ishtikhara.
                            Allah knows best. My words are just from my personal experience and I haven't met every single person on this globe to be an expert. So you are free to take my advice or leave it.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              I want to comment by saying that being loyal to your future wife and not wanting to divorce except for huge matters is, in sha Allah, a praiseworthy quality.

                              Unfortunately, not everyone has the same type of loyalty and level of sacrifice. In order for the family to be successful, and for the kids to have a good Islamic and/or worldly education, be kept away from haram, and grow up to be close to their parents and other siblings, the mother especially has to sacrifice much to attain this. She has to give herself to her husband, family, and home; just like the husband must take his role seriously and provide for them and protect them, etc.

                              But not everyone has this level of loyalty. How many men divorce their wives because they fall in love with someone else, or because he finds someone else attractive? How many women seek divorce because she doesn't want to be "controlled" in the marriage and she thinks she's better off single, or she has thoughts of marrying someone else? Or both men and women seek a divorce for a problem that can be solved?

                              As for your specific case, I think it's hard to judge her based on your post. It could be that she is saying those things because that is what her parents and environment taught her to do if conflict arises with husband. It is definitely a protective measure. This is how she is looking to protect herself from you.

                              You also have to keep in mind that no one will have all the things you want. At least you know this about her before marriage. Many people marry then discover their red flags after marriage. Since you like each other and have all those things in common, this may be overlooked, depending on whether or not she is a controlling, manipulative type or not. If she is, then you have to reconsider your commitment to marry her.

                              Comment

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