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Is it a risk marrying someone just for their deen?

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  • savo234
    replied
    Originally posted by Layla_ View Post
    Assalamu alaykum

    apologies, this may seem like a bit of a silly thread but it’s been on my mind for some time now so Insha Allah khayr

    in Islam, we are told to marry someone on the basis of their deen, but how exactly are we supposed to determine ones ‘religiousness’?. We all know that the length of ones beard, or how far above the ankles their trousers are rolled does not indicate the level of their religious commitment, so what else are we supposed to look for?

    If we look at actions, then a student of knowledge can have bad akhlaaq. Or they can study, but not implement. My ex husband was a student of knowledge & when we got married, I was quite shocked to see that he wouldn’t pray his sunnah prayers. This is someone who would proclaim his love for the sunnah & claim to be a very practising individual.

    Additionally, some brothers may actually be quite practising but to avoid showing off may downplay their good deeds, or even hide them. So there may be a brother who prays tahajjud & fasts Mondays and Thursdays but to avoid showing off, May avoid mentioning this & then you think he’s just a standard brother..

    You also get brothers who do a lot of worship but have very bad manners and are very, very arrogant.

    I keep on hearing horror stories of cases where sisters married purely for the deen & their husband turned out to be a monster Subhanallah.

    obviously, there are many good brothers out there and nobody is denying that but I find when it comes to marriage, a lot of brothers act really sneaky in order to get the sister and then once they are married, their true side comes out

    piety is also a very personal thing.

    If we do things in the correct & halal manner (having meetings with potentials in the presence of others) then this gives people the perfect opportunity to put on a front & people can be very sneaky and also lie about their good deeds

    personally, I think the best way to determine this is to spend time with the potential in the presence of your mahram so that you can see little things about them - is he rude to the waiter? Is he eating in accordance to the sunnah, did he say bismillah, has he slipped up by swearing, does he keep checking his phone etc etc. From small things, we can tell so much about a person.

    but let’s face it, hardly anyone is going to spend time with a potential with their mahram and of course some of us have mahrams who are not really bothered so wouldn’t even entertain such an idea in the first place

    is there a magic formula whereby one can tell if someone is truly a god fearing & practising brother?!
    Looking for Deen is good. The only problem is that how do you judge that. If you are judging someone's seen just by trousers above ankles(which for majority of classical ulama isnt wajib) and if you are judging someone by what he is claiming then the problem is on your end.

    The things one could judge are for example, his views. Thats the basic, you dont wanna end up marrying a liberal/shia/khariji or whatever.

    After you have filtered his views, find a way to know the masjid he prays and ask the people of the masjid about him.

    ​​​​​​So there are checks that can be reasonably done before marriage.

    Leave a comment:


  • Abu julaybeeb
    replied
    Originally posted by Rahma. View Post



    In sha Allah, you do remember this Du'a in the middle or before finishing.
    How Kindly Allah and has given something for the believers in case they forget to say bismillah at the start:

    bismillaahi fee awwalihi wa aakhirihi

    duas.com/dua/320/dua-when-forgetting-to-mention-the-name-of-allah-at-start-of-a-meal


    ¬*
    Yh i do that usually in the middle of eating
    if i forger bismillah

    Leave a comment:


  • Rahma.
    replied
    Originally posted by Abu julaybeeb View Post
    Sometimes i forget to say bismillah when im proper hungry doesnt mean im bad


    In sha Allah, you do remember this Du'a in the middle or before finishing.
    How Kindly Allah and has given something for the believers in case they forget to say bismillah at the start:

    bismillaahi fee awwalihi wa aakhirihi

    duas.com/dua/320/dua-when-forgetting-to-mention-the-name-of-allah-at-start-of-a-meal


     

    Leave a comment:


  • Rahma.
    replied


    Teachers have said that marrying for Deen doesn't mean just marrying someone who prays and fasts etc, i.e. does outward acts of worship. Their Deen is to mean their overall character and perspective of life, Dunya and Akhirah.

    A teacher also made a point about how in Hadith it is mentioned how a WOMAN is considered in marriage for four things: lineage/status, wealth, beauty and her Deen, and marry her for her Deen and be successful.

    And that this following Hadith speaks of what a MAN is considered for:

    "If someone proposes marriage to you [and] you are pleased with his religion/way of living (Deenahu) and his character (Khuluqahu), then marry him. If you do not do so, there will be trials on the earth and the spread of corruption." [A-Tirmidhi, Sahih by Al-Albani]

    So this Hadith mentions the actual word for character [khuluq] as well as the word Deen. It's quite amazing that, if you think about it, a man's character is much more important to a woman because HE has to lead her and protect her!

    And also:

    "The most complete of the believers in faith are those with the best character, and the best of you are the best in conduct with their women." [A-Tirmidhi, Sahih]


    Impressive difference in Hadith, right?

    Wallahu a'lam.





     

    Leave a comment:


  • MyUsernameIs...
    replied
    Good character trumps all.
    Thereafter he should fulfil the basics of the deen - salah, fasting etc

    Any further criteria comes down to your personal preference ...looks, job, family status etc

    Lets keep it simple.

    Leave a comment:


  • Layla_
    replied
    Originally posted by Abu julaybeeb View Post
    Dont marry someone just for deen there has to be some attraction and also they should be able to provide or have the ability or to get a good enough so they can provide

    Muhammed صلي الله عليه وسلم looked down away from a women who proposed to him and some scholars say this was due to no attraction

    yes deen is most important so prioritise that but if yoh find someone completely unnattractive do not marry them also dont if you think they wont be able to provide
    these things can cause problems in marriage and even divorce

    to find out if a brother truely is a good practising guy
    (youl never truely know him until you live with him) you can find out alot still
    First of all dont rush take your time speak for a while maybe 2 or 3 months
    if hes not bothered to wait that long then forget him hes obviously not patient enough to wait for you
    Sometimes infront of mehrams or in public meetings people put on a show so you need to speak to them in a relaxed environment
    speaking over the phone or via messaging on phone on a long term period like couple months you can get to know someone
    also in meetings face to face ask what are their bad habits (if it rakes them time to think its probably not true when it comes to habits)
    what do they need to improve on
    how would he deal with or resolve marital issues and arguments
    how would he deal with his in laws if a problem occured
    how does he behave when hes angry and what does he do
    also how does he relieve anger and stress

    also try to get references from people who know if possible without him knowing if thats not possible than ask him for reference ( although they may be bias)

    many people focus on ibaadah but nor adab and akhlaaq
    see his charachter his manners the way he interacts with people in good and bad times
    find out about him do checks ask people
    ( treat it like a crb check)

    imam maliks mother said to imam malik along the lines of when you go to the shaykh to learn
    learn manners before knowledge

    Muhammed صلي الله عليه وسلم said i came to perfect manners

    good charachter in good and bad times shows fear of Allah and although no one is perfect you can see whem people are sincere and genuinely trying to improve


    speak to the person via messaging for a while
    maybe even a call (but not alot as that can lead to sinning)

    then meet couple times that way in meetings your not asking questions because you already did that instead your getting to know the person

    Yes speaking too much may lead to sins but you have to just try and remember Allah and keep boundaries and i thinks its better to do this than get married and find out hes a wasteman then get abused or divorced


    (if anyone tries to use hadith about not delaying nikkah say yes its true u shouldnt delay nikkah but thats when its been decided that this marriage will occur )
    Marriage bandit 101


    Good post. I do agree in that ¬†it is important to at least have a couple of conversations on the phone.. I didnít have my ex husbands number till after nikah lol so I do know where I went wrong.


    For me personally, I donít think the question & answer type of meetings is very accurate. Many brothers lie & learn a script & then use this to impress you. Obviously you do get brothers who will speak the truth, but if someone wants to marry you, they are obviously going to answer the questions in a way in which they think you want them to be answered.¬†
     

    Leave a comment:


  • Abu julaybeeb
    replied
    Dont marry someone just for deen there has to be some attraction and also they should be able to provide or have the ability or to get a good enough so they can provide

    Muhammed صلي الله عليه وسلم looked down away from a women who proposed to him and some scholars say this was due to no attraction

    yes deen is most important so prioritise that but if yoh find someone completely unnattractive do not marry them also dont if you think they wont be able to provide
    these things can cause problems in marriage and even divorce

    to find out if a brother truely is a good practising guy
    (youl never truely know him until you live with him) you can find out alot still
    First of all dont rush take your time speak for a while maybe 2 or 3 months
    if hes not bothered to wait that long then forget him hes obviously not patient enough to wait for you
    Sometimes infront of mehrams or in public meetings people put on a show so you need to speak to them in a relaxed environment
    speaking over the phone or via messaging on phone on a long term period like couple months you can get to know someone
    also in meetings face to face ask what are their bad habits (if it rakes them time to think its probably not true when it comes to habits)
    what do they need to improve on
    how would he deal with or resolve marital issues and arguments
    how would he deal with his in laws if a problem occured
    how does he behave when hes angry and what does he do
    also how does he relieve anger and stress

    also try to get references from people who know if possible without him knowing if thats not possible than ask him for reference ( although they may be bias)

    many people focus on ibaadah but nor adab and akhlaaq
    see his charachter his manners the way he interacts with people in good and bad times
    find out about him do checks ask people
    ( treat it like a crb check)

    imam maliks mother said to imam malik along the lines of when you go to the shaykh to learn
    learn manners before knowledge

    Muhammed صلي الله عليه وسلم said i came to perfect manners

    good charachter in good and bad times shows fear of Allah and although no one is perfect you can see whem people are sincere and genuinely trying to improve


    speak to the person via messaging for a while
    maybe even a call (but not alot as that can lead to sinning)

    then meet couple times that way in meetings your not asking questions because you already did that instead your getting to know the person

    Yes speaking too much may lead to sins but you have to just try and remember Allah and keep boundaries and i thinks its better to do this than get married and find out hes a wasteman then get abused or divorced


    (if anyone tries to use hadith about not delaying nikkah say yes its true u shouldnt delay nikkah but thats when its been decided that this marriage will occur )
    Marriage bandit 101



    Leave a comment:


  • Layla_
    replied
    Originally posted by Abu julaybeeb View Post
    Sometimes i forget to say bismillah when im proper hungry doesnt mean im bad
    Indeed it doesnít.¬†

     

    Leave a comment:


  • Layla_
    replied
    Originally posted by Indefinable View Post

    It's natural to be anxious and cautious.¬*

    Especially if you have had prior negative experiences.

    At the same time - don't look at each potential trying to "catch them out". I don't think that is healthy.

    Rather, seek compatibility.¬*

    As for piety, then we do not really know of how pious anyone is, until we live them.¬*

    You find out more about a person's character, by their relationships with others.¬*


    ¬*
    True, I think compatibility is key

    Leave a comment:


  • Indefinable
    replied
    Originally posted by Layla_ View Post

    Itís not about looking for a replacement right away, rather not wanting to make the same mistake again

    a believer doesnít get bitten in the same hole twice ..
    It's natural to be anxious and cautious. 

    Especially if you have had prior negative experiences.

    At the same time - don't look at each potential trying to "catch them out". I don't think that is healthy.

    Rather, seek compatibility. 

    As for piety, then we do not really know of how pious anyone is, until we live them. 

    You find out more about a person's character, by their relationships with others. 


     

    Leave a comment:


  • Abu julaybeeb
    replied
    Sometimes i forget to say bismillah when im proper hungry doesnt mean im bad

    Leave a comment:


  • Layla_
    replied
    Originally posted by Abu Abdur_Rahman View Post
    There's a defining factor for why a girl or woman would marry a particular brother. Either for his looks, his wealth, his status, etc. I don't see how a person marries only for religion, especially a woman.

    If you say that a sister will marry a guy for his beard and thobe and not look into anything else about him, then that's foolish and silly.

    You should marry for his religion. But the issue is sometimes we don't know how to judge religious commitment. Or desires are mixed with it and he's really married for his status or wealth. You have to look at his prayer, lifestyle, how he treats others, his friends, etc.¬*

    If all that checked out and it turns out you didn't like each other, then it is what it is. You can be patient and try to make it work - and it often does work out after being patient and trying to make it work - or you can divorce.

    We in the West lack patience when it comes to marriages and are looking for a replacement right away.

    Main point is, let's define what religous commitment is according to the Sunnah, not use our own definition of it based on no evidence from the Sharee'ah.
    Itís not about looking for a replacement right away, rather not wanting to make the same mistake again

    a believer doesnít get bitten in the same hole twice ..

    Leave a comment:


  • FKY
    replied
    There will always be a risk in whatever you do. Fine judging someone can take years, checking for sincerity and consistency in character and deen etc and even then people can surprise you. Marriage is a combination of blessings and trials so nothing will be 100% or even 90. You need to know what you can live with and go from there.

    Leave a comment:


  • Abu Abdur_Rahman
    replied
    There's a defining factor for why a girl or woman would marry a particular brother. Either for his looks, his wealth, his status, etc. I don't see how a person marries only for religion, especially a woman.

    If you say that a sister will marry a guy for his beard and thobe and not look into anything else about him, then that's foolish and silly.

    You should marry for his religion. But the issue is sometimes we don't know how to judge religious commitment. Or desires are mixed with it and he's really married for his status or wealth. You have to look at his prayer, lifestyle, how he treats others, his friends, etc.¬*

    If all that checked out and it turns out you didn't like each other, then it is what it is. You can be patient and try to make it work - and it often does work out after being patient and trying to make it work - or you can divorce.

    We in the West lack patience when it comes to marriages and are looking for a replacement right away.

    Main point is, let's define what religous commitment is according to the Sunnah, not use our own definition of it based on no evidence from the Sharee'ah.
    Last edited by Abu Abdur_Rahman; 29-05-19, 01:30 PM.

    Leave a comment:


  • Abu Abdur_Rahman
    replied
    Originally posted by Stoic Believer View Post

    Rule of thumb #1: avoid brothers who like being in the spotlight, or who seek status or to be known.

    Rule of thumb #2: Avoid brothers who "claim" religiosity or piety. This shows a lack of humility and introspection.

    Most of the time, the good brothers keep to themselves and don't flaunt.

    But you should always get references from people who have worked with him, or dealt with him, or have done business with him. Try not to ask people who have a vested interest in lying to you, like his family. Although if his family are honest, they can shed light on his nature like no one else can.
    We have been training you well.

    Leave a comment:

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