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Wanting to marry a talib/talibah of knowledge

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  • Wanting to marry a talib/talibah of knowledge

    This thread is about those few Muslims/Muslimahs in the West who seek to marry a talib/talibah al-'ilm (seeker of Islamic knowledge).

    For the brothers and sisters who haven't traveled overseas and experienced what's like to live in the land of the Arabs, they may paint a picture in their mind of how it is like. Growing up in the environment we experience here in the West, one may instinctively glorify the entire endeavor of traveling to seek knowledge.

    Brothers and especially sisters - and even more so: revert sisters with no proper wali/male guardian - should really be careful and be aware of the reality of Western brothers and sisters traveling to Egypt, Saudi, etc. to seek Islamic knowledge.

    To be clear, I have made my share of mistakes and I do not declare myself pure before Allah. However, the truth must be said and it is clear for anyone who observes reality. During my time spent in Egypt, Saudi Arabia, the UAE, and a brief time in Jordan, etc.; as well as speaking and connecting with senior tullab 'ilm (if you will) and shuyookh, I have seen that most of the brothers who travel overseas to Egypt or Saudi, etc. have major issues.

    The point is, just because a brother puts on a thobe and grows his beard and travels overseas to learn Arabic or study some other Islamic knowledge doesn't mean he doing that sincerely for the sake of Allah. Allah knows what is in the hearts, but sometimes people's actions tell us something about what their hearts contain. Such as:

    1. Not praying salah on time or not praying in the masjid, although the masjid (in Egypt or Saudi) will be 10 feet away their apartment building. Seeing them for Fajr would be a rare site.

    2. Wasting time in the cafes, juice bars, and playing video games (yes some travel to Egypt to attend Arabic class for 2 hours a day and then waste the rest of the time playing games).

    3. Poor akhlaq. In fact, many average Muslims have better manners. Walking in groups and laughing and poking fun at people as they encounter them. Backbiting and making fun of others, and other such nonsense.

    4. Not being determined enough to actually learn and lacking motivation to read and memorize. Also, focusing heavily on speaking Arabic and memorizing certain things (such as names of scholars) to sound like one has knowledge to the average person.

    5. Not lowering their gaze and spending their whole time there looking for a sister to marry. He traveled all the way to Egypt so that Shaytan can toy with him and so all that he thinks of his is sexual desires and who to marry.

    In the end, he wastes himself and his money, and he caused his parents and family trouble for little to no benefit. He could have stayed in the US and got his degree and started working to benefit himself and get on his feet; but he chose to go overseas and now he is lost. That is for those who actually make it to one or two or more years - most just go back after a few months.

    In conclusion, brothers and sisters should beware and judge a potential based on his or her salah, first and foremost. If it is good, then his religion will most likely be good. Next, how much time does he or she actually give to seeking knowledge sincerely and applying that knowledge on themselves? And lastly, judge him or her based on their akhlaq in general (with Allah and His creation). If these points check out, and he or she is a genuine and sincere person to Allah, then both of you can make a plan for the future to go overseas and spend time learning and getting closer to Allah. It is not a condition that he or she must already be overseas.

    Allah knows best.



  • .khayriyyah.
    replied
    Originally posted by Kaas View Post

    Yea you may be right, but then that person of knowledge may be of those who knows but does not impliment, which may make him less religious than that layman... but then how do you know that before marrying him right
    Check out what people who are close to him have to say about his level of religious commitment and put your trust in Allah.

    Leave a comment:


  • Kaas
    replied
    Originally posted by .khayriyyah. View Post

    They may know and understand the rights of their family, but it doesnt mean they'll care enough to implement that knowledge. I've known of sisters who were married to prominent people in the community and they ended up treating them like dirt. Of course not all of them were like that, but being knowledgeable doesn't mean they'll really care to be there for their family. A layperson may know the rights of their spouse and be better in this respect. I used to think having knowledge meant something, but I really don't think so anymore.
    Yea you may be right, but then that person of knowledge may be of those who knows but does not impliment, which may make him less religious than that layman... but then how do you know that before marrying him right

    Leave a comment:


  • usernametaken
    replied
    There's an assumption that religious people inc students of knowledge have their lives together or will make good choices but that's not necessarily true, you still have to do your research and ask questions. I've heard of a religious person who divorced his wife because she attended family weddings. Was this not discussed before and how can a person leave their children behind over this? If that was even the issue. Obviously the issues here might have been freemixing but if it was not discussed before you can't expect everyone to go your way.

    Leave a comment:


  • Indefinable
    replied
    Originally posted by Ya'sin View Post

    This is what happens most of the time

    The expectation that someone will change their ways after marriage is a high one and quite risky.

    It is definitely better to tell the person what you don't agree with or something you wouldn't like your spouse to wear or do.
    Exactly. It's a risk. Why take a risk with something so important.

    It's better to ask all the necessary questions beforehand, see if you're on the same page and the go ahead. Way less drama.


    Leave a comment:


  • Ya'sin
    replied
    Originally posted by Indefinable View Post

    Isn't it better to avoid those problems after marriage by discussing them beforehand?

    Not everyone is willing to change. She might not agree with him.
    This is what happens most of the time

    The expectation that someone will change their ways after marriage is a high one and quite risky.

    It is definitely better to tell the person what you don't agree with or something you wouldn't like your spouse to wear or do.

    Leave a comment:


  • Indefinable
    replied
    Originally posted by Juwairiyyah View Post

    No, it sounds awkward and slightly offensive to me. If he has a problem with the way she dresses at home after marriage he can talk to her about it and she can change. It's not a deal-breaker and not something that needs to be discussed before marriage.
    Isn't it better to avoid those problems after marriage by discussing them beforehand?

    Not everyone is willing to change. She might not agree with him.

    Leave a comment:


  • Juwairiyyah
    replied
    Originally posted by Kaas View Post

    that would probably be an alright question to avoid a wife thats in sweatpants all the time lol
    No, it sounds awkward and slightly offensive to me. If he has a problem with the way she dresses at home after marriage he can talk to her about it and she can change. It's not a deal-breaker and not something that needs to be discussed before marriage.

    Leave a comment:


  • .khayriyyah.
    replied
    Originally posted by savo234 View Post

    Someone studying Islam is'nt a certificate of him being of good character, it doesnt even prove that the person is on haq or if he is even well grounded in knowledge.

    However the gems who have character, are well-grounded in islamic knowledge can also be found among these tulaab/ulama.

    Therefore the suitor who wants to marry talib/talibah still has to filter out.
    A lot of converts have a very naive view of the Muslim community that takes time to shake. At first I thought Muslims would be decent because of Islam, but then I realized that's really not the case. Then I thought people with knowledge would be decent because at least they studied and you'd expect them to implement what they learned, but you live and learn. I'm definitely not saying all of them are bad, but they're only human and the title of whatever they are or wherever they studied doesn't always mean they truly follow Islam.

    Leave a comment:


  • savo234
    replied
    Originally posted by .khayriyyah. View Post

    But what about when you and your kids need them? For example, I had gone to 9 or 10 people of knowledge in the community to be my wali and none of them were able to properly help. Many of them were too busy to help, so when I'd try to get in contact, there was no reply. I dealt with men on my own. I couldn't help but wonder how it must feel to be a family member or a wife. Of course they can prioritize and aren't going to give some revert and their family the same amount of attention, but I really doubt this doesn't spill into their personal life. That must be a trial on it's own.
    The time is a real issue. I have been contemplating personally to enroll in an aalim program and the biggest problem is that we dont have funding, scholarships as we used to have in our history. So a student of knowledge is expected to earn as well as devote time to study Islam which is quite an issue. The only solution I thought to myself was to do part-time some freelancing as an engineer and then devote other time to studying Islam.

    Also the most critical part is when a person is studying, at this time he can only focus on earning minimum to survive. After aalim studies are finished, things may become easier.

    Ofcourse it cuts down the time that one could give to kids however this problem can be solved by a number of steps like having good relations with community. Like the wife can have other women, extended family to help out and likewise kids can go with uncles(friends or relatives of husband) to school etc.

    The main problem is'nt the time itself. A woman can be patient with a man of good character who loves her and cant give her enough time but cannot be patient with a man of bad character. I know sisters who have patiently waited(lived separately) due to visa issues after marriage because they were on good terms with the man. However if the woman is'nt on good terms, she will not be willing to sacrifice.

    ​​​​​​​As for your experience, I think the scholars/imams have an option to offer some services on optional charges like becoming a wali for a revert sister and meeting/investigating a bunch of suitors takes time therefore if the revert sister can afford, she can be charged optionally.
    ​​​​​​

    Leave a comment:


  • savo234
    replied
    Originally posted by .khayriyyah. View Post
    I used to think having knowledge meant something, but I really don't think so anymore.
    Someone studying Islam is'nt a certificate of him being of good character, it doesnt even prove that the person is on haq or if he is even well grounded in knowledge.

    However the gems who have character, are well-grounded in islamic knowledge can also be found among these tulaab/ulama.

    Therefore the suitor who wants to marry talib/talibah still has to filter out.

    Leave a comment:


  • .khayriyyah.
    replied
    Originally posted by LailaTheMuslim View Post

    true, idk I didn't consider how my kids would fare. They read about Islam, but its odd that some don't apply the Prophet PBUH's way of dealing with his wives, even though he had the duty of Prophethood he also made lots of time for them.
    Yeah. The time you'd have to yourself would be short lived.

    May Allah guide us all.
    Last edited by .khayriyyah.; 16-03-19, 07:44 PM.

    Leave a comment:


  • .khayriyyah.
    replied
    Originally posted by Kaas View Post

    Reminds me of a hadith i read the other day

    149. Abu Juhaifah (May Allah be pleased with him) reported: The Prophet (sallallaahu ’alayhi wa sallam) made a bond of brotherhood between Salman and Abud-Darda'. Salman paid a visit to Abud-Darda' and found Umm Darda' (his wife) dressed in shabby clothes and asked her why she was in that state. She replied: "Your brother Abud-Darda' is not interested in (the luxuries of) this world. In the meantime Abud-Darda' came in and prepared a meal for Salman. Salman requested Abud-Darda' to eat (with him) but Abud-Darda' said: "I am fasting.'' Salman said: "I am not going to eat unless you eat.'' So, Abud-Darda' ate (with Salman). When it was night and (a part of the night passed), Abud-Darda' got up (to offer the night prayer) but Salman asked him to sleep and Abud-Darda' slept. After some time Abud-Darda' again got up but Salman asked him to sleep. When it was the last hours of the night, Salman asked him to get up and both of them offered (Tahajjud) prayer. Then Salman told Abud-Darda': "You owe a duty to your Rubb, you owe a duty to your body; you owe a duty to your family; so you should give to every one his due. Abud-Darda' came to the Prophet (sallallaahu ’alayhi wa sallam) and reported the whole story. Prophet (sallallaahu ’alayhi wa sallam) said,"Salman is right".
    [Al-Bukhari].



    Either way, a husband can be busy wether he is a student of knowledge or not, some men are out of the house from morning till night for work, i think in that case you would have the advantage that a student of knowledge knows well enough not to neglect his wifes rights.
    They may know and understand the rights of their family, but it doesnt mean they'll care enough to implement that knowledge. I've known of sisters who were married to prominent people in the community and they ended up treating them like dirt. Of course not all of them were like that, but being knowledgeable doesn't mean they'll really care to be there for their family. A layperson may know the rights of their spouse and be better in this respect. I used to think having knowledge meant something, but I really don't think so anymore.

    Leave a comment:


  • LailaTheMuslim
    replied
    Originally posted by .khayriyyah. View Post

    But what about when you and your kids need them? For example, I had gone to 9 or 10 people of knowledge in the community to be my wali and none of them were able to properly help. Many of them were too busy to help, so when I'd try to get in contact, there was no reply. I dealt with men on my own. I couldn't help but wonder how it must feel to be a family member or a wife. Of course they can prioritize and aren't going to give some revert and their family the same amount of attention, but I really doubt this doesn't spill into their personal life. That must be a trial on it's own.
    true, idk I didn't consider how my kids would fare. They read about Islam, but its odd that some don't apply the Prophet PBUH's way of dealing with his wives, even though he had the duty of Prophethood he also made lots of time for them.

    Leave a comment:


  • Kaas
    replied
    Originally posted by .khayriyyah. View Post

    But what about when you and your kids need them? For example, I had gone to 9 or 10 people of knowledge in the community to be my wali and none of them were able to properly help. Many of them were too busy to help, so when I'd try to get in contact, there was no reply. I dealt with men on my own. I couldn't help but wonder how it must feel to be a family member or a wife. Of course they can prioritize and aren't going to give some revert and their family the same amount of attention, but I really doubt this doesn't spill into their personal life. That must be a trial on it's own.
    Reminds me of a hadith i read the other day

    149. Abu Juhaifah (May Allah be pleased with him) reported: The Prophet (sallallaahu ’alayhi wa sallam) made a bond of brotherhood between Salman and Abud-Darda'. Salman paid a visit to Abud-Darda' and found Umm Darda' (his wife) dressed in shabby clothes and asked her why she was in that state. She replied: "Your brother Abud-Darda' is not interested in (the luxuries of) this world. In the meantime Abud-Darda' came in and prepared a meal for Salman. Salman requested Abud-Darda' to eat (with him) but Abud-Darda' said: "I am fasting.'' Salman said: "I am not going to eat unless you eat.'' So, Abud-Darda' ate (with Salman). When it was night and (a part of the night passed), Abud-Darda' got up (to offer the night prayer) but Salman asked him to sleep and Abud-Darda' slept. After some time Abud-Darda' again got up but Salman asked him to sleep. When it was the last hours of the night, Salman asked him to get up and both of them offered (Tahajjud) prayer. Then Salman told Abud-Darda': "You owe a duty to your Rubb, you owe a duty to your body; you owe a duty to your family; so you should give to every one his due. Abud-Darda' came to the Prophet (sallallaahu ’alayhi wa sallam) and reported the whole story. Prophet (sallallaahu ’alayhi wa sallam) said,"Salman is right".
    [Al-Bukhari].



    Either way, a husband can be busy wether he is a student of knowledge or not, some men are out of the house from morning till night for work, i think in that case you would have the advantage that a student of knowledge knows well enough not to neglect his wifes rights.

    Leave a comment:

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