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Please advise on dispute between husband and wife over wedding

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  • Please advise on dispute between husband and wife over wedding

    Assalamalaikum everyone.
    Me and my wife have been married for 18 months and now have a 6 month old baby. My wife was aware of my previous 2 children from my first marriage aged 10 and 8 and they came to our wedding( in uk).
    My brother in law has an upcoming wedding and their family have requested that my 2 eldest children do not sit at the head table with their father and baby but sit with their grandparents and family at a seperate table(my mother). They have requested that the children should avoid meeting me at the wedding until after the wedding. They state that the reason for this is that they have not told anyone in their family/friends about the children from previous marriage and therefore would like to keep it that way.
    Myself and my family feel this is an inapproprite request. My wife and her family feel it is an appropriate request.

    Please can brothers and sisters give impartial advice on this sensitive issue.

    jazakhallah khair

  • shay5
    replied
    Just go to the event to keep your wife happy. These idiots lied when they shouldn't have and it is going to haunt them for a long time... if your wife was in on the lie then this is disgusting...also inform them that youre not going to lie if anyone ever asks how many chidlren you have...did they even tell people you were a widow/divorcee etc?

    Did they assume you were going to dump your kids as soon as you got the new wife?

    Leave a comment:


  • abdulsidd
    replied
    Originally posted by ~TwinklingStar~ View Post
    Imagine if a man has 2 wives.

    The family of the second wife is not obliged to invite his first wife and children from his first marriage to their daughter's marriage . It is their wish if they don't want to let their extended relatives and friends know his history. It's entirely upto them if they do not want to include them in their future gatherings.

    Similarly, the first wife's family also has no obligation to invite the second wife or her kids to their gatherings. It's their wish if they want to keep it a secret that their daughter's husband has married again and has other kids.

    The man may get offended as he wants everyone to accept both his families, but that's rarely going to happen. Pakistani culture has always had a negative version of "saukans" and everything related to it.

    In many parts of the country, when a husband's wife dies and young kids are involved, he usually marries his late wife's younger sister. For obvious reasons.

    That's one reason why polygamy is difficult to handle. Most of the time, it ends up as a big failure because the man cannot maintain a balance between both families and blames it upon his wife(wives) for not being co-operative, not realising his wives don't have to be friends to one another or be more accommodating or even make it easier for him. They will demand their rights as all wives do. As a man, he should be able to do justice. If he's immature and unable to handle the extra responsibility, he will make a mess of his life.

    In the OP's case, it seems like the wife was aware he had children, but they weren't going to be living with him after marriage. So, it's now completely upon the man to maintain a balance between both families without taking away the rights of either parties. He cannot force his wife to include them in "her" family gatherings if she doesn't want to, because she didn't sign up as being their primary care-taker.

    Out of kindness, she should, ofcourse. But if she wishes to be selfish about it, you cannot really take her to task.

    Similarly, the Shariah hasn't made it compulsary upon the woman to serve and take care of her husband's parents or live with them, but if they're in a situation which necessitates it, a wife definitely should, out of kindness and good manners and hope of reward from Allah. If she refuses for selfish reasons, you cannot hold her to blame, but it says a lot about her character.

    Sensitive situations such as these don't require fatwas and emotional blackmails, they need to be handled with tact and wisdom.
    The comparison with polygamy doesn't fit here. In Islam, after a certain age, the father gets custody of the kids, in the case of divorce. If he is a widower, then of course he has custody. That means they stay with him. Just because he gets married again doesn't mean the kids are kicked out of the house. Rather the new wife needs to integrate into the existing family. They aren't two separate families as in the case of 2 wives.

    Leave a comment:


  • ~TwinklingStar~
    replied
    Imagine if a man has 2 wives.

    The family of the second wife is not obliged to invite his first wife and children from his first marriage to their daughter's marriage . It is their wish if they don't want to let their extended relatives and friends know his history. It's entirely upto them if they do not want to include them in their future gatherings.

    Similarly, the first wife's family also has no obligation to invite the second wife or her kids to their gatherings. It's their wish if they want to keep it a secret that their daughter's husband has married again and has other kids.

    The man may get offended as he wants everyone to accept both his families, but that's rarely going to happen. Pakistani culture has always had a negative version of "saukans" and everything related to it.

    In many parts of the country, when a husband's wife dies and young kids are involved, he usually marries his late wife's younger sister. For obvious reasons.

    That's one reason why polygamy is difficult to handle. Most of the time, it ends up as a big failure because the man cannot maintain a balance between both families and blames it upon his wife(wives) for not being co-operative, not realising his wives don't have to be friends to one another or be more accommodating or even make it easier for him. They will demand their rights as all wives do. As a man, he should be able to do justice. If he's immature and unable to handle the extra responsibility, he will make a mess of his life.

    In the OP's case, it seems like the wife was aware he had children, but they weren't going to be living with him after marriage. So, it's now completely upon the man to maintain a balance between both families without taking away the rights of either parties. He cannot force his wife to include them in "her" family gatherings if she doesn't want to, because she didn't sign up as being their primary care-taker.

    Out of kindness, she should, ofcourse. But if she wishes to be selfish about it, you cannot really take her to task.

    Similarly, the Shariah hasn't made it compulsary upon the woman to serve and take care of her husband's parents or live with them, but if they're in a situation which necessitates it, a wife definitely should, out of kindness and good manners and hope of reward from Allah. If she refuses for selfish reasons, you cannot hold her to blame, but it says a lot about her character.

    Sensitive situations such as these don't require fatwas and emotional blackmails, they need to be handled with tact and wisdom.

    Leave a comment:


  • abdulsidd
    replied
    I think its reasonable to expect your wife to take care of your kids from a previous marriage just as anyone would expect a husband to take care of his wife's kids from a previous marriage. There is plenty of precedent in the Shariah, such as the Companion who was a virgin yet married a widow or divorcee to take care of his young sisters or even Rasulullah :saw: taking care of the children of his wives.

    Sure, you don't expect that she will love them the same as her own kids, but you should expect that she will take care of your kids and treat them with respect, kindness, and compassion rather than trying to isolate them from you.

    Leave a comment:


  • neelu
    replied
    When I read the first post, my first thought was that it's fine if your older kids sit with their grandparents during the wedding. They don't need to be at the head table and that's not a big deal.... but then they expect you to be at the head table and not admit to anyone that they are your kids- they can't have it both ways. I realise it's awkward for them to even invite your kids in the first place if they don't want anyone to know who they are but then they can't expect YOU to keep up the pretence and pretend they aren't your kids whilst you're there. If they'd just said that you can sit at the same table as your kids and your parents, I think that would've settled the issue... but the fact that they've kept your older kids a secret is THEIR problem and they shouldn't make it your problem. If no one asks about your kids, then there's no need to tell anyone who they are, but if anyone does directly ask, then you can't be expected to keep up the pretence.

    It does seem to me like your wife wants to have her cake and eat it. I don't know what to advise about the holiday cos' I don't know the situation with your older kids. Do they live with you full time or do they live with their mum separately at least half the time? If they live with you full time then your wife has to accept that this will entail a level of greater responsibility on her part to accommodate them. If they live with their mum half the time then they don't have to go on holidays with you and your wife and it's possible that she wants some alone time and space with you- that's not unreasonable. Having said that, she can't exclude them completely because they're still part of your life and they are entitled to quality time with you as well. Whether that means your older children have day trips with you or holidays or whatever else, they have a right to that quality time and attention from you. I'd suggest that you say to her that if she wants a holiday with just you and your youngest child then that's fine, but if she insists on excluding the older children then you reserve the right to take your next holiday with just the older children and not take her with you. Like I said, she can't have it both ways and has to accept that your older children are a part of your life even if she'd rather keep some distance and spend more time with just you- that's okay as long as she doesn't insist on so much alone time that results in neglecting the older kids. Don't expect her to treat your older kids like her own kids- they aren't her own kids, they are your kids and that makes them your responsibility.

    Leave a comment:


  • abdulsidd
    replied
    Originally posted by Iofthetiger View Post
    Assalamalaikum everyone. Thanks for everyones replies on this matter. Just an update on how things have progressed.

    My wife now accepts that this request maybe inappropriate but she still maintains that this request still stands. I have spoken to her mother and although she apologises for the offence that it has caused, she has still requested the same condition.

    My family are not happy at all at this situation and almost certainly wont be coming unless they change their request. Im not happy sending my older kids to this event.

    My wife has now requested that I come myself without any of my family(if they dont agree to come). She claims if I wasnt there, it would be very embarrasing for herself and she wants me to come for her sake.

    She claims she has spoken to a mufti who has advised that I should go to the wedding alone if necessary. She also claims that he has advised that my 2 eldest children do not need to go on holidays with herself and the youngest(dont know relevence of this to wedding but there you go). She is also claiming that if I dont go, this will lead to the breakdown of the marriage.

    My personal opinion is that if I go it sets a bad precedent and is rewarding her families dishonesty and lying about the children.

    Please can anyone advise further on this tricky and covoluted mattee
    The bold is a big red flag regarding your wife's attitude toward your older children. I do not expect her to love them the same as her own child, but at least the treatment should be equal and just. It seems that she is trying to separate your older kids from the rest of the family unit rather than embracing them and making the family more cohesive. You should be wary of leaving them with her as she might be abusive toward them. How does she treat them currently?

    You should maintain your stance that you will not go to the wedding. Also let her know that the breakdown of the marriage that she is threatening will leave her in the same situation as you are currently in and she might want to reflect on that a bit. At the very last minute you should relent and go to the wedding, but only after her and her family have learned their lesson and begged you to attend. And even then you need to be very clear that you won't tolerate any mistreatment or unequal treatment of your older kids again. Otherwise this situation will repeat at every event in the future.

    Leave a comment:


  • Nusaiba
    replied
    Sometimes I get annoyed that my husband doesn't pander much to cultural sensitivity but other times I think he's absolutely right. I asked him about this scenario and his take is simply this with my own elaboration lol:

    Don't go and don't deal with the in laws until they're willing to be more mature. Even if they've apologized, because the request did not change it doesn't really mean anything. They don't have to love the other children equally but they should have had the decency to respect their existence.

    As the husband, you're the leader of this marriage. It's on you to determine how your marriage will be run. If you're going to let her and the in laws walk over you for this issue, it's only the beginning. As you see she's already talking about leaving your kids home from vacations.

    You can love and be good to her. And treat her with kindness but also put your foot down when it comes to abandoning or forgetting your own children. Because they will be able to see it and they will notice and one day they may resent you for it.

    Leave a comment:


  • Mintchocchip
    replied
    Originally posted by ~TwinklingStar~ View Post
    Relax... your elder children won't miss out a lot in life if they don't attend their step-mother's brother's wedding.

    Her immediate family already knows you have children from your previous marriage, why does it bother you so badly that your wife's friends and relatives don't?

    One thing you'll have to accept is that your wife or her family is NEVER going to love your children from your previous marriage the way they'll love her own children.

    Perhaps it's hard for you to digest this as you love all your children equally, that's why you're trying to force them to announce to the world that their daughter's husband has 2 other children as well.

    Do you really think even if they were completely honest about it, they'll change their attitude towards your kids & begin loving them as their own and include them in their family's future events? They've already made it clear that they don't want this to happen. Your wife has even hinted she does not want them included in vacations.

    What they're trying to tell you is "We accept you have children from your ex-marriage, but we're sorry, we don't want anything to do with them", while you're deeply hurt and trying to tell them "If you've accepted me, you should also accept my children whole-heartedly."

    Honestly, it wouldn't really matter if your wife's family alienate your children, but you'll have to navigate carefully as to how your wife deals with them. Tread the path with wisdom, you can't force love upon anyone.
    It is not about them loving the children.

    They want to hide the fact he has children. Why?

    He is not saying he is forcing them to announce he has children.

    Also it does not seem like they have accepted he has children from a previous marriage as they would not ask him for silly requests.

    Leave a comment:


  • Abu julaybeeb
    replied
    But with regard to the virtue of sponsoring orphans and the great reward for that, Muslim (2983) narrated that Abu Hurayrah (may Allah be pleased with him) said: The Messenger of Allah (blessings and peace of Allah be upon him) said: “The one who sponsors an orphan, whether it is a relative of his or not, he and I will be like these two in Paradise,” and Maalik pointed with his forefinger and middle finger

    Leave a comment:


  • Abu julaybeeb
    replied
    horrible how someone can marry someone with kids
    but not show love to the step son daughter and exclude them

    Leave a comment:


  • ~TwinklingStar~
    replied
    Relax... your elder children won't miss out a lot in life if they don't attend their step-mother's brother's wedding.

    Her immediate family already knows you have children from your previous marriage, why does it bother you so badly that your wife's friends and relatives don't?

    One thing you'll have to accept is that your wife or her family is NEVER going to love your children from your previous marriage the way they'll love her own children.

    Perhaps it's hard for you to digest this as you love all your children equally, that's why you're trying to force them to announce to the world that their daughter's husband has 2 other children as well.

    Do you really think even if they were completely honest about it, they'll change their attitude towards your kids & begin loving them as their own and include them in their family's future events? They've already made it clear that they don't want this to happen. Your wife has even hinted she does not want them included in vacations.

    What they're trying to tell you is "We accept you have children from your ex-marriage, but we're sorry, we don't want anything to do with them", while you're deeply hurt and trying to tell them "If you've accepted me, you should also accept my children whole-heartedly."

    Honestly, it wouldn't really matter if your wife's family alienate your children, but you'll have to navigate carefully as to how your wife deals with them. Tread the path with wisdom, you can't force love upon anyone.

    Leave a comment:


  • Abu julaybeeb
    replied
    Originally posted by Iofthetiger View Post
    Assalamalaikum everyone. Thanks for everyones replies on this matter. Just an update on how things have progressed.

    My wife now accepts that this request maybe inappropriate but she still maintains that this request still stands. I have spoken to her mother and although she apologises for the offence that it has caused, she has still requested the same condition.

    My family are not happy at all at this situation and almost certainly wont be coming unless they change their request. Im not happy sending my older kids to this event.

    My wife has now requested that I come myself without any of my family(if they dont agree to come). She claims if I wasnt there, it would be very embarrasing for herself and she wants me to come for her sake.

    She claims she has spoken to a mufti who has advised that I should go to the wedding alone if necessary. She also claims that he has advised that my 2 eldest children do not need to go on holidays with herself and the youngest(dont know relevence of this to wedding but there you go). She is also claiming that if I dont go, this will lead to the breakdown of the marriage.

    My personal opinion is that if I go it sets a bad precedent and is rewarding her families dishonesty and lying about the children.

    Please can anyone advise further on this tricky and covoluted mattee
    mufti shouls provide evidence as to why your kids cant come to a holiday with their father
    unless she meanss she wants private time with you away from the kids


    you really should tell your wife that your kids are apart of your life
    she has to accept them

    Leave a comment:


  • Indefinable
    replied
    Originally posted by Indefinable View Post

    Don't go.

    Either she accepts you AND your children or she faces the "embarrassment" of attending alone.

    It seems she's trying to isolate your children from you.
    Maybe I was hasty in my response.

    They apologised, maybe you should go to keep the wife happy (keep the peace) not take the kids.

    It's upto you how big of an issue you want this to be.

    Leave a comment:


  • Mintchocchip
    replied
    If they had not invited your parents and children than that would have been ok if you went alone because your children don't really need to get involved with her family. However her and her family request is just not on.

    You need to be careful because in future she might cause more fitna when you do anything or spend time with your first set of children.

    Why did she marry you? No offence but you were married before and have kids and you know what Pakistani families can be like in them situations. You don't have to answer that but did she marry you for her own gain/selfish reasons?

    Alhumdulillah at least your family are seeing sense and are sticking by your children.



    Leave a comment:

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