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Should little girls wear headscarves?

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  • #16
    Originally posted by Layla_ View Post

    A child is a child. You cannot compare genitals to hair. A non muslim woman and non practising woman will have her hair out but never her genitals (in public). We don’t ‘teach’ our children that this needs to be covered either, it’s a natural thing to do and even when Adam and Hawa had no concept of awra, they covered their private parts. Non Muslim children have their private parts covered but that doesn’t mean their parents are teaching them this, it’s just not a part of the body that has ever been exposed publically.
    First off I don't think we should be looking at what non Muslims do to determine what we should. Second, the dress code for non Muslims has been rapidly deteriorating, if you look at pictures from the 18th century you'll see for many non Muslim women the headscarf was part of their attire. Today many non Muslim women wear things that expose a lot, sometimes even their genitals and breasts, and this is deemed as appropriate attire for public settings in their culture. There are many western countries where being naked isn't even illegal. I don't understand what you mean when you say non Muslim children aren't taught to cover themselves, surely their parents are the ones that clothe them at an early age?

    With Adam (AS) and Hawa (AS), once they ate the forbidden fruit, their shame or private parts were exposed to them, private parts in an Islamic context means the awrah, not just genitals, idk if genitals are specifically mentioned, maybe you can show me. Does this mean that when they used leaves to cover themselves that Hawa made a headscarf out of leaves? Idk this seems like a question for scholars.

    Feet is also awrah and so is everything apart from hands and face (the opinion I follow) does that mean that i should cover my child up in socks in summer because there is no distinction between the awra of the genitals And feet?
    This is basically what I'm asking.

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    • #17
      Originally posted by Mufti Cheesecake View Post

      First off I don't think we should be looking at what non Muslims do to determine what we should. Second, the dress code for non Muslims has been rapidly deteriorating, if you look at pictures from the 18th century you'll see for many non Muslim women the headscarf was part of their attire. Today many non Muslim women wear things that expose a lot, sometimes even their genitals and breasts, and this is deemed as appropriate attire for public settings in their culture. There are many western countries where being naked isn't even illegal. I don't understand what you mean when you say non Muslim children aren't taught to cover themselves, surely their parents are the ones that clothe them at an early age?

      With Adam (AS) and Hawa (AS), once they ate the forbidden fruit, their shame or private parts were exposed to them, private parts in an Islamic context means the awrah, not just genitals, idk if genitals are specifically mentioned, maybe you can show me. Does this mean that when they used leaves to cover themselves that Hawa made a headscarf out of leaves? Idk this seems like a question for scholars.



      This is basically what I'm asking.
      I have never heard that in Islam private parts refers to awrah and not the actual private parts.

      Which western countries are there where being naked publically (ie when at the supermarket or mall or at a school or college and not a nudist beach) is not illegal? In the U.K. there’s an act which make it illegal and an offence to expose ones genitals publically so I find it very far fetched that you’re saying women expose their genitals in public

      why would hawa as make leaves for a headscarf as obviously the laws of hijab were not out then…

      comparing the covering of the head to the covering of genitals is very extreme
      Last edited by Layla_; 19-09-21, 05:45 PM.
      https://islamicgemsandpearls.wordpress.com

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      • #18
        Originally posted by Layla_ View Post
        I have never heard that in Islam private parts refers to awrah and not the actual private parts.
        Well what did you think awrah was? Where in Islam academia is this concept that private parts = genitals? I think this instead comes from modern culture. And it makes sense too, in Islam the genitals are not the only parts that are private.
        Which western countries are there where being naked publically (ie when at the supermarket or mall or at a school or college and not a nudist beach) is not illegal?
        So like in Spain, New Zealand, even in the UK being nude in public isn't explicitly illegal. Theres many countries where its not explicitly an offence, so certain activists of ideologies can push the boundaries, and they have in history. In many places also, like in Canada or the US, New York, its legal for women to go topless. I'm not saying this is a common practice, just showing that its not explicitly outlawed and especially not enforced, so its not really a part of their moral compass.
        why would hawa as make leaves for a headscarf as obviously the laws of hijab were not out then…
        oh ye I guess that true
        comparing the covering of the head to the covering of genitals is very extreme
        According to what though? Thats what I want to know. Aren't they both awrah for women in public? So where does this distinction come from?

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        • #19
          Covering up came naturally to me growing up. My family is not practicing but are very conservative and the women would always be dressed in loose clothing, no short sleeves, head covered (albeit very loosely) etc. It was an unspoken expectation to be dressed modestly and conservatively and behave accordingly.
          Having said that when I got to my teens, especially late teens, I stop wearing a scarf and gave into the temptations of adorning myself ....I was a young girl and loved dressing up, hair, makeup, the whole shabang.
          Then I grew out of that phase too Alhamdulillah.
          At no point did my parents enforce anything upon me ....at most gently encouraged me. The rest was keeping good company and learning about Islam.

          My point is children should be gently encouraged and lead by example ....the rest is guidance from Allah.
          In a beauty & vanity obsessed world I don't think many people understand what a fitnah covering up can be for women especially in your haydays as a teen. There is no right or wrong way.

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          • #20
            Originally posted by Mufti Cheesecake View Post
            According to what though? Thats what I want to know. Aren't they both awrah for women in public? So where does this distinction come from?
            Common sense.
            Clearly exposing certain parts of the body is more offensive than others.

            Do we really need an academic discussion or scholarly fatwa on something known by our fitrah

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            • #21
              Originally posted by MyUsernameIs... View Post

              Common sense.
              Clearly exposing certain parts of the body is more offensive than others.

              Do we really need an academic discussion or scholarly fatwa on something known by our fitrah
              Yes because its a really dangerous slippery slope to just claim this is common sense fitrah so we should see it this way.

              You say that it came naturally to you, but then you also say there was an unspoken expectation for how you should dress, meaning your environment had a huge influence on you, which is obvious. If we lived in a society where everyone wore full hijab, then you would grow up thinking thats what you should wear. We know of uncontacted tribes and such that live completely nude, because thats how they're brought up. Today in the west, wearing booty shorts and bikinis or whatever is rampant, and so kids are wearing it now too.

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              • #22
                I think the monthly quota for the use of the word "genitals" has been exceeded in this thread.

                Comment


                • #23
                  Originally posted by UmmAbdullah86 View Post

                  I used to agree with that (that the child will naturally follow the mother) but in recent years I see a very different trend. I also know a lot of sisters who 'tone down' their hijab after marriage, because they were only dressing a certain way because of pressure from their parents. One of my daughters struggles with hijab, despite having lots of positive role models.
                  I have no idea how old your daughter is, nor her emvironment

                  The question was "Should little gorls wear headscarves?"

                  I clearly stated my experience and observations
                  ​​​​​​
                  Now, once a CHILD grows older, other thongs enter the picture....TV, cell phones, friends, relatives, all sorts of influences outside of a parents control, and Allah knows where our hearts are

                  But as a general rule, yoing children copy their environment
                  .لا نريد زعيما يخاف البيت الإبيض
                  نريد زعيما يخاف الواحد الأحد
                  دولة الإسلامية باقية





                  Comment


                  • #24
                    Son, I'll assume you know that a woman's awrah in front of mahrams is relaxed, and they obviously still have to cover their genitals (you probably heard of navel till knees which is simply baseless conjecture, it's not defined anywhere).

                    Genitals are the most intimate and private part of any human so you need to drop that poor comparison.

                    However as I said previously I agree that putting hair specifically in a separate category of awrah is simply modern influence from kuffar.

                    You think you know more than my scholar's qiyās? He was more learned than you and all other scholars combined. Yeah, the devil was the greatest scholar too and look where his qiyās of fire being better than tīn got him. Sorry.

                    You follow your scholar's qiyās, and I will follow the Qur'ān and Sunnah.

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      Originally posted by Mufti Cheesecake View Post

                      Yes because its a really dangerous slippery slope to just claim this is common sense fitrah so we should see it this way.
                      It's dangerous to claim that exposing the private areas is not one and the same as exposing the hair? ......what

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        Originally posted by eorlingas View Post
                        i think the monthly quota for the use of the word "genitals" has been exceeded in this thread.
                        CERTAINly
                        Last edited by MyUsernameIs...; 20-09-21, 08:18 AM.

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                        • #27
                          Originally posted by Linkdeutscher View Post
                          (you probably heard of navel till knees which is simply baseless conjecture, it's not defined anywhere).

                          Genitals are the most intimate and private part of any human so you need to drop that poor comparison.
                          If the opinion of navel to the knees is baseless conjecture, then you probably have evidence to say that the genitals are on a different level compared to the rest of the awrah, thats what im asking.
                          MyUsernameIs...
                          It's dangerous to claim that exposing the private areas is not one and the same as exposing the hair? ......what
                          No, to claim that something is just common sense and fitrah, so it must be the truth, without evidence.

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            This thread has clearly gone off-course
                            .لا نريد زعيما يخاف البيت الإبيض
                            نريد زعيما يخاف الواحد الأحد
                            دولة الإسلامية باقية





                            Comment


                            • #29
                              Originally posted by Mufti Cheesecake View Post
                              This is something thats confusing to me when it comes to peoples perception of it, especially Muslims today.

                              Kids obviously don't have an obligation to maintain hijab and cover their awrah, since they're kids. But that doesn't mean we let them be naked everywhere until they hit puberty, we still teach them to cover their awrah, but if they don't follow it fully then its not their fault.

                              When it comes to the awrah for women, theres no distinction between the genitals and the head, they're both awrah that need to be covered in public. So why does it seem like a significant amount of Muslim parents if not most, are against the idea of getting their girls to wear the headscarf at an early age? Like when you teach them to pray and they're with you in salah, you still teach them to have hijab and modesty infront of Allah(SWT), but that after salah its ok to not where the headscarf in public?

                              I just wanna understand why that is, so that if I have a daughter in the future, inshallah, should I get her to wear it or do I wait until she's old enough? Its like we say ok heres the dress code, part of it you have to always keep, the other part you don't have to wear until you become of age and it actually matters. Maybe this is also why when girls become women its becoming harder these days for them to transition to wearing full hijab, since they're not used to it.
                              You are equating baaligh women with underage children here..the rules are different, you just can't equate the two and say why is such and such.

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                Originally posted by Mufti Cheesecake View Post
                                If the opinion of navel to the knees is baseless conjecture, then you probably have evidence to say that the genitals are on a different level compared to the rest of the awrah, thats what im asking.
                                I'll ask you some simple questions son.

                                Can a woman expose her genitals in front of anyone except her husband casually?

                                Can a woman expose her arms, hair, neck etc in front of her mahrams?

                                Regarding evidence for the awrah of a woman in front of her mahrams, there's no such text. A basic Islamic sense is enough here.
                                You think you know more than my scholar's qiyās? He was more learned than you and all other scholars combined. Yeah, the devil was the greatest scholar too and look where his qiyās of fire being better than tīn got him. Sorry.

                                You follow your scholar's qiyās, and I will follow the Qur'ān and Sunnah.

                                Comment

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