Ads by Muslim Ad Network

Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

School residential trips

Collapse
X
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • #31
    Originally posted by somayaa View Post
    My daughter is a good child, she always covers, reads quran everyday. She never lies to me and we do lots of islamic activities and take them to islamic classes so please dont just jump into judgement and say that we will amongst the idol worshippers on the day of judgement.
    On authority of Abd Allah bin Amrw: "Whoever settles in the land of polytheists, participates in their festivals and imitates them until he dies will be gathered with them on the Day of Resurrection."

    If you're having a hard time telling your 11-year old daughter that she cannot do something clearly forbidden in Islam and you also plan on sending her to public high school, then it doesn't matter how much you read Quran, pray and fast- she is going to turn out just like any other girl in the UK, except maybe wearing a Hijab.

    Those are facts, not judgments or opinions.

    Comment


    • #32
      Originally posted by AbuNajm View Post
      9

      On authority of Abd Allah bin Amrw: "Whoever settles in the land of polytheists, participates in their festivals and imitates them until he dies will be gathered with them on the Day of Resurrection."

      If you're having a hard time telling your 11-year old daughter that she cannot do something clearly forbidden in Islam and you also plan on sending her to public high school, then it doesn't matter how much you read Quran, pray and fast- she is going to turn out just like any other girl in the UK, except maybe wearing a Hijab.

      Those are facts, not judgments or opinions.
      Ok thank you I will move to my homeland soon and risk her life, her safety, her education. If I was in my homeland she would have already been forcefully married to 50 or 60 year old. The world is not just black and white as you think of it.

      Comment


      • #33
        Originally posted by AbuNajm View Post

        On authority of Abd Allah bin Amrw: "Whoever settles in the land of polytheists, participates in their festivals and imitates them until he dies will be gathered with them on the Day of Resurrection."

        If you're having a hard time telling your 11-year old daughter that she cannot do something clearly forbidden in Islam and you also plan on sending her to public high school, then it doesn't matter how much you read Quran, pray and fast- she is going to turn out just like any other girl in the UK, except maybe wearing a Hijab.

        Those are facts, not judgments or opinions.
        You look from one of those people who doesnt let thier daughter's to education but will then go around looking for female Drs if thier daughter/ wife or sister falls ill.

        Comment


        • #34
          Originally posted by somayaa View Post
          I chose to become a housewife the day my eldest was born but
          There is no point that I can homeschool my kids, I have a severly disabled child who screams day and night and you wouldnt even imagine how much care he needs. I am awake most of the night until morning and when my disabled child sleeps for a few hours then I get to sleep or eat, I dont have any support or family around me. Do you want me to neglect my disabled child in order to homeschool my other kids or you want me to rob a bank and send my kids to islamic schools?
          May Allah help you. Ameen.

          I understand better than most that the world can grind down a person's will and ability to think straight and adhere to certain standards. However, if we don't stick to what we know is right when things are difficult, what are the chances we will do so when things are easy?

          Originally posted by somayaa View Post
          I dont think you are not well educated in islamic matters either. Islam is not that harsh as you are portraying it.
          My approach is "harsh", however the advice I'm giving is based solely on your approach to me and responses to that advice.. You're right- I don't know your situation or whether any exceptions to Islamic law may apply to you.

          So, my advice, based on Islamic law, is not going to incorporate any circumstances or conditions that might make the law "lightened" for you. That is what is called a Rukhsah in Islamic law. It is not allowed for Muslims to appeal directly to the Rukhkhaas [plural of Rukhsah], or exceptions in Islamic laws. A person's situation and circumstances must be known in order to make a personalized legal ruling for them, or Fatwa.

          When it comes to legal verdicts that apply to everyone and that we should all model our behavior after, they are called Ahkaam and they don't change from person to person except in the case of a personalized Fatwa, which is based on circumstances and conditions.

          A Hukm, or a person insisting on a Hukm, can seem "harsh" to a person who has unknown individual circumstances that would grant them exceptions [Rukhkhaas].

          Originally posted by somayaa View Post
          Do you even know why I ended up in Dar ul Harb? What my background is? Do I even want to live here? Do you know what I have been through whole my life? The abuse I have suffered as a child? The poverty, the unsafety, the war? I dont want to live here even a day but I have to because of my family's safety. People like you give the message that islam is not a religion of peace at all.
          The people put to trials most after the Prophets, peace be upon them, are the righteous. We need to be grateful for our trials and constantly seek to rise to the occasion in order to demonstrate our commitment to Islam and Islamic law in order to avoid the same fate in the West as the many Hypocrites and apostates that have refuge here.

          Islam is not "a religion of peace". Whoever told you that was lying.

          And I've been through much of what you have stated above and I have had to raise a child in the middle of one of the most dangerous regions in the world for 10 years running.

          I decided a long time ago that I was not going to allow my "choices" or inabilities determine whether I or my family followed the Shari'ah of Islam.

          Many of the fears mentioned in this thread were shared by myself and my family, especially early on, however I never gave up studying the Ahkaam, legal rulings in Islam, or implementing them no matter the difficulty or sacrifice required. I've seen firsthand and for my family, how difficult things can get for a Muslim in Dar al-Harb trying to implement the legal rulings of Islam. I've also seen how Allah does make things easier after they are seemingly impossible.

          So, I'm certainly not going to change what I know to be the base rulings in Islam and what I know from experience to work, despite the great difficulty, just to make a few people online like me.

          Comment


          • #35
            Originally posted by somayaa View Post
            ...If I was in my homeland she would have already been forcefully married to 50 or 60 year old. The world is not just black and white as you think of it.
            Why would you force your daughter to do that?

            -_-

            Comment


            • #36
              Originally posted by Abu 'Abdullaah View Post

              Why would you force your daughter to do that?

              -_-
              Why would I do that?? That is why I am living in the west. The place I come from they dont listen to women, women are forced to do anything and they are all soo called religious leaders and Abu najm is suggesting that I move back to that so called islamic place.

              Comment


              • #37
                This thread is completely going off topic and hasnt really been helpful. If you cant share your experiences please dont reply at all. I am not looking for fatwas.
                Last edited by somayaa; 07-11-18, 10:03 PM.

                Comment


                • #38
                  Originally posted by somayaa View Post

                  Why would I do that?? That is why I am living in the west. The place I come from they dont listen to women, women are forced to do anything and they are all soo called religious leaders and Abu najm is suggesting that I move back to that so called islamic place.
                  Even your husband would do that?

                  Comment


                  • #39
                    Originally posted by somayaa View Post

                    I chose to become a housewife the day my eldest was born but
                    There is no point that I can homeschool my kids, I have a severly disabled child who screams day and night and you wouldnt even imagine how much care he needs. I am awake most of the night until morning and when my disabled child sleeps for a few hours them I get to sleep or eat, I dont have any support or family around me. Do you want me to neglect my disabled child in order to homeschool my other kids or you want me to rob a bank and send my kids to islamic schools?
                    I dont think you are well educated in islamic matters either. Islam is not that harsh as you are portraying it. Do you even know why I ended up in Dar ul Harb? What my background is? Do I even to live here? Do you know what I have been through whole myself? The abuse I have suffered as a child? The poverty, the unsafety, the war? I dont want to live here even a day but I have to because of my family's safety. People like you give the message that islam is not a religion of peace at all.
                    If I were you, I would ignore AbuNajm's posts here. His condescending attitude ruins whatever good he tried to convey. His responses also seem to downplay your present situation. For me personally, anyone who depends on online fatawa to get a point across doesn't really know much except for making clear only their opinion matters/ only they are right.

                    That said, if you can take any good from his posts once you have calmed down, sis, then do that but if you'd rather not have him respond to you then stop responding to his posts.

                    Originally posted by somayaa View Post
                    If I really wanted her to go then I wouldnt ask about it here, I dont care what others think, all I wanted to see if the risks of going to trips outweigh the affects it will have on her mentally. The only reason if I let her go will be because as I said it is mentally affecting her. She is thinking about it day and night and sometimes asks me why am I the only one to not participate in any activities, as I said I never let her to friends birthday parties, thier house or outside to play. I dont want her to grow up thinking islam is against fun but I want her to know that there is halal/haram fun. I was looking for peoples experiences not for them to judge me. I will think twice in the future before I post in this forum.
                    If I were you, I would sit my daughter down and try to explain to her my fears and concerns. A mother knows their child best, random people online would not.

                    By the sound of it, your daughter seems to be a good child but she still has much learning to do. I am not quite sure what to advice you since I have never been to overnight school trips myself but I do think it'd be better if your daughter sits this one out, take her out instead to an all girls' trip the same day if possible- just you and her? Right now, if it was my daughter wanting to go on a trip like that, I think I would have a hard time letting her go.
                    sigpic

                    Comment


                    • #40
                      Originally posted by somayaa View Post
                      My daughter is a good child, she always covers, reads quran everyday. She never lies to me and we do lots of islamic activities and take them to islamic classes so please dont just jump into judgement and say that we will amongst the idol worshippers on the day of judgement.
                      Assalamu alaykum

                      I fully understand the tension you're facing with not wanting your daughter to resent Islam due it's restrictions. This is something every parent has to deal with, and living in the West certainly doesn't help.

                      Young girls tend to mature faster and I believe you can reason with your daughter. But as others have mentioned, it's important to replace this Haram trip, or any Haram activity for that matter, with something Halal and 'equally' enjoyable. I'm really not sure what to suggest for your daughter, but I'm sure you and your husband can muster some things up.

                      You really need to be stern and teach her this very important life lesson; who she is; what she believes in; why she believes in it; and what she can and cannot do.

                      Islam is the truth; she should know and believe in this wholeheartedly, inshaAllah.
                      Last edited by AmantuBillahi; 07-11-18, 08:15 PM.

                      Comment


                      • #41
                        I was asking for people to share thier stories and experiences about these trips so it help me make my decision but I ended up getting so many fatwas instead.

                        Comment


                        • #42
                          Originally posted by somayaa View Post
                          I was asking for people to share thier stories and experiences about these trips so it help me make my decision but I ended up getting so many fatwas instead.
                          Hi OP

                          If it helps, I have lots of friends who are teachers and regularly take children away on school trips either at home or abroad. Their main concern is always ensuring the kids are safe and looked after, because the fall out if they are not is huge. They are also very used to lots of parents having the same concerns as you - first trip away from home, how the trip will be organised, eating and sleeping arrangements etc. It may be worth your while having a chat with your daughters teacher or one of the trip organisers to discuss any concerns you have and see if they can put your mind at rest.

                          From what you have said, you're not worried about her behaviour as your daughter is a sensible girl, but rather the circumstances and the fact she will be away for the first time, especially since you have not yet let her go to friends houses or stay over. If you do decide to let her go, this could be a good opportunity for you to exercise your trust in her in an environment where the teachers will have done numerous risk assessments and will be keeping things under control.

                          I went on a number of school trips away in the UK and abroad in both my primary school and secondary school. The teachers were always doing head counts to ensure all pupils were accounted for, very clear instructions on where to go/what time, organised groups and activities as well as bedroom checks and enforced 'lights out' time.

                          Comment


                          • #43
                            Originally posted by Mintchocchip View Post


                            As a child I had to always cover my legs in school meaning in primary school had to wear trousers as part of the uniform while majority girls wore skirts/dresses with socks and most of their legs were bare. I wanted to dress like them but was not allowed as I was told muslims have to cover up. My parents were not even the "strict" type when it came to religion. I learnt not to be jealous of my peers because you realise they are not muslim.

                            Are you serious? What school is going to allow your child to take a mobile phone so a parent can check up on them a couple of times a day? Again speaking from what actually happens is the children are not even allowed to call home. Parents nowadays get a text saying the children arrived safely and any problems get in touch with the school. They do not even give phone numbers of the place where the kids stay.

                            So what if other muslim girls are going if they all do unislamic stuff thats no justification for OPs daughter to copy them. It's like saying other muslim girls don't wear hijab so why should she.

                            Are you sure you not the OP?

                            Yes there are boundaries in Islam, whilst you want your child to understand they are different, you don’t want them to feel alienated. Your experience does not dictate what everyone else’s should be like. If you hit puberty at an earlier age you will have to get used to dressing more modestly earlier despite your mindset still being in that of a child. This does not mean the OP’s child has reached that point yet.

                            As a 10 year old, she will not be thinking of breaking rules, she will just be thrilled she’s been allowed to go and spend time with her friends. At some point, children do need to be given some freedom, some opportunities to make decisions themselves.

                            In this age where majority of school kids own a phone, it’s not unthinkable to assume they would be allowed to bring phones on their trip with them. Even if not, she can still take one for safety.

                            You said you accepted the differences between you and your friends because you “realised they were not Muslim,” however, you then said “so what if the other Muslim girls are going.” This is a contradiction in itself, if she is not like the other non-Muslims, and she is not like the other Muslims, then who can she relate to?

                            Going on a school trip is not unislamic, the OP’s worry here is safety. As Muslims, we tend to be more protective and cautious when it comes to our children. This trip is an educational school trip with her friends, aside from safety concerns, I see no major problems with her daughter going. The purpose of the trip is not immoral or wrong, it is offered as part of her education. The staff accompanying are all women, very low chances of anything to put her daughter in sexual danger and her class is all girls as well.

                            Comment


                            • #44
                              Originally posted by AbuNajm View Post

                              Do you realize you're promoting something forbidden in Islam?



                              The objective of religion is to provide a set of rules and standards for speaking and acting which bring the most benefit for the individual and society. What goes against those objectives is considered wrong and evil and thus falls under "restriction". It is impossible for Islamic law to "restrict" a true benefit for society, though the law may restrict an individual's "opportunities" for the benefit of society.

                              These matters are not subjective. What you consider an "opportunity" may in fact be sinful and what I consider sinful may in fact be a good "opportunity". The only way to measure these matters appropriately is by means of the Shari'ah as conveyed by the scholars of Islam.

                              The Shari'ah does not change simply because of someone's regrets or resentments.



                              Polytheists, whether male or female, relatives or strangers, are not allowed to be given custody of a minor Muslim or female adult Muslim for any length of time or for the purpose of travel. It's a question of safety as well as standards. Polytheists do not have the same standards of what is "good" and "evil", in fact, their standards are much lower than that of Muslims. They will allow a Muslim child to eat whatever they wish and participate in all sorts of activities that are considered forbidden in Islam.

                              There are many things that an 11-year old Muslim girl could be exposed to, participate in, and consume on this 2-day trip that are considered forbidden in Islam, but they are perfectly "good" according to polytheists.



                              If you're a parent yourself, then I worried about your children. However, based on how you speak about this matter, it doesn't seem like you are a parent.

                              Many 11-year olds are not capable yet of standing up for their beliefs, not to mention they are completely unaware of what is forbidden or not.

                              Being a Muslim in a Catholic school, even for a person teaching class, is isolating in effect and brings all sorts of "risks" to a Muslim's religion.



                              And look how you turned out, right? Based on the advice you're giving, looks like your parents made the same major mistake with you as this sister is making with her child.
                              With all due respect, you have no standing to judge me as a Muslim. It is sanctimonious answers like these that paint the image of Islam being intolerant. I have no obligation to justify my choices to you nor will I take being called a mistake. Please keep your holier-than-thou comments to yourself next time.

                              It is these experiences as a child living in the West that will potentially turn them away from Islam, I know someone who was never allowed to go on residential trips as a child, she found it too stifling and now she no longer prays nor wears a hijab. You must be careful of the inpression Islam leaves on your child whilst they are growing up for it will stay with them throughout their adulthood.

                              That is not to say you should bend the rules for your child, but since they are still young, you should take a more gentle approach.

                              Sharia will not change, but your child may choose not follow it anymore if you are too overbearing and raise them with an iron fist.

                              I don’t know what immoral things you think 10 year olds do, but I assure you all a 10 year old is thinking of is wanting to spend time with and have fun with her friends. The purpose of the trip is not morally warped or wrong, it is for educational purposes. It is supervised by an all-female team so the chance of sexual danger for her daughter is very low.

                              Any dietary requirements, (eg. halal only food/vegetarian) will be taken in account and covered by the school, the only inappropriate activity for them to do on a school trip is perhaps swimming, but even then, she is the presence of all females.

                              Catholics are not polytheists, they are one of the Abrahamic religions, like Islam, and there are many common factors between the 2 religions. They are safer than being in a non-religious public school as there is a sense of morality and ethics being put into each decision. Albeit, not as strict as Islam, but there won’t be any situations in which Islam takes a majorly different stance to Christianity, she will be fine under the protection of Catholic teachers.

                              Comment


                              • #45
                                Originally posted by vivi View Post

                                With all due respect, you have no standing to judge me as a Muslim. It is sanctimonious answers like these that paint the image of Islam being intolerant. I have no obligation to justify my choices to you nor will I take being called a mistake. Please keep your holier-than-thou comments to yourself next time.

                                It is these experiences as a child living in the West that will potentially turn them away from Islam, I know someone who was never allowed to go on residential trips as a child, she found it too stifling and now she no longer prays nor wears a hijab. You must be careful of the inpression Islam leaves on your child whilst they are growing up for it will stay with them throughout their adulthood.

                                That is not to say you should bend the rules for your child, but since they are still young, you should take a more gentle approach.

                                Sharia will not change, but your child may choose not follow it anymore if you are too overbearing and raise them with an iron fist.

                                I don’t know what immoral things you think 10 year olds do, but I assure you all a 10 year old is thinking of is wanting to spend time with and have fun with her friends. The purpose of the trip is not morally warped or wrong, it is for educational purposes. It is supervised by an all-female team so the chance of sexual danger for her daughter is very low.

                                Any dietary requirements, (eg. halal only food/vegetarian) will be taken in account and covered by the school, the only inappropriate activity for them to do on a school trip is perhaps swimming, but even then, she is the presence of all females.

                                Catholics are not polytheists, they are one of the Abrahamic religions, like Islam, and there are many common factors between the 2 religions. They are safer than being in a non-religious public school as there is a sense of morality and ethics being put into each decision. Albeit, not as strict as Islam, but there won’t be any situations in which Islam takes a majorly different stance to Christianity, she will be fine under the protection of Catholic teachers.
                                Exactly the kind of answer I wanted to write but my English is not as good as yours. Although I dont want to let my child go on the trip but I think she might feel alienated. As you said. "It is these experiences as a child living in the West that will potentially turn them away from Islam, I know someone who was never allowed to go on residential trips as a child, she found it too stifling and now she no longer prays nor wears a hijab. You must be careful of the inpression Islam leaves on your child whilst they are growing up for it will stay with them throughout their adulthood.

                                That is not to say you should bend the rules for your child, but since they are still young, you should take a more gentle approach.

                                Sharia will not change, but your child may choose not follow it anymore if you are too overbearing and raise them with an iron fist."
                                Last edited by somayaa; 15-11-18, 02:35 PM.

                                Comment

                                Working...
                                X