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Raising pious children that arn't naive

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  • Raising pious children that arn't naive

    Assalamu alaykum wa rahmatullahi wa barakatu

    I'm curious as to how to one can raise pious Muslim children with excellent social skills, knowledge of the opposite gender, and all-around wisdom, without them being involved in anything haram in order for them to attain such knowledge and skillsets.

    There's a tradition from Umar ibn al-Khattab(ra) that I remember hearing in Yasir Qadhi's(H) lecture series, where he said, and I'm paraphrasing, "The Muslim who experienced Jahiliyyah is more useful than he who hasn't."

    It's logical aswell. Someone who hasn't experienced the Haraam doesn't have the wisdom that the other has accumulated through his/her experience.


    Two questions:

    1) How can we raise pious, masjid attending children that arn't naive of the opposite gender or the real world? Is it simply left for their fathers and mothers to teach them or is there another way?

    2) Why is it that Muslim sisters seem to be more "aware" than the brothers? Is my experience merely subjective or does everyone else notice it aswell?

    Thank you.

    Last edited by AmantuBillahi; 13-10-18, 06:33 PM. Reason: Spacing

  • #2
    Originally posted by AmantuBillahi View Post
    Assalamu alaykum wa rahmatullahi wa barakatu

    There's a tradition from Umar ibn al-Khattab(ra) that I remember hearing in Yasir Qadhi's(H) lecture series, where he said, and I'm paraphrasing, "The Muslim who experienced Jahiliyyah is more useful than he who hasn't."
    Wa alaykum assalam wa rahmatullahi wa barakaatuh

    Hmm are you sure about that?
    رَّبِّ ارْحَمْهُمَا كَمَا رَبَّيَانِي صَغِيرًا

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    • #3
      Originally posted by Umm Uthmaan View Post

      Wa alaykum assalam wa rahmatullahi wa barakaatuh

      Hmm are you sure about that?
      I just searched it up online, perhaps I confused the text with it's interpretation:

      "Ibn Taymiyyah reported: Umar ibn Al-Khattab, may Allah be pleased with him, said, "Verily, the foundations of Islam will undone one by one if there arises in Islam people who have never known ignorance."

      https://abuaminaelias.com/dailyhadit...-of-ignorance/

      I'll try to find YQ's video when I'm on a Wifi inshaAllah just to be 100% sure.

      Allah knows best.

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      • #4
        Originally posted by AmantuBillahi View Post

        I just searched it up online, perhaps I confused the text with it's interpretation:

        "Ibn Taymiyyah reported: Umar ibn Al-Khattab, may Allah be pleased with him, said, "Verily, the foundations of Islam will undone one by one if there arises in Islam people who have never known ignorance."

        https://abuaminaelias.com/dailyhadit...-of-ignorance/

        I'll try to find YQ's video when I'm on a Wifi inshaAllah just to be 100% sure.

        Allah knows best.
        YQ?

        I hope you dont mean Yasir Qadhi the deviant,
        http://www.ilovepalestine.com/campai...imesinGaza.gif

        "It does not befit the lion to answer the dogs."

        – Imam al-Shafi’i (Rahimahullah)

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        • #5
          Originally posted by AmantuBillahi View Post
          .It's logical aswell. Someone who hasn't experienced the Haraam doesn't have the wisdom that the other has accumulated through his/her experience.
          What wisdom akhi?

          Originally posted by AmantuBillahi View Post
          2) Why is it that Muslim sisters seem to be more "aware" than the brothers? Is my experience merely subjective or does everyone else notice it aswell?
          More aware of what?

          Lol sorry I know I'm asking a lot of questions. It's not to be annoying, I just want to understand what u mean since it's not clear to me..
          رَّبِّ ارْحَمْهُمَا كَمَا رَبَّيَانِي صَغِيرًا

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          • #6
            وَلَمَّا بَلَغَ أَشُدَّهُ آتَيْنَاهُ حُكْمًا وَعِلْمًا ۚ وَكَذَٰلِكَ نَجْزِي الْمُحْسِنِينَ

            And when he (Yusuf) reached the prime of his age, We gave him wisdom and knowledge, and this is how We reward those who are good in their deeds.

            -Sura Yusuf, Ayah 22



            ​وَلَمَّا بَلَغَ أَشُدَّهُ وَاسْتَوَىٰ آتَيْنَاهُ حُكْمًا وَعِلْمًا ۚ وَكَذَٰلِكَ نَجْزِي الْمُحْسِنِينَ

            When he (Moses) reached full maturity and manhood, We gave him wisdom and knowledge: this is how We reward those who do good.

            -Sura Al-Qasas, Ayah 14​​​​​​



            Wa'alaykumussalam warahmatullah.
            I can understand where you're coming from but wouldn't it go against the above in Qur'an? Hukm, and 'Ilm, given to the Muhsinoon.

            Personally, I believe being in the field of da'wah is one of things which can help a person gain what's mentioned in the OP (excellent social skills and all-round wisdom.)

            InshaaAllah, if we're naive in certain matters we'll learn as we go along from mistakes and experience, since part of our Deen is to not repeatedly make the same mistakes. Ultimately, someone who is sincere (in the comprehensive sense) you would expect Allah Ta'aalaa to guide, and shape and take care of that person.

            If you're talking about understanding between male/female, unless they have been messing around they'll be starting from a similar place, would they not?
            ​​​​​​
            (Maybe I've missed what exactly you're alluding to, though. Allahu a'lam.)
            Last edited by Fakhri; 13-10-18, 10:46 PM.
            LAA ILAAHA ILLALLAH
            -------------------------------
            "And if you would count the graces of God, never could you be able to count them. Truly, God is Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful." (Qur'aan 16:18)
            NOTE: Please kindly do NOT rep my posts. (Jazaa'akumullah).

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            • #7
              Originally posted by Saif-Uddin View Post

              YQ?

              I hope you dont mean Yasir Qadhi the deviant,
              Off-topic.

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              • #8
                Originally posted by Umm Uthmaan View Post
                What wisdom akhi?
                The greatest form of wisdom is that which is acquired through experience. Without experiencing intimacy, relationships, mixing with the Kuffar and the rest of the worldly pleasures, one is only left with an idea of what these things are, which usually ends up with the individual making a straw-man out of everything.

                I'm not justifying the Haraam, but the reality is, the one who has experienced is equipped with supplementary knowledge to the one that has not experienced. Just like the one who is married is aware and more mature than the one whose unmarried.

                Hence, the question is, how can we raise pious Muslim children who are dedicated to Hifdh and the Masjid, without depriving them from the knowledge and wisdom of the 'real world'?

                I think this website is excellent in a sense, because it gives brothers and sisters a chance to speak with each other, when otherwise they may never have done so.

                Originally posted by Umm Uthmaan View Post

                More aware of what?
                I feel that Muslim women are more mature and logical than Muslim men. This is not to be confused with religious knowledge though; Muslim men are far more knowledgable than Muslim women. However, Muslim women are not as naive as the brothers are. Do you not think the same? If not, explain why.
                Last edited by AmantuBillahi; 13-10-18, 11:06 PM. Reason: typos

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by Fakhri View Post
                  Personally, I believe being in the field of da'wah is one of things which can help a person gain what's mentioned in the OP (excellent social skills and all-round wisdom.)
                  This is a great suggestion. Yes, we need to raise our children with the intentions of making them Du'at. Not Jamat at-Tabligh door to door Da'wah, but actual Da'wah to non-Muslim men and women. Of course, this should be done with the appropriate precautions i.e. with knowledge and in a Halal setting.

                  Originally posted by Fakhri View Post
                  If you're talking about understanding between male/female, unless they have been messing around they'll be starting from a similar place, would they not?
                  Perhaps Muslim parents have to do a better job teaching their children these things? My inquiry is heavily based on what I see in the Masajid. The kids who come from the most religious families are usually the ones who are the most out of touch with reality. Sure, they may have memorized much of the Qu'ran, however, their understanding of life is reflective of the bubble they're kept in.

                  Free mixing and engaging in Haram is not the solution, but it can't be that there is no solution. Being religious doesn't justify us being naive. And why is it that the brothers are more naive than the sisters? What are they doing that we're not doing?
                  Last edited by AmantuBillahi; 13-10-18, 11:34 PM. Reason: Typo

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                  • #10
                    .
                    رَّبِّ ارْحَمْهُمَا كَمَا رَبَّيَانِي صَغِيرًا

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                    • #11
                      Having spent some time with Jama'a Tabligh in the past, even though it's targeted at Muslims, imho, spending enough time in it will equip a person with a lot of tools and expose them to a lot situations and different kinds of people.

                      Many of the brothers who have spent a lot of time with them are also the kind of brothers who make good callers to the deen when it comes to non-muslims - if they choose to do that, and some do, just not while in 'khurooj'. The one thing that might be lacking is the depth of technical knowledge, but naturally these brothers develop their character and deal with people with wisdom gained from years of giving da'wah to different types of people.

                      ​​​​​​They're also people from all different backgrounds academic and occupation wise.

                      While they might not be scholars of comparitive religion (some might), sometimes we over-complicate matters and the simpler arguments and the physical embodiment of the teachings in a person, the purity of intention, etc are what make the biggest impact by the permission of Allah Ta'aalaa.

                      The academic, scholarly du'aat are of course essential, but many, if not the majority of people don't need the detailed philosophical arguments to accept the truth so there's a lot of worth of brothers like those on the Tablighi jama'ah imho.

                      The excellent thing about those kinds of brothers who have spent years and years of their life working on themselves (on implementing knowledge even if it may be limited) with the kind of focused effort they do, is that it shows, and a person who comes into contact with such a person is left with a strong impression on them.

                      (Ps. One of the the things stressed by Jama' Tabligh from my time with them was the idea of excelling academically also, so they do encourage acquiring knowledge of all kinds in general. We need to remember though that it's a movement for the masses so we'll have all kinds of brothers there, age, experience, level of practice, knowledge, so a person might easily find their experiences of them underwhelming unless it's for a longer period of time.)

                      Sorry, this whole post is pretty much a defence of JT /TJ and is drifting from the topic, but I felt the need to write that because in my own experience I found people there who have those qualities you've mentioned, some very young in age, and it's always stuck with me how.
                      Last edited by Fakhri; 13-10-18, 11:41 PM.
                      LAA ILAAHA ILLALLAH
                      -------------------------------
                      "And if you would count the graces of God, never could you be able to count them. Truly, God is Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful." (Qur'aan 16:18)
                      NOTE: Please kindly do NOT rep my posts. (Jazaa'akumullah).

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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by AmantuBillahi View Post

                        Off-topic.
                        Well if your learning Islam from a deviant, and bringing him up,

                        You need to be careful who you take your deen from.
                        http://www.ilovepalestine.com/campai...imesinGaza.gif

                        "It does not befit the lion to answer the dogs."

                        – Imam al-Shafi’i (Rahimahullah)

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Fakhri View Post
                          Sorry, this whole post is pretty much a defence of JT /TJ and is drifting from the topic
                          That's fine. I don't entirely disagree with you and maybe it's my fault for saying "Not Jamat at-Tabligh". What I was intending to say was not to restrict it to Jamat at-Tabligh.

                          Although there is benefit in that experience, the reality is, the true benefit comes from giving Da'wah to non-Muslims. You need to break the bubble of straw-man argumentation and false perceptions of reality. Giving Da'wah to Muslims by inviting them to the Masjid doesn't do the trick. If your Da'wah doesn't work on non-Muslims then it is unsophisticated and naive, which is part of the premise of this thread.

                          May Allah accept all our efforts, purify our intentions and guide us all--ameen.

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                          • #14
                            There are many ways to gain wisdom without having undergone that process of being a former sinner.

                            Its interesting that you used the word 'naive'. People assume I am, but I just like to watch and observe people, and that gives me some wisdom and insight about what society truly is and stands for.

                            Like, you don't have to participate in sin, but you can view it from the distance (represented by your iman) and avoid bad actions and being deceived by it, that way.
                            وَاقْصِدْ فِي مَشْيِكَ وَاغْضُضْ مِن صَوْتِكَ ۚ إِنَّ أَنكَرَ الْأَصْوَاتِ لَصَوْتُ الْحَمِيرِ - 31:19

                            And be moderate in your pace and lower your voice; indeed, the most disagreeable of sounds is the voice of donkeys."


                            أَلَمْ تَرَوْا أَنَّ اللَّهَ سَخَّرَ لَكُم مَّا فِي السَّمَاوَاتِ وَمَا فِي الْأَرْضِ وَأَسْبَغَ عَلَيْكُمْ نِعَمَهُ ظَاهِرَةً وَبَاطِنَةً ۗ وَمِنَ النَّاسِ مَن يُجَادِلُ فِي اللَّهِ بِغَيْرِ عِلْمٍ وَلَا هُدًى وَلَا كِتَابٍ مُّنِيرٍ - 31:20

                            Do you not see that Allah has made subject to you whatever is in the heavens and whatever is in the earth and amply bestowed upon you His favors, [both] apparent and unapparent? But of the people is he who disputes about Allah without knowledge or guidance or an enlightening Book [from Him].


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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by AmantuBillahi View Post

                              That's fine. I don't entirely disagree with you and maybe it's my fault for saying "Not Jamat at-Tabligh". What I was intending to say was not to restrict it to Jamat at-Tabligh.

                              Although there is benefit in that experience, the reality is, the true benefit comes from giving Da'wah to non-Muslims. You need to break the bubble of straw-man argumentation and false perceptions of reality. Giving Da'wah to Muslims by inviting them to the Masjid doesn't do the trick. If your Da'wah doesn't work on non-Muslims then it is unsophisticated and naive, which is part of the premise of this thread.

                              May Allah accept all our efforts, purify our intentions and guide us all--ameen.
                              Have you spent time with them, brother, I'm curious to know?

                              -------------
                              Quite a few points and questions come to mind reading your posts, br Amantubillah... Will try to post here again later, inshaaAllah. (Ameen)
                              ​​​​

                              ​​​​​​
                              Last edited by Fakhri; 14-10-18, 07:15 AM.
                              LAA ILAAHA ILLALLAH
                              -------------------------------
                              "And if you would count the graces of God, never could you be able to count them. Truly, God is Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful." (Qur'aan 16:18)
                              NOTE: Please kindly do NOT rep my posts. (Jazaa'akumullah).

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