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BBC & Reuters: Pakistan's Gay 'less inhibited than West'

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  • BBC & Reuters: Pakistan's Gay 'less inhibited than West'

    Gay Pakistan - 'less inhibited than West'

    Throughout South Asia, homosexuality has been a taboo subject. But there are signs in some areas that gay people are now becoming more open in their behaviour. In this column a gay man in Pakistan talks about the advantages of being gay there compared to the West. He prefers to remain anonymous.

    It is all too common to hear examples of the repression of sexuality and oppression of sexual minorities in South Asia.

    Open displays of straight and gay sexuality are taboo in Pakistan

    But the problem with sweeping generalisations about sexuality, or anything else for that matter, is the exceptions.

    I am one such exception - a gay man who grew up in Pakistan, became aware of his sexuality while studying in the US, had most of his early experiences of love and sex there, and yet decided to come back home to Pakistan.

    It will surprise many when I say that I actually feel more comfortable about myself while living here than I was in the West.

    It was not always so of course. Before my return, I felt quite aggrieved when my straight brother downplayed my apprehensions about being gay in Pakistan.



    I cannot remember a single occasion in almost 10 years that I have felt threatened with regards to my sexuality in Pakistan



    It really was not a problem, he suggested. How insensitive and naive of him, I thought.

    My brother has won the point since though. While I maintain discretion in many respects, I have come out to most of my family, with their loving support.

    I have also come out to all my friends, and rarely meet anyone aggressively hostile to gay individuals.

    I have lived with a lover independently without anyone raising an eyebrow.

    I have attended gay parties more uninhibited than any I have seen in the West.

    'Differently configured'

    In fact, I cannot remember a single occasion in almost 10 years that I have felt threatened with regards to my sexuality in Pakistan.

    An entirely unrepresentative experience to be sure, as far as the experience of a majority of Pakistanis is concerned.

    But there is no representative sample that I can think of.

    Pakistan has 'conservative religious and cultural attitudes'

    Sexuality itself is so much more differently configured in Pakistan than in the West - which is where the language of the sexuality debate comes from.

    This is especially true in terms of people's perceptions of their identity and behaviour, in terms of class, with regards to family and religious obligations.

    I would not for a moment suggest that it is easy being gay in Pakistan.

    Homosexual acts are illegal, and conservative religious and cultural attitudes mean many gay people are afraid to openly acknowledge their sexuality.

    They face ostracism by their families if they do. But in a sense the American military's approach of "don't ask, don't tell" is applied throughout this society.

    'Taboo matter'

    True, there is a fine line between discretion and suffocating silence. But being straight is not that much easier, and is in fact sometimes more difficult when it comes to physical relationships.

    What is perhaps closer to the truth is that overt expression of sexuality itself - both gay and straight - is a taboo matter in Pakistani society.

    But whereas heterosexual courting and coupling is all too obvious, gay socialising can take place without attracting as much attention - with brazen abandon in a society where many forms of overt physical and emotional intimacy between members of the same gender are tolerated and even admired.

    The opposite holds true for such public expression between members of the opposite sex.

    Just as everywhere else, however, things are changing, driven by the exposure to information via technology.

    The internet, satellite television and films all combine to give a new generation of gay men and women context to their emotions, a sense of identity, an outlet for expression and perhaps most importantly, the ability to communicate with each other.

    No wonder, then, that I met my boyfriend on the internet.
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  • #2
    Comments - BBC

    Your comments:

    Who are we to judge? And when did sexual orientation became one of the five pillars of Islam?
    Kashif Iqbal, Norway

    After spending a couple of years in the USA (an open society), I believe that homosexuality can never be defended. The Lord has made men for women and women for men.
    Samee, Pakistan

    I dare him to come out in public and announce himself as gay. He is accepted in his social class because the elite don't mingle with the commoners.
    Waqas Khan, USA

    I think this guy is kidding himself. I don't believe many people in Pakistan are comfortable knowing a gay person. Any normal family would have disowned him immediately. I was born and brought up in the UK and there are thousands of Pakistanis where I stay. Without a doubt I am certain nobody would accept a gay person into Pakistani society here so how can it ever be acceptable in a conservative Muslim nation such as Pakistan? Also as homosexuality is forbidden in Islam how can this guy still call himself a Muslim?
    Tariq, UK

    To say that gay socialising is easier in Pakistan because physical intimacy between men is not questioned the way it is in the West, is living in a fool's paradise. If this person seriously believes that close contact among men equals acceptance of homosexuals then he is fooling himself. And he knows this, because if he felt homosexuality is acceptable, he would come out with it to more people, not just to his "liberal" friends and family. Acceptability of homosexuals may be on the rise, but it is because people feel socially pressured to do so, just like some people in the West are pressured to be tolerant towards minorities.
    Aamir, UK

    There is no problem in being gay as far as I am concerned but there is some thing wrong in a Muslim being gay. It is not allowed in Islam and is surely against the laws of nature; it is one of the signs of the end of the world. I don't think you remain a Muslim if you indulge in anything like that. As much as you have right to choose, I would never appreciate anything like this.
    Manz, UK

    People keep saying that homosexuality is a sin or not allowed in Islam. But can someone post the actual passages where it explicitly forbids it? Manz thinks it is a sign of the end of the world. However homosexuality has been going on since time began. I am gay and I am a Muslim. Why can't I be both? I would never choose to be this way, why would anyone? I have stopped asking Allah why he made me this way, because I have accepted that I am his creation, and not the spawn of the devil!

    It would be nice if other Pakistanis also realised that fact, instead of hiding their intolerance, fear, hatred, and general nastiness behind the mask of religion. My friend, who like me was born in the UK but of Pakistani heritage, had a mixed experience of coming out to his family, it was his family in the countryside in Pakistan that were fine with it, though never talk about it. But the self-righteous middle class family in the city, along with the family here weren't too keen to say the least.
    Ahmed, UK

    It's surprising to hear of family and friends to be accepting of this person's sexual preference. Homosexuality is a sin in all the three major faiths (Judaism, Christianity and Islam). It's no secret that Pakistan has its share of gays and lesbians but any act to look for acceptance will be disastrous, since Quranic Laws cannot be changed for a few people.
    KM Sheikh, USA

    I could go on and say that Homosexuality is forbidden in Islam, but that would probably kill this dialogue. I do not support or condone homosexuality, but at the same time I feel that God is going to be the final judge. I think this guy's experiences are a lot different from what an average Pakistani's experiences would be. The average Pakistani is the one living in a village, working day and night, maybe even half-educated.

    Not someone whose family is open and welcoming enough to accept their son coming out as gay. Sounds more like a privileged family with a lot of money to send their sons to the US for studies. Maybe religion does not have any place in their hearts or homes, and that's why he's feeling accepted. It's his social circle specifically, not the country.
    Ali, USA

    In conservative Islamic societies, where a large number of women observe "Pardha" (or veil in front of males who are not immediate family), homosexuality is historically prevalent; but it is never flaunted, as we see in western societies. Late Molly Kaye's (MM Kaye) novel Far Pavilions quotes an Afghan song:
    There is a boy, across the river
    With his bottom like a peach
    But alas, I can't swim.

    Suren Sukhtankar, USA

    I am straight but not narrow. I agree mostly that the West is obsessed with people's sexuality while most people in the East, sex is private, very private. It is not anybody's business. I remember when I was in school in US, in the land of the free, what I wore, how I spoke, where I touched others and when but then I was immediately scrutinised by people around me seeking to know my sexuality. Who the heck cared, I thought. In that sense, the land of the free and individual rights, has very little of it in the West.
    Kalai, Malaysia

    More power to him. Gay people are born like that, no-one chooses to be gay or become gay. I believe that gay people need our support. It was nice to read that in Pakistan gay people can live a good life too.
    Farva Khan, Islamabad, Pakistan

    This guy is living in a fantasy world. Being gay in Pakistan... wow, he had the courage to tell his family and somehow they supported him (I am not sure if the are followers of any religion or not, but it's forbidden in Islam, just as it is in Christianity, just as it is in Judaism).

    I am sure he is the subject of jokes to all that know about his sexual orientation, this not being my personal view but a lifelong experience of living in Pakistan. Homosexuality is a taboo in Pakistan; it's looked down upon to the extent to docile boycott of the gay person. Nothing is changing in Pakistan in this regard; do not take this article as a guideline for the Pakistani's society's take on homosexuality.

    This person, and the editor for that matter, has serious lack of information in this regard. Pakistan is not a small country and most of the population is conservative. I really cannot think of any city in Pakistan (other than a few corners of the liberal Islamabad) where this guy can announce his homosexuality.
    Saad, Pakistan

    Men loving particularly younger men is pretty common in most part of Pakistan. Maybe it is due to Muslim belief that God has promised to those who will earn to go to heaven will have not only "Hoors" (virgin women) but a choice for what it is called "Ghilmans" (young beautiful boys).
    Alex Ijaz, USA

    An important factor that our gay friend forgot to highlight was his social class. Similar to the western world, it is becoming quite fashionable for the eastern elite to display an open acceptance and patronage for the gay. And, the reason why the author finds "gay socialising" easier in Pakistan is because half the time people don't know its happening. It gets camouflaged between the Punjabi hugs that you see men giving on road sides and the happy-go-lucky hand-in-hand swinging of two best friends. Ignorance is not acceptance. And ours is an extremely intolerant society. Yet, I must add, every human being has a right to life and freedom of living. Let's leave moral judgements to Divinity!
    Qizilbash, Pakistan
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    • #3
      PAKISTAN: Focus on gay rights
      Reuters

      LAHORE, 10 May (IRIN) - Sitting on a bench in the shade of the cool palms of Lahore's Lawrence Gardens, Tariq thought carefully over what to say next. For years he had kept his sexuality a secret, knowing all too well the risk of revealing himself as gay.

      "My life is a lie and I know it," the 24-year-old fine arts student told IRIN. "But this is the reality of Pakistan and this is the reality I have to live."

      For thousands of gay people in Pakistan today, that reality is repeated again and again. The idea of 'coming out' has never been an option for him, Tariq stressed. Like most people interviewed by IRIN, he declined to use his real name. Part of the 'lie' is living up to family and societal norms, with Tariq himself conceding he has recently agreed to a marriage arranged by his family.

      LIVING WITH DENIAL

      With denial as their constant companion, gay Pakistanis live in constant fear of being 'outed' in this staunchly conservative society which is largely ignorant and intolerant of sexual minorities. The vast majority of gay people just do what is expected of them and remain quietly in the shadows, a way of life common throughout this South Asian nation of 140 million. To act in any way effeminately is a sign of weakness and a blemish on one's own masculinity in this most 'macho' of societies. To be gay is to be deviant, an aberration against God's will which gay men in Pakistan go to great lengths to disguise.

      Gay men living in the larger cities such as Lahore, Karachi or the capital, Islamabad, fare slightly better in the mildly more tolerant atmosphere of urban areas. Here they enjoy higher levels of education and many hold well paid professional jobs. Those living in impoverished rural areas remain closeted together fearing the extreme conservatism of their villages.

      "I live in two worlds," Umjad, a 28-year-year old marketing executive for a major multi-national, told IRIN at a friend's upscale apartment in Karachi's Clifton Beach area. "Sometimes I feel like a Hollywood actor. I'm always trying to balance both lives." In an effort to do just that, each week Umjad and his friends gather informally at a friend's house in what undoubtedly is their only chance to be themselves.

      "Sure it's difficult. You can't be openly gay if you want to be accepted or if you want to have a good job," Itfan, Umjad's 42-year-old friend remarked candidly, his friends nodding with approval. "But there is a greater sense of solidarity amongst gay people in Pakistan now than ever before." Though low by Western standards, part of this solidarity came with the evolution of the internet which revolutionised opportunities for gay Pakistanis to meet each other and discuss issues impacting them.

      "I used to feel so alone. Now I know there are lots of people like me," Zubair, a slender 24-year-old added.

      "It changed my life," another quipped.

      HOMOSEXUALITY AND ISLAM

      Yet for most gay people in Pakistan, having to wrestle with one's own sexuality and being constantly concerned about being discovered, life remains a constant battle. Can you be true to yourself, while adhering to the strict Islamic morals the country prides itself on?

      "The issue of 'homosexuality' is sensitive and is not publicly discussed but there is, at the same time, a level of acceptance amongst men," Hina Jilani, a leading human rights activist and lawyer, told IRIN in Lahore.

      That tacit acceptance can be best seen in Pakistan's North West Frontier Province (NWFP), where ethnic Pashtun men are well known for taking young boys as lovers, a practice now deeply embedded in the local culture and an obvious consequence of the strict segregation of women there. But according to a Boston Globe report published in July 2004 entitled "Open Secret", homosexuals in Pakistan walk a fine line between harsh legal and cultural prohibition and a form of unspoken social acceptance.

      "Islamic tradition frowns on but acknowledges male-male sex and this plays a role in permitting clandestine sex so long as it is not allowed to interfere with family life, which is of paramount importance," San Francisco-based sociologist Stephen Murray was quoted as saying in his 1997 collection of scholarly essays entitled "Sociological Control of Homosexuality: A Multi-Nation Comparison". Cultural and religious tradition keeps such relationships largely hidden in Pakistan, he wrote, adding there is no gay life in the Western sense of the word, and any sexual relationships between men have to be concealed and managed behind the context of marriage to a woman.

      Further complicating the matter, Murray noted that the most common form of male homosexuality in Pakistan was pederasty, whereby an older man entices or coerces a younger male into sex, sometimes using physical force. Such incidents serve only to blur the issues of homosexuality and exploitation, the Boston Globe report said, making it even more difficult for gays to be open about their sexuality and assert their need for rights. This drives them further underground.

      "Many organisations who have tried to work on the rights of gay people have really used HIV/AIDS programmes to approach the subject and cannot [do so] openly," Jilani maintained.

      IN THE SHADOWS

      One local NGO responding to a request for an interview by IRIN underscored the concern people working to tackle the subject face.

      "This is a critical issue in our society. We have to be careful for that. Please let us know how many persons will be with you," asked the NGO employee warily, inquiring whether any journalists or anyone from the authorities would be present at the proposed meeting. "Human rights activists like us struggle for the rights of people including gays and other youngsters. If you want to find a person who is campaigning openly for gay rights only, the answer is NO," he said adamantly, going on to describe homosexuality as a harshly punishable sin and a crime.

      "Some religious persons may kill the person who talks about gay rights," he warned.

      A VOICE ABROAD

      Even so, while activists on the ground may prefer to keep a low profile on the issue, those abroad are more vocal.

      "The lack of proper democracy and the lack of respect for internationally set standards of human rights makes the lives of LGBT [lesbian gay bisexual and transgender] people in Pakistan more difficult," Kursad Kahramananoglu, who heads up the International Lesbian and Gay Association (ILGA), the oldest and only membership-based LGBT organisation in the world, told IRIN from London.

      ILGA often receive requests from LGBT people in Pakistan for help in receiving political asylum in western countries, he said, noting that because of a lack of resources they are unable to deal with individual cases.

      "However, I can tell you one of the active members of the ILGA organisation now lives in London because it was not possible to live as an open gay man in Pakistan," Kahramananoglu said.

      With regard to members in Pakistan, he replied: "We cannot for reasons you can appreciate give their contact details," explaining it was precisely this issue of confidentiality which has been used against the ILGA at the United Nations in the past.

      OFFICIAL LINE

      The government in Islamabad has never hidden its intolerance towards the issue of gay rights. In April 2003, a UN vote on homosexual human rights was derailed at the last minute by an alliance of disapproving Muslim countries, including Pakistan, which introduced amendments designed to kill the measure.

      The amendments removed all references to discrimination on the basis of sexual orientation, rendering the resolution meaningless, a 25 April 2003 Guardian report said. The resolution, was sponsored by Brazil with support from 19 of the 53 member countries of the UN Human Rights Commission. It called on member states to promote and protect the human rights "of all persons, regardless of their sexual orientation".

      "Pakistan, which prides itself on being the land of civilised, educated, humane people, cannot do anything else but see the truth. At present they are in denial," Kahramananoglu charged. "They say homosexuality does not exist in Pakistan and that if it does it must be the corrupt effect of these degenerate Western infidels! And yet they admire and work hard to achieve most other things from the West. What will the Pakistani government do if and when the Netherlands or Canada appoints a legally married gay Ambassador to Pakistan with his lovely partner? Cut diplomatic ties with the Netherlands or Canada?" the ILGA official asked.

      Such questions might best be put to the country's lawmakers, with Pakistan reportedly being one of the few countries in the world where homosexuality is punishable by death. According to ILGA, Pakistan is one of only eight countries today still retaining capital punishment for homosexuality. Others include Mauritania, Sudan, Afghanistan, the Chechen Republic, Iran, Saudi Arabia and Yemen. The situation with regard to the United Arab Emirates is unclear.

      According to Jilani, while homosexuality is an offence under Pakistan's Penal Code (PCC), the law does not specifically refer to homosexuality.

      "In the Pakistan Penal Code the provision defining the offence and prescribing the punishment for it is titled "unnatural offences", she said, noting that while there were several convictions under this statute each year, it is not possible to give precise statistics.

      Under section 377 of the PCC, whoever voluntarily has carnal intercourse against the order of nature with any man, woman or animal, shall be punished with imprisonment for life, or with imprisonment of either description for a term which [shall not be less than two years nor more than] 10 years, and shall also be liable to a fine, she explained.

      Yet such ambiguity in the law makes the challenge of changing society's perception of homosexuality all the more difficult. For there to be any hope of progress for the gay community, it will be necessary for the attitudes of ordinary people to change. Meanwhile, for men like Tariq, whose hope for progress remains minimal, the precarious balancing act of living two lives continues.

      "People here are not ready to talk about homosexuality so they are certainly not ready to talk about gay rights," he said in a matter of fact manner. "They tell me it's a sin to be gay. But the real sin is not being allowed to be who I am."
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      • #4
        Homosexuality is prevalent in Pakistan - to shun away from this fact, is to shy away from the truth and let it continue behind closed doors. It is now becoming more and more open and almost honourable to be gay - this sick mentality needs to be exposed and people need to be aware of it.

        The Quran specifically condemns homosexuality and the most significant example left for mankind to ponder upon is that of the people to whom Prophet Lut (Lot) was sent:

        "We also sent Lut : He said to his people : "Do ye commit lewdness such as no people in creation (ever) committed before you? For ye practice your lusts on men in preference to women: ye are indeed a people transgressing beyond bounds." Qur'an 7:80-81

        "Of all the creatures in the world, will ye approach males, And leave those whom Allah has created for you to be your mates? Nay, ye are a people transgressing (all limits)! They said: "If thou desist not, O Lut! thou wilt assuredly be cast out!" He said: "I do detest your doings:" "O my Lord! deliver me and my family from such things as they do!" So We delivered him and his family,- all Except an old woman who lingered behind. But the rest We destroyed utterly. We rained down on them a shower (of brimstone): and evil was the shower on those who were admonished (but heeded not)! Verily in this is a Sign: but most of them do not believe. And verily thy Lord is He, the Exalted in Might, Most Merciful." (Qur'an 26:165-175)

        "If any of your women are guilty of lewdness, Take the evidence of four (Reliable) witnesses from amongst you against them; and if they testify, confine them to houses until death do claim them, or Allah ordain for them some (other) way. If two men among you are guilty of lewdness, punish them both. If they repent and amend, Leave them alone; for Allah is Oft-returning, Most Merciful." (Qur'an 4:15-16)

        "Would ye really approach men in your lusts rather than women? Nay, ye are a people (grossly) ignorant! But his people gave no other answer but this: They said, "Drive out the followers of Lut from your city: these are indeed men who want to be clean and pure!" But We saved him and his family, except his wife; her We destined to be of those who lagged behind. And We rained down on them a shower (of brimstone): and evil was the shower on those who were admonished (but heeded not)!" (Qur'an 27:55-58)

        It is important to note that there are some progressive muslims who think its fine for one to be homosexual and muslim - yet no references are cited.
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        • #5
          shouldnt have been moved from general.

          bump.
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          • #6
            wot are you trying to prove or show by posting this? i dont understand its purpose?


            There is no nobility in anyone who lacks faith.

            The wise man knows that the only fitting price for his soul is a place in Paradise.

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            • #7
              Originally posted by Al_irhaab
              wot are you trying to prove or show by posting this? i dont understand its purpose?
              Homosexuality is rampant in pakistan - you should have been able to see the point from the posts - they are there to stimulate a discussion.
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              • #8
                its sad to see these comments from people saying "I am gay and Muslim and there is nothing wrong with it" like proudly displaying their sins.

                Some people could actually be "gay" as in they feel attracted 2 the wrong sex, and I guess I will accept that they can't help it.. but once they start acting upon those feeling that is what will take them into the clearly Haraam, and to proudly announce that is blatantly wrong :(

                I know it is hard for people if they did feel attracted to the opposite sex so they couldnt get married or anything, but in that case why can't they accept it as a test from Allah swt rather than giving into this desire of their nafs? And then letting the shaytaan to trick them that it is not even disobedience to Allah?? Insha Allah if they are having problems of being attracted to their same sex, then they should fast.. I read that from some scholars. They dont need to marry if they dont want to be with a woman, as it wouldnt b fair on the wife, but they could lead a single and celibate life in that case with plenty of fasting and keep themself busy with other activities 2 keep their mind off this problem..
                <button id="tw_schedule_btn" class="tw-schedule-btn" style="padding: 4px 6px;position: absolute;left: 141px;top: 840px;background-color: #F7F7F7; background: linear-gradient(#FFF, #F0F0F0); border: 1px solid #CCC; color: #5F5F5F; cursor: pointer; font-weight: bold; text-shadow: 0 1px #FFF; white-space: nowrap;border-radius: 3px;font-size: 11px; display: none; z-index: 8675309">Schedule</button>

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                • #9
                  cliffs plenty of cliffs around ... how can u not be attracted to the opposite sex....:scratch:


                  There is no nobility in anyone who lacks faith.

                  The wise man knows that the only fitting price for his soul is a place in Paradise.

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                  • #10
                    happy pakistan indepence day
                    .لا نريد زعيما يخاف البيت الإبيض
                    نريد زعيما يخاف الواحد الأحد
                    دولة الإسلامية باقية





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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Abu Mubarak
                      happy pakistan indepence day
                      Do You Have a Problem With Pakistan....
                      "Europe died in Bosnia and was buried in Syria. Bodies of innocent children washing ashore are the
                      western civilization's tombstones"


                      Rajab Tayyab Erdogan

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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by witty
                        Homosexuality is prevalent in Pakistan - to shun away from this fact, is to shy away from the truth and let it continue behind closed doors. It is now becoming more and more open and almost honourable to be gay - this sick mentality needs to be exposed and people need to be aware of it.
                        yup it's prevalent in Pakistan, i know some of these sick ppl's but i have yet to come across who admits it.

                        I do remember i along with my 2 friends were going bak home in university bus. A big tall beard guy ( from jammat e islami) tried to play dirty tricks with one of my friend. my friend just kept quiet (we also judged that something is going wrong) & when he was about to get off the bus we stopped his way & said him " see jammati man, u may be tall big & belong to a student union but now we gonna beat the hell out of you so u'r mom even couldn't recognise u'r filthy face" he got scared & apologised , we let him go!
                        "Europe died in Bosnia and was buried in Syria. Bodies of innocent children washing ashore are the
                        western civilization's tombstones"


                        Rajab Tayyab Erdogan

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          :start:

                          :salams


                          More power to him. Gay people are born like that, no-one chooses to be gay or become gay. I believe that gay people need our support. It was nice to read that in Pakistan gay people can live a good life too.
                          Farva Khan, Islamabad, Pakistan
                          I'm being serious but do gay people have a gay gene or something? Answer is NO!

                          They blame it on genetic factors but even genes with mutations does not mean someone will be gay. Fine genes are randomly assorted and each person has diff genotype and phenotype, but to blame one's sexual preference on genetic make up is absurd and ridiculous!

                          It's easy to blame one's sins on something that cannot be seen, but if people study biology they would realise there is no gay gene, what next? gay vibes?

                          Gay people born like that excuse is a pathetic way of blaming one's sins on somehting else. Xtianity, judaism and Islam do not accept gays, i'm sure hindus and sikhs have the same stance. Wallahu alim.

                          It's scary to think most religions get updated to suit the needs of the followers like it's supposed to be 'Bespoke religion'-tailor made for YOUR convenience

                          :salams
                          Allah and His angels call down blessings on the Prophet . O you who believe! call down blessings on him and ask for complete peace and safety for him :inlove: (33:56)

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by imran1976
                            Do You Have a Problem With Pakistan....
                            not at all

                            they can have happy indendence day and gay pride day on the same street if you ask me
                            .لا نريد زعيما يخاف البيت الإبيض
                            نريد زعيما يخاف الواحد الأحد
                            دولة الإسلامية باقية





                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Abu Mubarak
                              not at all

                              they can have happy indendence day and gay pride day on the same street if you ask me
                              USA and UK have a lot of gays too,still I see ppl(muslims) here say their proud americans or brits for that matter. And now since Pakistan has them too,we Pakistanis must say we are ashamed to belong to such a race?
                              Man knows so much yet does so little...

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