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Social security in an islamic state

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    #16
    Re: Social security in an islamic state

    Originally posted by abdulsidd View Post
    Just a correction. The zakah is not 2.5% of 100%, but rather 2.5% of whatever a workman is able to save for 1 year. So much much less than 2.5% of 100%. However, there are other taxes that were applied, but I haven't studied that aspect of the Shariah or history, so I can't elaborate on those taxes.

    There is also sadaqah in general that Muslims are encouraged to give to the needy.

    As for what would happen in an Islamic State, then all the revenue (tax, war booty, etc.) goes into the bait ul-mal, or treasury. From there it is up to the ruler to figure out a system for distributing it for the needs of the people and government. During the Khilafah Rashidah (and even today in Saudia and other countries), there was a stipend for every citizen including children. If someone was still needy after that, then more was given to them from the treasury at the discretion of the ruler or a wealthy citizen would give them sadaqah.
    So social security wouldnt really exist much, figuring ppl give less then even a fifth of what belgium has
    يَٰٓأَيُّهَا ٱلنَّاسُ ٱعْبُدُوا۟ رَبَّكُمُ ٱلَّذِى خَلَقَكُمْ وَٱلَّذِينَ مِن قَبْلِكُمْ لَعَلَّكُمْ تَتَّقُونَ

    O mankind, worship your Lord, who created you and those before you, that you may become righteous

    Surah Al Baqarah ayah 21

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      #17
      Re: Social security in an islamic state

      Originally posted by aynina View Post
      So social security wouldnt really exist much, figuring ppl give less then even a fifth of what belgium has
      Why wouldn't it exist? Even back then, everyone got a stipend. Its so much easier today with all the oil money. Taxes are not the only revenue for a government.

      As for the structure of the social security system, then that's not spelled out exactly in the Shariah, as far as I know. So that is where there is some room for a ruler to get creative and come up with a good system.

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        #18
        Re: Social security in an islamic state

        Originally posted by abdulsidd View Post
        Why wouldn't it exist? Even back then, everyone got a stipend. Its so much easier today with all the oil money. Taxes are not the only revenue for a government.

        As for the structure of the social security system, then that's not spelled out exactly in the Shariah, as far as I know. So that is where there is some room for a ruler to get creative and come up with a good system.
        Belgium has a system better then most other countries tbh

        A stipednd being a scholarship like?
        يَٰٓأَيُّهَا ٱلنَّاسُ ٱعْبُدُوا۟ رَبَّكُمُ ٱلَّذِى خَلَقَكُمْ وَٱلَّذِينَ مِن قَبْلِكُمْ لَعَلَّكُمْ تَتَّقُونَ

        O mankind, worship your Lord, who created you and those before you, that you may become righteous

        Surah Al Baqarah ayah 21

        Comment


          #19
          Re: Social security in an islamic state

          Originally posted by aynina View Post
          Belgium has a system better then most other countries tbh

          A stipednd being a scholarship like?
          A salary. Basically a monthly wage from the government. Not sure how much it would be, but even today, Saudi Arabia gives it to their citizens.

          Comment


            #20
            Re: Social security in an islamic state

            Originally posted by abdulsidd View Post
            Just a correction. The zakah is not 2.5% of 100%, but rather 2.5% of whatever a workman is able to save for 1 year. So much much less than 2.5% of 100%. However, there are other taxes that were applied, but I haven't studied that aspect of the Shariah or history, so I can't elaborate on those taxes.

            There is also sadaqah in general that Muslims are encouraged to give to the needy.

            As for what would happen in an Islamic State, then all the revenue (tax, war booty, etc.) goes into the bait ul-mal, or treasury. From there it is up to the ruler to figure out a system for distributing it for the needs of the people and government. During the Khilafah Rashidah (and even today in Saudia and other countries), there was a stipend for every citizen including children. If someone was still needy after that, then more was given to them from the treasury at the discretion of the ruler or a wealthy citizen would give them sadaqah.
            This is what I've read, like there was a stipend for the needy and even non-Muslims under protection through jizyah
            وَاقْصِدْ فِي مَشْيِكَ وَاغْضُضْ مِن صَوْتِكَ ۚ إِنَّ أَنكَرَ الْأَصْوَاتِ لَصَوْتُ الْحَمِيرِ - 31:19

            And be moderate in your pace and lower your voice; indeed, the most disagreeable of sounds is the voice of donkeys."


            أَلَمْ تَرَوْا أَنَّ اللَّهَ سَخَّرَ لَكُم مَّا فِي السَّمَاوَاتِ وَمَا فِي الْأَرْضِ وَأَسْبَغَ عَلَيْكُمْ نِعَمَهُ ظَاهِرَةً وَبَاطِنَةً ۗ وَمِنَ النَّاسِ مَن يُجَادِلُ فِي اللَّهِ بِغَيْرِ عِلْمٍ وَلَا هُدًى وَلَا كِتَابٍ مُّنِيرٍ - 31:20

            Do you not see that Allah has made subject to you whatever is in the heavens and whatever is in the earth and amply bestowed upon you His favors, [both] apparent and unapparent? But of the people is he who disputes about Allah without knowledge or guidance or an enlightening Book [from Him].


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              #21
              Re: Social security in an islamic state

              Originally posted by LailaTheMuslim View Post
              This is what I've read, like there was a stipend for the needy and even non-Muslims under protection through jizyah
              so people pay taxes to the Islamic government, in return they get money back from the Islamic government that is actually more than what they pay in taxes. This money that the government gives away is created from where?

              Comment


                #22
                Re: Social security in an islamic state

                First of All Allah would bless us with rizq

                Second jihad and ghanima fei would give rizq
                During umar ibn abdul aziz khilafa may Allah have mercy upon him it is said that no one was poor so no one needed zakat

                Also everyone will pay zakat no tax evasion

                Also say what u want but we have seen that in syria/iraq there was free gas electricity water houses education transport and even glasses until the coalition airstrikes went crazy

                Comment


                  #23
                  Re: Social security in an islamic state

                  Originally posted by abdulsidd View Post
                  A salary. Basically a monthly wage from the government. Not sure how much it would be, but even today, Saudi Arabia gives it to their citizens.
                  So everyone receives it, not just those in need?
                  يَٰٓأَيُّهَا ٱلنَّاسُ ٱعْبُدُوا۟ رَبَّكُمُ ٱلَّذِى خَلَقَكُمْ وَٱلَّذِينَ مِن قَبْلِكُمْ لَعَلَّكُمْ تَتَّقُونَ

                  O mankind, worship your Lord, who created you and those before you, that you may become righteous

                  Surah Al Baqarah ayah 21

                  Comment


                    #24
                    Re: Social security in an islamic state

                    Originally posted by aynina View Post
                    So everyone receives it, not just those in need?
                    Even the khalifas were paid
                    Abu bakr umar ra

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                      #25
                      Re: Social security in an islamic state

                      Originally posted by Abu julaybeeb View Post
                      Even the khalifas were paid
                      Abu bakr umar ra
                      With that 2.5% of someones savings? Imagine it would be €1200 a year one saved, €30 goes to the state, how is that enough to pay those individual people (of which many dont work and cant save but also some save more) a stipend, plus pay the khalif (and his assistents prolly)

                      It makes little sense
                      يَٰٓأَيُّهَا ٱلنَّاسُ ٱعْبُدُوا۟ رَبَّكُمُ ٱلَّذِى خَلَقَكُمْ وَٱلَّذِينَ مِن قَبْلِكُمْ لَعَلَّكُمْ تَتَّقُونَ

                      O mankind, worship your Lord, who created you and those before you, that you may become righteous

                      Surah Al Baqarah ayah 21

                      Comment


                        #26
                        Re: Social security in an islamic state

                        Originally posted by aynina View Post
                        With that 2.5% of someones savings? Imagine it would be €1200 a year one saved, €30 goes to the state, how is that enough to pay those individual people (of which many dont work and cant save but also some save more) a stipend, plus pay the khalif (and his assistents prolly)

                        It makes little sense

                        I imagine without things like riba and corruption, there will be more profit from businesses etc, and there's also jizyah (tax on the kuffar) so not everything comes from zakah. Also, in an ideal Islamic state, there will probably be a more stable family life, so less need for children to be on benefits etc. As for retirement, I imagine that children will take care of their parents in their old age.

                        Comment


                          #27
                          Re: Social security in an islamic state

                          Originally posted by Juwairiyyah View Post
                          I imagine without things like riba and corruption, there will be more profit from businesses etc, and there's also jizyah (tax on the kuffar) so not everything comes from zakah. Also, in an ideal Islamic state, there will probably be a more stable family life, so less need for children to be on benefits etc. As for retirement, I imagine that children will take care of their parents in their old age.
                          Good point, but there would still be unemployment and sick people though, which would probably be reasonable to handle
                          يَٰٓأَيُّهَا ٱلنَّاسُ ٱعْبُدُوا۟ رَبَّكُمُ ٱلَّذِى خَلَقَكُمْ وَٱلَّذِينَ مِن قَبْلِكُمْ لَعَلَّكُمْ تَتَّقُونَ

                          O mankind, worship your Lord, who created you and those before you, that you may become righteous

                          Surah Al Baqarah ayah 21

                          Comment


                            #28
                            Re: Social security in an islamic state

                            This thread makes little economic or logical sense, You have very little money taken in by taxes, yet have expectations that the Islamic government gives out huge and costly benefits and even stipends that are many times more than the tax revenue taken in. And that does not count the coast of building and maintaining modern infrastructure. cost of army, and general cost of government. So your expectations are built around illusions.

                            In one of the links above, one of the ways of the government spends is from war booty. This means the only way the government would work is to go to war, (how you are going to pay for all this army without taxes I don't know). attack other people and nations, take their property and wealth, and transfer it to Muslims. That sounds like what Isis tried to do or how the Spanish treated the Aztecs and Inca Empires. Not exactly highlights of civilization. Also not workable in today's world. Like Isis who tried this, the world to stands against you and your nation ends in bombs and explosions. Today's warfare is not people with swords on a horse and nations unite against such attacks.

                            You take about oil revenue, but if you just depend upon oik revenue and spend that revenue on just benefits, you end up like Venezuela. You run out of other people's money and nation falls apart. one day you also run out of oil, what do you do then?
                            Last edited by Door; 19-10-17, 07:48 AM.

                            Comment


                              #29
                              Re: Social security in an islamic state

                              [MENTION=143270]Door[/MENTION] correct. You need a stabile ground for this, you cant rely on sadaqah to give ppl stipends,

                              Btw companies pay 35% to the govt here so thats also a huge amount of money the state would lose when an islamic state.

                              We're talking about stipend here but what about maintaining roads, parks, where the trees and plants and grass need maintaining, how will we pay for that?

                              Insurance is haram but how can we help ppl who have a big accident or get sick ant can't pay for the treatment, we need a medical plan too
                              يَٰٓأَيُّهَا ٱلنَّاسُ ٱعْبُدُوا۟ رَبَّكُمُ ٱلَّذِى خَلَقَكُمْ وَٱلَّذِينَ مِن قَبْلِكُمْ لَعَلَّكُمْ تَتَّقُونَ

                              O mankind, worship your Lord, who created you and those before you, that you may become righteous

                              Surah Al Baqarah ayah 21

                              Comment


                                #30
                                Re: Social security in an islamic state

                                Originally posted by aynina View Post
                                Belgium has a system better then most other countries tbh

                                A stipednd being a scholarship like?
                                And what is their tax rate? What I have read they have the highest taxes in the western world on both national and local taxes. If you want big benefits from government, you need to pay huge tax amounts.
                                Last edited by Door; 19-10-17, 08:46 AM.

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