Need your advice in making an important decision

[A_Ahmed]

Salam alaikum brothers n sisters..

Lately I've been in some serious dilemma about making an important decision for myself.

There is this one sister who is of pakistani origin n stays in pakistan whom i came across through one matrimonial site. I find her to be very nice and we both share a good understanding and have good compatibility with eachother. We've been in contact with eachother for just a little over one month, but we believe that we both will make good lifemates for eachother.

I'm of an indian origin staying in kuwait. We both are urdu speaking, she is a sunni and so am i (although before me n my parents came to kuwait we were shia but then we came in touch with so many other muslim people here in the community we gradually shifted to the sunni ideology of islam). Right now I'm staying here in kuwait alone and my parents come here every once in 6 months just to renew their immigration papers and then go back to india as they are contemplating retirement.

The problem is that my parents are opposing this marriage.

Firstly coz my mother still hasn't completely left the shia ideology (unlike me and my father) and she wants me to get married to a shia girl only. My father is of the view that there is nothing wrong in marrying a shia girl and then changing her to the sunni way of islam if i wish. But what if that doesn't happen? or what if she instead makes me deviate from the particular path of islam that i follow? (although i know thats unlikely but still a possibility). (No offence intended to anyone of the shia caste over here).

My father and I have shifted to the sunni way of islam but haven't publicly declared ourselves in our shia community that we have taken the other way of islam instead and still mixup with the old community - i believe theres nothing wrong in that. But the problem is if i get married to a sunni girl then (since my family is quite affluencial in our city) my parents worry that other people of their community will raise fingers at them that their only child has broken away from the community and married a girl of another caste.

Secondly, my parents think that most of the pakistani girls aren't good and too cunning for a simple person like me. They believe like this due to the (bad) experience they've had with most of the pakistani families in our neighbourhood in kuwait. Also they've heard alot of bad things about pakistani people and their society so they are being more pessimistic specially since i'm their only child so they are being more cautious than required (which is somewhat understandable).

Thridly, they say that marrying someone outside of our city/caste will also have another disadvantage that if ever i'm in some problem later on in life and need any help i won't have my extended family (of my in laws) readily available to help me since they would be staying in another country. But what i say is why should i expect help from another people, why not just leave everything on allah, he is there to take care of all muslims for us to worry and expect help from other people.

My parents are opposing this marriage due to all those above mentioned reasons, i know they want me to be happy after marriage but I believe that my happiness lies in marrying that sister.

I'm unable to decide what course of action to take so I asked some of my friends and also searched online for some muslim communities so I could ask them for their advice and I found this one to be good enough to trust all the replies to be very helpful and religiously correct (after reading some older threads in the archive) so I decided to ask here.. all your opinions and suggestions will be highly appreciated.

Thank you.

[Shaolin's-Finest]

You should do Istikhara which is guidance from Allah (s.w.t).

[Sophiya]

assalamu alaikum
Can i just say first and foremost, nobody can make the decision for u, but only u can do that with Allah's help. One should listen to his parents in everything, except if it is soemthing that goes against Allah and your faith- u can find a verse about this in the qur'an- but i forget where. inshallah someone here will get it. You can't say u know this girl 100% if u met her through a matrimonial site can u? First of all all the caste stuff- no offense intended- is a whole load of crap- however its what ur parents r about, so even though u wouldn't care about such things- u need to respect them- have u tried not finding nice pious sunni girls of the same caste- or is all ur tribe shia?
u can't marry shia- becuase u have a responsibilty on your future kids- if they become shia- how much sin would that be on you? You can never assume u would turn a shia into a sunni- because to do so - would mean assuming u have the stronger will to resist satan and guide ur future wife- but how do u know that u wont turn shia- especially considering as u haven't cut any old ties with the shia community- there isn't anything to push u into staying sunni- u could make it as if u never were sunni- and it might seem to u as too hard to keep the pretence of being inwardly sunni- and what about the bidah things they do- do u join in- so they don't assume u beleive anything different?- sorry i am asking u such personal questions- but u should think about urself and what u stand for and where u r- before u can move on with the situation- have u asked a shiek or an imam?

[A_Ahmed]

Shaolin's-Finest: yes i'm thinking of doing that too.. but i'd also like to have some opinions about it from u all here..

Sophiya: to answer your questions first - our whole community is shia so theres no point in looking for any prospective girls from there. Yes i know that marrying anyone in shia isn't a (right) option for all those reasons that u mentioned in ur post. I don't join or mix up with the old shia community anymore nor do i even pretend to be a shia. Besides there ain't alot of people from my community staying here in kuwait so not many of them know about me in this regard (that i'm not a shia anymore). I've asked my shiekh (who used to teach me quran earlier) about this problem and he too told me something similar to what u wrote - that objecting to marrying a shia girl is absolutely right and in no circumstances should i agree to that. But whether I should marry the pakistani sister about whom i mentioned in my earlier post he didn't say much except for telling me to somehow find out about her more and make sure she is the way she seems to be.

But what i need to know from you all is that after I've found out about her that she is good enough (i've a few friends who are from pakistan and they said that they would go there and try to find a little about her family/background/etc) and if my parents still oppose due to all the reasons that i mentioned earlier then what should i do?.. Are all their reasons for opposing my marriage to her justified in anyway?..
Thanks for your replies.

[Sophiya]

have u tried using wisdom to get your parents to see it ur way- or say u would be just as happy i fthe organised ur marriage to a sunni girl- and u want them to be involved? hae u tried finding an intermediatry on your behalf- someone who they hold much respect for- and they would listen to- to defend you and convince them. convince them that considering they r gonna retire in kuwait where members of the community don't reside- it won't be so bad- and ur their son and u love thme and u wil ltake care of them and u matter- not them

[Al-Nasser]

go on akhi...finiding a pious wife you have "chemistry" with even if she is living on mars deserve the effort.....and it seems like the effort in this case is the effort of convincing your mother....so akhi...

pray istikhara
ask your father for support
talk to your mother and try to convince her
talk to your mother and try to convince her
talk to your mother and try to convince her

[Sophiya]

must be important if his repeating it 3 times

[Al-Nasser]

must be important if his repeating it 3 times

yeah...because if the mother approve and like the future hubby/wife then everything else is easy

[A_Ahmed]

Yes i tried to convince them as much as i could but they r not ready to agree to me on that, they tell me that if I want to marry the pakistani girl then i'll be on my own and i shouldn't expect any involvement or help from them in it. I told them that the pakistani girl is very good and we seem to have a very good understanding and compatibility as well as similar thoughts and i'd be very happy if i'd get to marry her with their backing, but the response is the same.

Actually my parents r going to retire to india forever (not to kuwait, but from kuwait).. so in india they would come across the shia community coz all their relatives (close n far) n friends r of the shia caste. I'd be staying in kuwait itself since my work is entirely based over here. I told them not to care so much about what the people would think but they keep saying that when one is so involved in the community then one's actions do matter in the community (incidently my father has a very affluencial background so he is quite famous in the community as well)..

As i had previously written that i had talked to my sheikh about it, he has also agreed to talk to my parents if need be (they know eachother well).

[Sophiya]

well get him to talk to them- becuase future decisions depend on the outcome of that possible meeting

if they agree then alhamdulillah
if they don't then go with them as long as any girl is sunni- however if its only shia- then don't- but there are ways u can go about it that will determine any future relationship u have with ur parents- remember u always need ur parents- ur future kids- God willing- will need grandparents etc- if u divorce this woman- imagine how u will regret chosing "love" over ur parents who raised u and truelly loved u....

[Ayah]

My father and I have shifted to the sunni way of islam but haven't publicly declared ourselves in our shia community that we have taken the other way of islam instead and still mixup with the old community - i believe theres nothing wrong in that. But the problem is if i get married to a sunni girl then (since my family is quite affluencial in our city) my parents worry that other people of their community will raise fingers at them that their only child has broken away from the community and married a girl of another caste.

Who cares about what other people think? I mean come on now. Sometimes it's hard enough for both you and your parents to agree about someone. Now you have to worry about what outsiders think? Subhan Allah. The key thing one is supposed to consider in marriage is deen. The other 3 qualities to consider are family, wealth, and beauty. Lol, "what others think" wasn't in the hadeeth.

Secondly, my parents think that most of the pakistani girls aren't good and too cunning for a simple person like me. They believe like this due to the (bad) experience they've had with most of the pakistani families in our neighbourhood in kuwait. Also they've heard alot of bad things about pakistani people and their society so they are being more pessimistic specially since i'm their only child so they are being more cautious than required (which is somewhat understandable).

I'm not even from pakistan, but I find that kind of statement/idea so offensive. Why generalize about people like that? Aren't we all Muslims? So you heard some bad things about ppl, but does that make 'em ALL bad? And are they bad b/c they're pakistani? Sheesh.

Thridly, they say that marrying someone outside of our city/caste will also have another disadvantage that if ever i'm in some problem later on in life and need any help i won't have my extended family (of my in laws) readily available to help me since they would be staying in another country.

I agree with sis sophiya's statement about this whole caste idea. It's hard for ppl to marry outside of their cultures, which is understandable. But some ppl are still particular about what city/caste a person is in?? Wow, I thought this was "old thinking" that no one bothers to worry about anymore.

As bro al-nasser said, pray istikharah, and if you feel this sister is "the one" for you, then try to convince your parents.

May Allah be with you.

~Ayah

[Ayah]

I know I've posted this before, and here I am, posting it again since it's relevant to this thread:

Taken from: http://www.islamonline.net



In the Name of Allah, Most Gracious, Most Merciful.


All praise and thanks are due to Allah, and peace and blessings be upon His Messenger.


Dear questioner, we would like to thank you for the great confidence you place in us, and we implore Allah Almighty to help us serve His cause and render our work for His Sake.

Islam is beyond and above cultures and traditions. In Islam the criteria is Islamic and not cultural. The important thing is to make sure that this prospective husband or wife is a good Muslim. Race and ethnicity are not considered. However, we must recognize that some difficulties may arise due to some differences in customs, etc. These must be known and addressed in the beginning.

If the parents are not accepting we must know what are their reasons? Are the reasons Islamic or just pure taste? It is therefore, important for the son/daughter to establish communication with his/her parents. If he/she is not able to communicate with them on his/her own, he/she may be better advised to seek other channels in the community to talk to them. Anyway one is required to deal most affectionately with his/her parents, and seek to please them in all other ways.

Elaborating on the issue of inter-cultural marriages in general, we'd like to cite the following fatwa:

"Prophet Muhammad (peace and blessings be upon him) has told us that "there is no difference (superiority) of an Arab Muslim over a non-Arab Muslim or of a non-Arab Muslim over an Arab Muslim except in the level of taqwa (or God consciousness and fear)." Prophet Muhammad (peace and blessings be upon him) also instructed the Muslims to choose their spouses based on the level of piousness and not based on wealth, family lineage, or looks. Also, cross-cultural marriages do have their built-in problems since you would be sharing your life with a person (and his family) who come from a totally different culture, so, try to be clear about the issues that may cause problems in the future."

Excerpted, with modifications, from: www.islamicity.com



Highly educated males and females should seek partners with a similar educational background. Cultural and family background is very important. Common language is an essential way of communicating. Such things help the two partners to understand, communicate and relate to one another and are factors of stability and success - as are financial independence and the ability to provide a decent acceptable level of maintenance. Again, this is a way of ensuring that outside influences do not spoil an otherwise happy life. All ways and means should be considered, giving a solid basis for a new human experience which is expected to provide a framework for a happy, successful and amicable life.


The questions of common language, cultural background, education and age, etc., are meant, in an ordinary stable context, to maximize the chances of success and stability in a very important Islamic institution, that of marriage. However, considering the particular position of Muslim communities living in minority situations, young Muslims, male and female, are exposed to all sorts of challenges - be they cultural, linguistic, racial or social.




To conclude, though sharing the same cultural background is an important element in ensuring the stability of the long-life partnership and avoiding the problems of cultural differences, the most important criterion is the religious one.

Allah Almighty knows best.

[Ayah]

Another Q/A about marriage

www.islamonline.net
Dear scholars, As-Salaam `Alaykum. I love a person and I wish to marry him. Although he is a Muslim, my parents do not consent to the marriage since we do not belong to the same culture or ethnic group. Will I be committing a sin if I were to defy my parents and go ahead and marry this person? Or do I simply forget the matter in the conviction that not all of our wishes can be fulfilled in this world, and it is only in Jannah that we will have complete and total fulfillment? Jazakum Allah khayran.

In the Name of Allah, Most Gracious, Most Merciful.

All praise and thanks are due to Allah, and peace and blessings be upon His Messenger.

Dear sister in Islam, we would like to thank you for the great confidence you place in us, and we implore Allah Almighty to help us serve His cause and render our work for His Sake.

In his response to the question you posed, Sheikh Ahmad Kutty, a senior lecturer and an Islamic scholar at the Islamic Institute of Toronto, Ontario, Canada, states:

"In Islam, it is not a sin if you feel a special affinity or inclination towards a certain individual since human beings have no control on such natural inclinations. We are, however, definitely responsible and accountable if we get carried away by such feelings and take specific actions or steps that might be deemed as Haram (forbidden).



If, however, one does none of the above, and all that he or she wants is to seriously consider marrying someone, such a thing itself is not considered Haram







Therefore, if you have made a choice based on the above consideration, then your parents have no right to stop your marriage. Since it is your choice to eat the food you wish to eat, likewise, it is your choice to decide whom you wish to choose as a life-long partner. They cannot stop you from marrying the person you want simply because the person is not sharing your culture or ethnic background.

Parents, however, have the authority to intervene should you choose someone of questionable moral and religious character. Should you proceed in such a case against their wishes, your marriage is deemed null and void according to the rules of Islamic jurisprudence.

If, however, your parents objection to your marriage is based purely on racial, cultural or ethnic grounds, you are allowed to seek other channels of authority to intervene in such a case, as long as the person of your choice is of acceptable religion and character. The concerned authority is supposed to get the parental consent to the marriage, but should they insist on their stand, the authority is sanctioned to authorize your marriage.

This last option should only be exercised after you have exhausted all endeavors to communicate with your parents, both individually and through other channels in the community such as elders or respectable leaders or Imams. It is more likely that parents are concerned about their children for genuine reasons, and that once things are explained to them, they will probably, relent.

As regards the second part of your question - whether we are to expect only all of our dreams to be materialized in the next world - that is quite true. This world is not a place where we have consummate fulfillment and satisfaction in every sense of the word since it is of limited possibilities. Yet, when we strive diligently and sincerely to obey Allah and His Messenger Allah promises us good both in this world and hereafter."

Excerpted, with slight modifications, from: www.islam.ca
Allah Almighty knows best.

[A_Ahmed]

Sophiya: If my parents (somehow) agree to get me married to a sunni girl but not that pakistani one since she is from a different country and little different culture - which is not a valid reason then can i still go ahead and marry her without the consent of my parents (if all the talks and intervention from other people don't work)?.. coz if they really had any genuine reason for me to not marry that girl i'd accept it and agree to marry any other sunni girl, but their reasons aren't good enough (i'm talking of the other reasons besides the sunni/shia ones)..


Thank you Ayah for your detailed posts, i'd like to have this one clarification -

If, however, her parents objection to her marriage is based purely on racial, cultural or ethnic grounds, she is allowed to seek other channels of authority to intervene in such a case, as long as the person of her choice is of acceptable religion and character. The concerned authority is supposed to get the parental consent to the marriage."

I'd like to know that what if the girl's parents object to her marriage with me due to the few cultural differences and since i'm of a different nationality then how can she still go ahead and marry me?.. i know that there has to be a guardian from her side present at marriage, but if her parents r opposing (she also doesn't expect any of her relatives to come ahead n help her coz they may not wish to upset her parents) then she may have to come to india to marry me, but without a guardian from her side n her parents still opposing her how can she possibly marry me?..

And in a worse case scenario where both of our parents after all our convincing efforts (and other's intervention) do not agree to our marriages then how do we go about getting married to eachother? n also how do we get the guardians to be present for both of us (if boys also require guardians to be present from their side as well coz i'm not sure about it) if we can't get any from our relatives or parents side?..

By the way i did the istikhara today, lets hope inshallah i'm able to understand the guidance of allah s.w.t. on the issue as well..

Thanks again for all your replies..

[Sophiya]

can i just ask one major question- i think is obvious but forgotten- exactly why do u wanna marry this girl for- her iman and faith and piety or for something else- like u get on with her- u think she is pretty etc- now be honest and think this through hard, becuase the best woman is a good practising one- so is she just an ok muslim- or u beleive her to be very pious?- how do u know what she is though- like u said- u have to go and get some of ur friends to check her out- how canu already be willing to sacrifice ur relationships for a woman u hardly know?