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  • Claim: It is not haram to have homosexual thoughts

    This claim is an apologetic one; and it seeks to come to a compromise with homosexuals and their lewdness along with the West and how they promote it and seek to have it accepted and part of the culture.

    However, there is no compromise on a subject that the Quran and the Sunnah have already made clear. Thus, the claim that it is not haram to have homosexual thoughts and that one is not considered a sinner until he acts upon it is false. This is the same as saying it is not haram to be gay until you act on it.

    It is clear that homosexuality is nothing but a perversion and a disease. There are numerous verses in the Quran about it and how it is referred to as "Al-Fahishah" (Lewdness, an abomination, a vile deed).

    “And know that Allah knows what is in your minds, so fear Him”

    [al-Baqarah 2:235]

    “but He will call you to account for that which your hearts have earned”

    [al-Baqarah 2:225].


    It is also clear that homosexuality begins as nothing but waswas from the Shaytan. We know that Shaytan and his troops are behind every evil on earth; they entice mankind to commit evil and they beautify shamelessness to them, and that is especially in regards to acts of lewdness in society; so why do we separate Shaytan and his effect on people turning gay? Why do we ignore it and indirectly agree with the kuffar's claim that homosexuality is a natural cause by saying thinking about it is not haram but only acting upon it is?

    With the fact established that homosexuality starts as nothing but waswas from the Shaytan (convincing a person that he likes men or women), it is wajib on a person to repel waswas from his mind and evil thoughts as much as he can. If a person watches pornography, lives in a society where they see homosexuality as normal, doesn't lower his gaze from looking at the 'awrah of men and women; then he gets waswas from the devil saying that he likes men; and instead of repelling these evil thoughts, he dwells on them and accepts them; and eventually, he convinces himself that he doesn't like women but he likes men, then the source of the problem is very clear. The means to homosexuality and zina must be cut off, and that includes dwelling upon thoughts regarding them.

    As for waswas a person cannot help or just passing thoughts that he does not dwell upon, yes, a person will not be held accountable and there is evidence for that. However, if this happens to someone, he is not considered gay. So a person cannot use this as evidence to say it is not haram to be gay until you act on it. He is only considered gay when he dwells on those thoughts and he accepts that he is not attracted to women, which leads him to act upon it.
    Last edited by Abu Abdur_Rahman; 08-04-17, 03:38 PM.

  • #2
    Re: Claim: It is not haram to have homosexual thoughts

    Originally posted by A.Basheer View Post
    However, there is no compromise on a subject that the Quran and the Sunnah have already made clear. Thus, the claim that it is not haram to have homosexual thoughts and that one is not considered a sinner until he acts upon it is false. This is the same as saying it is not haram to be gay until you act on it.
    We are judged by our actions and not our thoughts (as long as we don't dwell on them). If someone is gay but doesn't act on it, then how can you say it's haram? You can't, because their feelings are not a sin and they didn't act on it. In fact, Allah is probably rewarding them for not acting out on their feelings and we know this because of this hadith:

    Abu Huraira reported that Muhammad, the Messenger of Allah (may peace be upon him), said: When it occurs to my bondsman that he should do a good deed but he actually does not do it, record one good to him, but if he puts it into practice, I make an entry of ten good acts in his favour. When it occurs to him to do evil, but he does not commit it, I forgive that. But if he commits it, I record one evil against his name. The Messenger of Allah (may peace be upon him) observed. The angels said: That bondsman of Yours intends to commit evil. though His Lord is more Vigilant than he. Upon this He (the Lord) said: Watch him; if he commits (evil), write it against his name but if he refrains from doing it, write one good deed or him, for he desisted from doing it for My sake. The Messenger of Allah said: He who amongst you is good of faith, all his good acts are multiplied from ten to seven hundred times (and are recorded in his name) and all the evils that he commits are recorded as such (i, e. without increase) till he meets Allah. [Muslim]

    Along with countless of others.

    So it's not an apologetic attitude to have and Muslims really need to do better when faced with these issues, because condemning gay people when they haven't even done anything is stupid and will hurt you and them in the long run.
    وَإِذَا سَأَلَكَ عِبَادِي عَنِّي فَإِنِّي قَرِيبٌ أُجِيبُ دَعْوَةَ الدَّاعِ إِذَا دَعَانِ فَلْيَسْتَجِيبُواْ لِي وَلْيُؤْمِنُواْ بِي لَعَلَّهُمْ يَرْشُدُونَ
    "And when My servants ask you (O Muhammad concerning Me, then answer them), I am indeed near (to them by My knowledge). I respond to the invocations of the supplicant when he calls on Me (without any mediator or intercessor). So let them obey Me and believe in Me, so that they may be led aright."
    Surah al-Baqarah ayah 186
    [2:186]

    .:.
    .:. Perfer et Obdura : Dolor Hic Tibi Proderit Olim .:.
    Be patient and strong : someday this pain will be useful to you

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: Claim: It is not haram to have homosexual thoughts

      Originally posted by A.Basheer View Post
      This claim is an apologetic one; and it seeks to come to a compromise with homosexuals and their lewdness along with the West...
      You haven't studied much about Islamic history. Homosexuality was not unknown until the 21st century.

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: Claim: It is not haram to have homosexual thoughts

        Originally posted by Pippin1376 View Post
        We are judged by our actions and not our thoughts (as long as we don't dwell on them). If someone is gay but doesn't act on it, then how can you say it's haram? You can't, because their feelings are not a sin and they didn't act on it. In fact, Allah is probably rewarding them for not acting out on their feelings and we know this because of this hadith:

        Abu Huraira reported that Muhammad, the Messenger of Allah (may peace be upon him), said: When it occurs to my bondsman that he should do a good deed but he actually does not do it, record one good to him, but if he puts it into practice, I make an entry of ten good acts in his favour. When it occurs to him to do evil, but he does not commit it, I forgive that. But if he commits it, I record one evil against his name. The Messenger of Allah (may peace be upon him) observed. The angels said: That bondsman of Yours intends to commit evil. though His Lord is more Vigilant than he. Upon this He (the Lord) said: Watch him; if he commits (evil), write it against his name but if he refrains from doing it, write one good deed or him, for he desisted from doing it for My sake. The Messenger of Allah said: He who amongst you is good of faith, all his good acts are multiplied from ten to seven hundred times (and are recorded in his name) and all the evils that he commits are recorded as such (i, e. without increase) till he meets Allah. [Muslim]

        Along with countless of others.

        So it's not an apologetic attitude to have and Muslims really need to do better when faced with these issues, because condemning gay people when they haven't even done anything is stupid and will hurt you and them in the long run.
        I say it is haram because he got waswas from the Shaytan and he didn't repel them. Instead, he dwelt on those thoughts and accepted that he does not like women. For him to accept he does not like women, it is the same as accepting that Allah made him that way. This is the same as saying Allah made him inclined to al-Fahishah. If it is not natural, then it is from the Shaytan. So he must repel the waswas.



        "There are two scenarios:

        The first is if his thinking of sin was a passing thought that he did not dwell on and it did not take root in his heart; rather he disliked it and was put off by it. This will be forgiven; it is like the awful thoughts or whispers that the Prophet (blessings and peace of Allah be upon him) was asked about, and he said: “That is clear faith.” [Narrated by Muslim, 132]

        The second scenario is things that one has resolved and intends to do, that occurred to one’s mind and become established, and one dwells on them. These are of two types:

        ...

        The second type has to do with that which is not actions of the heart; rather they are physical actions, such as zina, stealing, drinking alcohol, murder, slander and so on. If a person persists in wanting to do such things and resolving to do them, but he shows no outward indication of that, then there are two well-known scholarly views as to whether he will be held accountable for that.

        The first view is that he will be held accountable for it. Ibn al-Mubaarak said: I asked Sufyaan ath-Thawri: Will a person be held accountable for thinking (of committing a sin)? He said: If he has resolved to do it, he will be held accountable.


        There is no need to call anything stupid because I can easily use harsh words at your claim that being gay is not haram until you act on it. You are accepting homosexuality here as being a natural occurrence. However, Allah will never make a man inclined towards another man. It goes against the fitrah and it is al-Fahishah. I already mentioned the cause of homosexuality in the long post above.

        And I condemn gay people before they act because they did not repel the waswas that made them think they like men and not women. Then, he dwelt on those thoughts and he ultimately accepted that he likes men.

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: Claim: It is not haram to have homosexual thoughts

          Originally posted by Pippin1376 View Post
          We are judged by our actions and not our thoughts (as long as we don't dwell on them). If someone is gay but doesn't act on it, then how can you say it's haram? You can't, because their feelings are not a sin and they didn't act on it. In fact, Allah is probably rewarding them for not acting out on their feelings and we know this because of this hadith:

          Abu Huraira reported that Muhammad, the Messenger of Allah (may peace be upon him), said: When it occurs to my bondsman that he should do a good deed but he actually does not do it, record one good to him, but if he puts it into practice, I make an entry of ten good acts in his favour. When it occurs to him to do evil, but he does not commit it, I forgive that. But if he commits it, I record one evil against his name. The Messenger of Allah (may peace be upon him) observed. The angels said: That bondsman of Yours intends to commit evil. though His Lord is more Vigilant than he. Upon this He (the Lord) said: Watch him; if he commits (evil), write it against his name but if he refrains from doing it, write one good deed or him, for he desisted from doing it for My sake. The Messenger of Allah said: He who amongst you is good of faith, all his good acts are multiplied from ten to seven hundred times (and are recorded in his name) and all the evils that he commits are recorded as such (i, e. without increase) till he meets Allah. [Muslim]

          Along with countless of others.

          So it's not an apologetic attitude to have and Muslims really need to do better when faced with these issues, because condemning gay people when they haven't even done anything is stupid and will hurt you and them in the long run.
          I want to say this is a separate post because it obliterates your claim completely:

          You claim that being gay is okay until you act on it. That is the same as saying being an atheist inwardly is okay. Both atheism and homosexuality go against the natural disposition, both of them are from the Shaytan, and both of them are irrational and an abomination.

          How many people including Muslims get waswas about the Essence of Allah? Shaytan whispers to someone that Allah does not exist -- prove that He exists. If he does not repel these thoughts and he dwells on them, and he lives in a society that accepts it and he is lax with his prayers and connection to Allah, he will eventually become an atheist (as we see many Muslims do today). The same goes for homosexuality.

          The only difference is the society you live in has made you desensitized to homosexuality.

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: Claim: It is not haram to have homosexual thoughts

            From what I have read and asked questions of a scholar, it is not a sin to have a thought and to accept it is wrong and to resist and repel that thought and any subsequent thoughts.

            Nevertheless, we must be aware that not all homosexuals are lewd and promoting their condition. Some are struggling to live with a very difficult situation as best they can in submission and obedience to Allah (swt) so we need to be mindful of this group in the way we speak about this topic.

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: Claim: It is not haram to have homosexual thoughts

              Originally posted by Rifqah View Post
              From what I have read and asked questions of a scholar, it is not a sin to have a thought and to accept it is wrong and to resist and repel that thought and any subsequent thoughts.

              Nevertheless, we must be aware that not all homosexuals are lewd and promoting their condition. Some are struggling to live with a very difficult situation as best they can in submission and obedience to Allah (swt) so we need to be mindful of this group in the way we speak about this topic.
              But sister, we cannot call such people homosexuals, these people are simply people who struggle with waswasa and lowering their gaze. Being a homosexual and identifying as such means one has accepted homosexuality. And what's funny is science is trying really hard to prove homosexuality is genetic (giving it a reason for even existing) but so far, nothing great has come up.

              A 2012 study proposed that epigenetic changes, or alterations in marks on DNA that turn certain genes on and off, may play a role in homosexuality. This type of gene regulation isn't as stable as DNA, and can be switched on and off by environmental factors or conditions in the womb during prenatal development. But this so-called epigenome can also be passed on from generation to generation, which would explain why being gay seems to run in families, even when a single gene can't be pinpointed.
              Source: http://www.livescience.com/50058-bei...-a-choice.html

              I need to point out that of course, there will be a minute link to genetic relations because genes dictate almost everything that happens in our bodies (of course, Allah ta'ala is the one who made us like this) so it isn't surprising there is a slight link but again, this is with literally every aspect in life. If you don't have the genes to make photosynthesis, you will never in a 1000 years make photosynthesis (so long as Allah does not will it). But if you have the capability of "being gay" you will have some sort of genes linking to that. Point is, no genes (or in this case, epi-genes) are a causation for homosexuality.

              Also would like to point out, most homosexuals if not all, have been molested as children or had sexual trauma (sad to say) and that is what has caused they "gay-ness". Others perform gay acts and become gay; key example is prisoners. So no one is actually born gay, it's purely behavioral and environmental as proven by the excerpt above.

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: Claim: It is not haram to have homosexual thoughts

                Originally posted by A.Basheer View Post
                I want to say this is a separate post because it obliterates your claim completely:

                You claim that being gay is okay until you act on it. That is the same as saying being an atheist inwardly is okay. Both atheism and homosexuality go against the natural disposition, both of them are from the Shaytan, and both of them are irrational and an abomination.

                How many people including Muslims get waswas about the Essence of Allah? Shaytan whispers to someone that Allah does not exist -- prove that He exists. If he does not repel these thoughts and he dwells on them, and he lives in a society that accepts it and he is lax with his prayers and connection to Allah, he will eventually become an atheist (as we see many Muslims do today). The same goes for homosexuality.

                The only difference is the society you live in has made you desensitized to homosexuality.
                Here's my thought process, homosexuality and heterosexuality is mainly about sex and attraction. If a straight guy is having urges towards every female around, then he should control himself and say "Allah comes first." If a gay guy is having urges towards some guys around, then he should control himself and say "Allah comes first."

                If brothers and sisters have issues when it comes to zina, then someone who has attraction to the same gender will feel the same way so it's best to remind them to control their nafs and remember Allah

                That is all.

                If you feel like this is not the right approach and instead it's better to condemn the person and tell them that everything about them is a sin, then feel free to do it. But my approach is better, because we're all in this together and we all want to go to Jannah. :)
                وَإِذَا سَأَلَكَ عِبَادِي عَنِّي فَإِنِّي قَرِيبٌ أُجِيبُ دَعْوَةَ الدَّاعِ إِذَا دَعَانِ فَلْيَسْتَجِيبُواْ لِي وَلْيُؤْمِنُواْ بِي لَعَلَّهُمْ يَرْشُدُونَ
                "And when My servants ask you (O Muhammad concerning Me, then answer them), I am indeed near (to them by My knowledge). I respond to the invocations of the supplicant when he calls on Me (without any mediator or intercessor). So let them obey Me and believe in Me, so that they may be led aright."
                Surah al-Baqarah ayah 186
                [2:186]

                .:.
                .:. Perfer et Obdura : Dolor Hic Tibi Proderit Olim .:.
                Be patient and strong : someday this pain will be useful to you

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: Claim: It is not haram to have homosexual thoughts

                  Originally posted by Sarah5 View Post
                  Also would like to point out, most homosexuals if not all, have been molested as children or had sexual trauma (sad to say) and that is what has caused they "gay-ness".
                  I think saying these things is dangerous, because it's not true for everyone. Sadly, there are kids who have been molested and have sexual trauma (May Allah protect them and give them peace in this life and the next.) And they don't all become gay, so this is kind of a odd comment to say. Plus, if a fellow Muslim who is gay reads this and says "I've never been touched, what is she on about?" Then it may turn them away from the deen, because they believe we think that they've all been touched as kids.

                  The fact remains that some people feel this way. Regardless of why, they need to be reminded that Allah wants khayr for them and wants them to do good in this life so they can have better things in the next. Pretty much talk to them like you would any Muslim who may or may not be struggling with their faith, or as a human for that matter that you wish Jannah for.
                  وَإِذَا سَأَلَكَ عِبَادِي عَنِّي فَإِنِّي قَرِيبٌ أُجِيبُ دَعْوَةَ الدَّاعِ إِذَا دَعَانِ فَلْيَسْتَجِيبُواْ لِي وَلْيُؤْمِنُواْ بِي لَعَلَّهُمْ يَرْشُدُونَ
                  "And when My servants ask you (O Muhammad concerning Me, then answer them), I am indeed near (to them by My knowledge). I respond to the invocations of the supplicant when he calls on Me (without any mediator or intercessor). So let them obey Me and believe in Me, so that they may be led aright."
                  Surah al-Baqarah ayah 186
                  [2:186]

                  .:.
                  .:. Perfer et Obdura : Dolor Hic Tibi Proderit Olim .:.
                  Be patient and strong : someday this pain will be useful to you

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: Claim: It is not haram to have homosexual thoughts

                    Originally posted by Pippin1376 View Post
                    Here's my thought process, homosexuality and heterosexuality is mainly about sex and attraction. If a straight guy is having urges towards every female around, then he should control himself and say "Allah comes first." If a gay guy is having urges towards some guys around, then he should control himself and say "Allah comes first."

                    If brothers and sisters have issues when it comes to zina, then someone who has attraction to the same gender will feel the same way so it's best to remind them to control their nafs and remember Allah

                    That is all.

                    If you feel like this is not the right approach and instead it's better to condemn the person and tell them that everything about them is a sin, then feel free to do it. But my approach is better, because we're all in this together and we all want to go to Jannah. :)
                    Sister, you ignored it in my first post and again it my second reply to you. Now you made the same claim indicating that homosexuality is a natural occurrence by saying: "If a gay guy is having urges"...

                    You have already accepted that he is gay and you are okay with it. I gave the reason for it and that it is purely waswas from the Shaytan that turns into thoughts then feelings then actions.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: Claim: It is not haram to have homosexual thoughts

                      Originally posted by A.Basheer View Post
                      Sister, you ignored it in my first post and again it my second reply to you. Now you made the same claim indicating that homosexuality is a natural occurrence by saying: "If a gay guy is having urges"...

                      You have already accepted that he is gay and you are okay with it. I gave the reason for it and that it is purely waswas from the Shaytan that turns into thoughts then feelings then actions.
                      Your first post and second were essentially the same, so I didn't feel like there was a point in replying to both.

                      I said gay guy, because that's the topic at hand....would this be a better post?

                      Here's my thought process, homosexuality and heterosexuality is mainly about sex and attraction. If a guy is having urges towards every female around, then he should control himself and say "Allah comes first." If another guy is having urges towards some guys around, then he should control himself and say "Allah comes first."

                      If brothers and sisters have issues when it comes to zina, then someone who has attraction to the same gender will feel the same way so it's best to remind them to control their nafs and remember Allah

                      That is all.

                      If you feel like this is not the right approach and instead it's better to condemn the person and tell them that everything about them is a sin, then feel free to do it. But my approach is better, because we're all in this together and we all want to go to Jannah. :)
                      If so...then I'm saying the exact same thing as before akhi.
                      وَإِذَا سَأَلَكَ عِبَادِي عَنِّي فَإِنِّي قَرِيبٌ أُجِيبُ دَعْوَةَ الدَّاعِ إِذَا دَعَانِ فَلْيَسْتَجِيبُواْ لِي وَلْيُؤْمِنُواْ بِي لَعَلَّهُمْ يَرْشُدُونَ
                      "And when My servants ask you (O Muhammad concerning Me, then answer them), I am indeed near (to them by My knowledge). I respond to the invocations of the supplicant when he calls on Me (without any mediator or intercessor). So let them obey Me and believe in Me, so that they may be led aright."
                      Surah al-Baqarah ayah 186
                      [2:186]

                      .:.
                      .:. Perfer et Obdura : Dolor Hic Tibi Proderit Olim .:.
                      Be patient and strong : someday this pain will be useful to you

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: Claim: It is not haram to have homosexual thoughts

                        Originally posted by Pippin1376 View Post
                        I think saying these things is dangerous, because it's not true for everyone. Sadly, there are kids who have been molested and have sexual trauma (May Allah protect them and give them peace in this life and the next.) And they don't all become gay, so this is kind of a odd comment to say. Plus, if a fellow Muslim who is gay reads this and says "I've never been touched, what is she on about?" Then it may turn them away from the deen, because they believe we think that they've all been touched as kids.

                        The fact remains that some people feel this way. Regardless of why, they need to be reminded that Allah wants khayr for them and wants them to do good in this life so they can have better things in the next. Pretty much talk to them like you would any Muslim who may or may not be struggling with their faith, or as a human for that matter that you wish Jannah for.
                        and that is what has caused they "gay-ness"
                        sis this quote along with the link that describes how someone may be more genetically inclined to being gay means that I do not mean all kids and people who are/were molested will turn out gay, it simply explains why gay people who think they were born like this turned out this way. "I remember when I was 8 I had a crush on a boy" yet the man who says this was molested at age 5, so of course this will mean he will like boys by age 8 if he were gay, but because he doesn't link the incidence with his orientation, he thinks he is "born" like this. AstaghfiruAllah.

                        Sister you are failing to realize no one is born gay. Did Allah ta'ala create people born with genetic diseases (God forbid this on all of us and future kids) and condemn them? Did Allah ta'ala create people who have mental and physical disabilities and condemn them? Sub'ana Allah. So why would Allah ta'ala create gay people only to condemn their existence? Okay, let's hypothetically say there is decent proof of a link between genetics and the inclination towards the same sex, but can't they control who they marry? Can't they control such urges? I'll tell you this right now, there is not a single gay man who cannot be intimate with a woman, everything can biologically proceed but it his "preference" that he does not be with a woman.
                        A person who God forbid, has schizophrenia (genetic mental illness) cannot, for the life of them, control their disease.

                        And of course, I am nice to everyone. They are just sinners after all. Will they be close friends? Of course not, just like any other person who chooses to openly sin. I do not want to be associated with such people and possibly be influenced. Will I be mean to them and be proud? Of course not. I say Allah yihdeeyon and keep moving.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: Claim: It is not haram to have homosexual thoughts

                          The label on what it is is not as important as the recognition that such thoughts are a clear blatant symptom of a major disease in the heart, where such a disease is worse than other diseases that might afflict a person.

                          It's pointless to say that it's "not haram" because everything that leads up to such thoughts is itself haram and due to a haram lifestyle where obscenity has become something the person is used to, enough for them to actually think and be attracted to the next tier in obscenity, that is homosexuality.

                          It should be addressed within the self asap, and doing that will mean addressing whatever it is in one's life that is haram and led up to that. Things like smut (number one cause), bad friends, bad influences, bad environment, etc. If one wasn't already steeped in haram they would not have homosexual thoughts.
                          والمبادرة إلى التكفير إنما تغلب على طباع من يغلب عليهم الجهل - ابن تيمية رحمه الله - بغية المرتاد

                          "Rushing towards takfir is an attitude which is dominant over those who are defeated by ignorance." - Ibn Taymiyyah Rahimahullah [Bughyatul Murtaad, page 354]

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: Claim: It is not haram to have homosexual thoughts

                            Now you made the same claim indicating that homosexuality is a natural occurrence by saying: "If a gay guy is having urges"...

                            You have already accepted that he is gay and you are okay with it
                            So you're saying that their gay thoughts are deliberate? What about the gays who get shock therapy? If it was as simple as turning off their urges then why have people gone to such extremes to get rid of their homo urges? Shock therapy in the past was a VERY painful process.
                            Women lost their modesty when men lost their gheerah..” .

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Re: Claim: It is not haram to have homosexual thoughts

                              Originally posted by Sarah5 View Post
                              sis this quote along with the link that describes how someone may be more genetically inclined to being gay means that I do not mean all kids and people who are/were molested will turn out gay, it simply explains why gay people who think they were born like this turned out this way. "I remember when I was 8 I had a crush on a boy" yet the man who says this was molested at age 5, so of course this will mean he will like boys by age 8 if he were gay, but because he doesn't link the incidence with his orientation, he thinks he is "born" like this. AstaghfiruAllah.

                              Sister you are failing to realize no one is born gay. Did Allah ta'ala create people born with genetic diseases (God forbid this on all of us and future kids) and condemn them? Did Allah ta'ala create people who have mental and physical disabilities and condemn them? Sub'ana Allah. So why would Allah ta'ala create gay people only to condemn their existence? Okay, let's hypothetically say there is decent proof of a link between genetics and the inclination towards the same sex, but can't they control who they marry? Can't they control such urges? I'll tell you this right now, there is not a single gay man who cannot be intimate with a woman, everything can biologically proceed but it his "preference" that he does not be with a woman.
                              A person who God forbid, has schizophrenia (genetic mental illness) cannot, for the life of them, control their disease.

                              And of course, I am nice to everyone. They are just sinners after all. Will they be close friends? Of course not, just like any other person who chooses to openly sin. I do not want to be associated with such people and possibly be influenced. Will I be mean to them and be proud? Of course not. I say Allah yihdeeyon and keep moving.
                              Sis, I took issue with you saying "most homosexuals if not all, have been molested as children or had sexual trauma" because that just seems like hogwash.

                              And I've not said anything about being born gay or it being a condition, because that doesn't really matter at the end of the day. It's a moot point and issue for me. What matters more is that Muslim out there are struggling with their nafs and hearing that they're evil for feeling however they feel. They need to be told that Allah loves them, they still have just as much of a chance to go to Jannah as you and me, and to treat them like our fellows brothers and sisters by being there for them and comfort them when they're down.

                              That's more important to me.

                              The narrative that Muslims have been using when it comes to these sensitive issues is really lacking and we're pushing people away from the deen instead of bring them into it. The Prophet (SAW) and his Seerah taught us how to deal with people who sin openly but want to have a connection with Allah . The Arabs of before were worse than anything that we've seen and his message made them the best of the best of generations.

                              We need to remember that more instead of making claims that they've been sexual abused and whatnot. If they have, then be there for them and report the sick person who hurt them. But we need to do better as Muslims and change our narrative.
                              وَإِذَا سَأَلَكَ عِبَادِي عَنِّي فَإِنِّي قَرِيبٌ أُجِيبُ دَعْوَةَ الدَّاعِ إِذَا دَعَانِ فَلْيَسْتَجِيبُواْ لِي وَلْيُؤْمِنُواْ بِي لَعَلَّهُمْ يَرْشُدُونَ
                              "And when My servants ask you (O Muhammad concerning Me, then answer them), I am indeed near (to them by My knowledge). I respond to the invocations of the supplicant when he calls on Me (without any mediator or intercessor). So let them obey Me and believe in Me, so that they may be led aright."
                              Surah al-Baqarah ayah 186
                              [2:186]

                              .:.
                              .:. Perfer et Obdura : Dolor Hic Tibi Proderit Olim .:.
                              Be patient and strong : someday this pain will be useful to you

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