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What does Islam say about slavery?

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  • #46
    Re: What does Islam say about slavery?

    Originally posted by Blackbeard View Post
    [MENTION=135611]
    The freeing of a slave is recommended after the slave has done his part, that is converting to Islam, praying and after that, it is recommended but not obligatory to free them.
    Daleel for this? I have not read or heard of any such restrictions placed on freeing slaves.

    Comment


    • #47
      Re: What does Islam say about slavery?

      Originally posted by abdulsidd View Post
      Daleel for this? I have not read or heard of any such restrictions placed on freeing slaves.
      "restrictions"

      No one has put any restrictions rather I said it becomes recommended or "good" at that point.

      Yes, it is good for the master to free the slave if he becomes Muslim. The Lawgiver enjoined and encouraged that, and opened many doors to it. https://islamqa.info/en/94840
      Although it doesn't explain much you can read about slavery here: https://islamqa.info/en/94840

      It also says the reason for slavery is because of their kufr. The only way to enslave is through warfare. Even a slave can buy himself free if he has left his past and possibly became a muslim. They gain additional rights upon reverting to Allahs deen.
      "There will never cease to remain a group from my Ummah fighting upon the command of Allah, subjugating their enemies. They are not harmed by those who oppose them, until the Hour arrives".

      Comment


      • #48
        Re: What does Islam say about slavery?

        Originally posted by King1234 View Post
        I didnt say i didnt accept ahadith. I said haram and halal is only in the quran, ahadith teach us how to live a better life but anyways. It doesnt matter anymore believe what you want and i will believe what i want because none of us are going to have slaves any time soon so its a dead topic.
        How do you pray salah from Qur'an?
        Qur'an says follow the prophet :saw: so by following the ahadith you are following the Qur'an.
        Winning an argument doesn't mean you're on truth, losing an argument doesn't mean you're on falsehood.

        Comment


        • #49
          Re: What does Islam say about slavery?

          Originally posted by Blackbeard View Post
          "restrictions"

          No one has put any restrictions rather I said it becomes recommended or "good" at that point.



          Although it doesn't explain much you can read about slavery here: https://islamqa.info/en/94840

          It also says the reason for slavery is because of their kufr. The only way to enslave is through warfare. Even a slave can buy himself free if he has left his past and possibly became a muslim. They gain additional rights upon reverting to Allahs deen.
          OK, that is fine. But freeing a slave is good regardless of whether the slave is Muslim or non-Muslim. Of course, it is better to free a Muslim slave. Your earlier post seemed to indicate that slaves should not be freed unless they have become Muslims first. Forgive me if I misunderstood.

          Comment


          • #50
            Re: What does Islam say about slavery?

            Originally posted by abdulsidd View Post
            OK, that is fine. But freeing a slave is good regardless of whether the slave is Muslim or non-Muslim. Of course, it is better to free a Muslim slave. Your earlier post seemed to indicate that slaves should not be freed unless they have become Muslims first. Forgive me if I misunderstood.
            The user says Allah tells us to free slaves, I say he encourages the freeing of them if the slave becomes a muslim.

            However I don't know about mushrikeen apart from ahle kitab, I don't know how someone can free them without them reverting to Islam because they are not allowed to have other faiths....

            This is why Allah says that he can free himself them through a contract if he has renounced his past, presumably his kufr and bad doings.
            Last edited by Blackbeard; 22-01-16, 04:26 AM.
            "There will never cease to remain a group from my Ummah fighting upon the command of Allah, subjugating their enemies. They are not harmed by those who oppose them, until the Hour arrives".

            Comment


            • #51
              Re: What does Islam say about slavery?

              Originally posted by Blackbeard View Post
              The user says Allah tells us to free slaves, I say he encourages the freeing of them if the slave becomes a muslim.

              However I don't know about mushrikeen apart from ahle kitab, I don't know how someone can free them without them reverting to Islam because they are not allowed to have other faiths....

              This is why Allah says that he can free himself them through a contract if he has renounced his past, presumably his kufr and bad doings.
              A person can have whatever faith he/she chooses. That is the point of this world. If Allah had wanted us to all have the same faith by force, there would have been no need for this worldly life and free will. Their faith has no bearing on whether or not they are allowed to be freed from slavery. I have not seen anything in the tafasir or anywhere else that prohibits the freeing of mushrik slaves. Islam encourages the freeing of slaves in general, and the restriction based on faith seems to be coming solely from you.

              Where does it say that a slave has to renounce his/her past to get a contract for freedom? Have you read the verse (Surah Nur, Ayah 33) in Arabic? Translating literally it commands the master to give the contract to the slave if he finds any khair (good) in him/her. The tafsir mentions that there are two opinions about khair in this verse. One is that it indicates honesty and trustworthiness while the other is that it indicates having some skill or ability to provide for himself or herself as a free person, rather than becoming a burden on society by being unemployed and begging for a living. There is nothing in the tafsir mentioning that khair in that ayah indicates on accepting Islam.
              Last edited by abdulsidd; 22-01-16, 06:56 AM.

              Comment


              • #52
                Re: What does Islam say about slavery?

                Originally posted by abdulsidd View Post
                A person can have whatever faith he/she chooses. That is the point of this world. If Allah had wanted us to all have the same faith by force, there would have been no need for this worldly life and free will. Their faith has no bearing on whether or not they are allowed to be freed from slavery. I have not seen anything in the tafasir or anywhere else that prohibits the freeing of mushrik slaves. Islam encourages the freeing of slaves, and the restriction based on faith seems to be coming solely from you.

                Where does it say that a slave has to renounce his/her past to get a contract for freedom? Have you read the verse (Surah Nur, Ayah 33) in Arabic? Translating literally it commands the master to give the contract to the slave if he finds any khair (good) in him/her. The tafsir mentions that there are two opinions about khair. One is that it indicates honesty and trustworthiness while the other is that it indicates having some skill or ability to provide for himself or herself as a free person, rather than becoming a burden on society by being unemployed and begging for a living. There is nothing in the tafsir mentioning that khair in that ayah indicates on accepting Islam.
                First of all, please do not be stupid and attribute a fatwa to me. The shaykh who made the fatwa said that when they become muslims, it is encouraging to free them. So don't ask me, ask him

                Secondly, I said the ayah was if he renounced his kufr and bad doings because the point of his enslavement was his kufr and him waging war against Allah. Yet again read the fatwa because at this point it seems as if you didn't read it properly. You cannot attribute anything to me when I link something which was taken from a fatwa I even linked the source.

                Thirdly, do you know what jizyah is? And are you aware that only the Jews and the Christians has this option to pay and no one else? So this means if they are not either a christian or a jew, they would be forced to convert. If you say "no", why do you think Jizyah exist? Would it be free for that mushrik to live in darul islam without paying jizyah because he is not from ahle kitab?

                If you are now talking about the freeing of a mushrik slave, how about checking your eyes or getting some sleep if its too late because you are accusing me of making something haram when I clearly said

                Originally posted by Blackbeard View Post
                The user says Allah tells us to free slaves, I say he encourages the freeing of them if the slave becomes a muslim.

                However I don't know about mushrikeen apart from ahle kitab, I don't know how someone can free them without them reverting to Islam because they are not allowed to have other faiths....

                This is why Allah says that he can free himself them through a contract if he has renounced his past, presumably his kufr and bad doings.
                Do you know what "I dont know" means brother?
                Last edited by Blackbeard; 22-01-16, 07:05 AM.
                "There will never cease to remain a group from my Ummah fighting upon the command of Allah, subjugating their enemies. They are not harmed by those who oppose them, until the Hour arrives".

                Comment


                • #53
                  Re: What does Islam say about slavery?

                  Originally posted by Blackbeard View Post
                  First of all, please do not be stupid and attribute a fatwa to me. The shaykh who made the fatwa said that when they become muslims, it is encouraging to free them. So don't ask me, ask him

                  Secondly, I said the ayah was if he renounced his kufr and bad doings because the point of his enslavement was his kufr and him waging war against Allah. Yet again read the fatwa because at this point it seems as if you didn't read it properly. You cannot attribute anything to me when I link something which was taken from a fatwa I even linked the source.

                  Thirdly, do you know what jizyah is? And are you aware that only the Jews and the Christians has this option to pay and no one else? So this means if they are not either a christian or a jew, they would be forced to convert. If you say "no", why do you think Jizyah exist? Would it be free for that mushrik to live in darul islam without paying jizyah because he is not from ahle kitab?

                  If you are now talking about the freeing of a mushrik slave, how about checking your eyes or getting some sleep if its too late because you are accusing me of making something haram when I clearly said



                  Do you know what "I dont know" means brother?
                  Basically you don't know and yet you go around the forum spreading nonsense that you came up with on your own. Fear Allah. I read the fatwa earlier in the day before you even linked it and then again later, and it does not support your assertion that a mushrik slave cannot be freed.

                  And please understand that forcing anyone to convert is absolutely not accepted in Islam. It makes no sense. You cannot force a person's heart to accept Islam. And if a person's heart does not have faith then he/she has not converted. There is a very clear ayah in the Quran that says that there is no compulsion when it comes to faith.
                  Last edited by abdulsidd; 22-01-16, 07:20 AM.

                  Comment


                  • #54
                    Re: What does Islam say about slavery?

                    Originally posted by abdulsidd View Post
                    Basically you don't know and yet you go around the forum spreading nonsense that you came up with on your own. Fear Allah. I read the fatwa earlier in the day before you even linked it and then again later, and it does not support your assertion that a mushrik slave cannot be freed.
                    You say "fear Allah" yet you have no shame for accusing me of saying that a mushrik slave cannot be freed.

                    Bring your evidence of your claim, I will be waiting for your apology of yours due to this ugly slander.
                    "There will never cease to remain a group from my Ummah fighting upon the command of Allah, subjugating their enemies. They are not harmed by those who oppose them, until the Hour arrives".

                    Comment


                    • #55
                      Re: What does Islam say about slavery?

                      Originally posted by Blackbeard View Post
                      You say "fear Allah" yet you have no shame for accusing me of saying that a mushrik slave cannot be freed.

                      Bring your evidence of your claim, I will be waiting for your apology of yours due to this ugly slander.
                      The evidence is clear in this thread.

                      Comment


                      • #56
                        Re: What does Islam say about slavery?

                        Originally posted by abdulsidd View Post
                        The evidence is clear in this thread.
                        Where? We have not even gone one page and you cant even show me where.

                        You've insulted me, accused me of a major sin.

                        I said "I don't know about mushrikeen apart from ahle kitab, I don't know how someone can free them without them reverting to Islam because they are not allowed to have other faiths"..(being anything but the ahle kitab as jizya is for them only)

                        you took it as "it's not allowed" while I have never said such.

                        If you feared Allah you would have apologized. I feel insulted.
                        "There will never cease to remain a group from my Ummah fighting upon the command of Allah, subjugating their enemies. They are not harmed by those who oppose them, until the Hour arrives".

                        Comment


                        • #57
                          Re: What does Islam say about slavery?

                          Originally posted by abdulsidd View Post
                          And please understand that forcing anyone to convert is absolutely not accepted in Islam. It makes no sense. You cannot force a person's heart to accept Islam. And if a person's heart does not have faith then he/she has not converted. There is a very clear ayah in the Quran that says that there is no compulsion when it comes to faith.
                          oh yeah I just noticed this as well. you're a hypocrite because you just did what you accused me of doing, talking with no knowledge. While you accused me of a major sin which I never commited, you just committed one so please make tawbah and fear Allah.

                          the scholars are of the view that only the verse about no compulsion is only for jews and christians. An hindu for example is forced to convert or fight the muslims, only ahle kitab has the option of jizya and keeping their religion. The verse from surah baqarah has nothing to do with what you claim, it has to do with jizya.

                          https://islamqa.info/en/34770
                          "There will never cease to remain a group from my Ummah fighting upon the command of Allah, subjugating their enemies. They are not harmed by those who oppose them, until the Hour arrives".

                          Comment


                          • #58
                            Re: What does Islam say about slavery?

                            The freeing of a slave is recommended after the slave has done his part, that is converting to Islam, praying and after that, it is recommended but not obligatory to free them.
                            Any normal person reading that sentence would understand that it means that if the slave has not done his part, that is converting to Islam and praying, then it is not recommended to free that slave.

                            However, the recommendation to free slaves is general and does not depend on whether or not the slave has converted to Islam and prayed, or whether he or she is mushrik or not. If you did not mean that, then I apologize and advise you to be more accurate in your posts about the Shariah of Allah. A single word can make a big difference.

                            I'm sorry you feel insulted. I also feel very disrespected and unmanned. Can you please apologize to me? Ummah forum is the only place that I get any respect after all.

                            Comment


                            • #59
                              Re: What does Islam say about slavery?

                              Originally posted by Blackbeard View Post
                              oh yeah I just noticed this as well. you're a hypocrite because you just did what you accused me of doing, talking with no knowledge. While you accused me of a major sin which I never commited, you just committed one so please make tawbah and fear Allah.

                              the scholars are of the view that only the verse about no compulsion is only for jews and christians. An hindu for example is forced to convert or fight the muslims, only ahle kitab has the option of jizya and keeping their religion. The verse from surah baqarah has nothing to do with what you claim, it has to do with jizya.

                              https://islamqa.info/en/34770
                              That fatwa is unconvincing. It does not provide any daleel or quotes from scholars for applying the ayah only to Jews and Christians. Tafsir of Ibn Kathir does not mention any restrictions or abrogations to that ayah. Also, Rasulullah :saw: did not force the Makkans or anyone else to accept Islam. Finally, logically it does not make sense that anyone can be forced to become Muslim. Islam starts in the heart. If the heart does not believe then the person is not Muslim. Just like if a Muslim is forced to say words of kufr but his heart believes in Islam truly, then he is still a Muslim.

                              Comment


                              • #60
                                Re: What does Islam say about slavery?

                                Originally posted by abdulsidd View Post
                                Any normal person reading that sentence would understand that it means that if the slave has not done his part, that is converting to Islam and praying, then it is not recommended to free that slave.

                                However, the recommendation to free slaves is general and does not depend on whether or not the slave has converted to Islam and prayed, or whether he or she is mushrik or not. If you did not mean that, then I apologize and advise you to be more accurate in your posts about the Shariah of Allah. A single word can make a big difference.

                                I'm sorry you feel insulted. I also feel very disrespected and unmanned. Can you please apologize to me? Ummah forum is the only place that I get any respect after all.
                                So you accuse me of major sin (possibly even kufr) for saying that it becomes recommended to free when the slave becomes a muslim based on this fatwa I linked?

                                Yes, it is good for the master to free the slave if he becomes Muslim. The Lawgiver enjoined and encouraged that, and opened many doors to it. Glory be to the Most Wise, the All Knowing.
                                Straight from the fatwa.

                                Originally posted by abdulsidd View Post
                                A
                                However, the recommendation to free slaves is general and does not depend on whether or not the slave has converted to Islam and prayed, or whether he or she is mushrik or not. If you did not mean that, then I apologize and advise you to be more accurate in your posts about the Shariah of Allah. A single word can make a big difference.
                                No you did not accuse me of this, and even if you did (which you didn't) it wouldn't matter as I did not declare anything haram as you tried to say I did..... rather I said it was recommended because the fatwa says it is and it's enjoined and encouraged by Allah when the slave is a muslim.

                                However what you said was this below

                                Originally posted by abdulsidd View Post
                                Basically you don't know and yet you go around the forum spreading nonsense that you came up with on your own. Fear Allah. I read the fatwa earlier in the day before you even linked it and then again later, and it does not support your assertion that a mushrik slave cannot be freed.
                                I never made this claim hence you've slandered me with something as serious as declaring something haram which is a major sin.

                                If you're going to sarcastically mock me regarding this, I will make dua that Allah settles this in yawm al qiyamah due to your lying and deception.

                                Originally posted by abdulsidd View Post
                                That fatwa is unconvincing. It does not provide any daleel or quotes from scholars for applying the ayah only to Jews and Christians. Tafsir of Ibn Kathir does not mention any restrictions or abrogations to that ayah. Also, Rasulullah :saw: did not force the Makkans or anyone else to accept Islam. Finally, logically it does not make sense that anyone can be forced to become Muslim. Islam starts in the heart. If the heart does not believe then the person is not Muslim. Just like if a Muslim is forced to say words of kufr but his heart believes in Islam truly, then he is still a Muslim.
                                Not convinced because you are a shaykh or because a scholar actually proved you wrong? Yet again you make it seem as if it's my claim. In the very end, you are accusing Bin baaz of lying or something lol. Good job on being an honest muslim.
                                Last edited by Blackbeard; 22-01-16, 08:13 AM.
                                "There will never cease to remain a group from my Ummah fighting upon the command of Allah, subjugating their enemies. They are not harmed by those who oppose them, until the Hour arrives".

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