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The basics of la ilaha ilallah: disbelieving in Taghout

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  • The basics of la ilaha ilallah: disbelieving in Taghout


  • #2
    You wont find anyone dissagreeing with the above, from the muslims,

    Some loons claiming its Shirk Akbar to vote for a less Islamophobic Kaafir, but its not to let a Islamophobic Kaafir rule over them, without voting.

    http://www.ilovepalestine.com/campai...imesinGaza.gif

    "It does not befit the lion to answer the dogs."

    – Imam al-Shafi’i (Rahimahullah)

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by Saif-Uddin View Post
      You wont find anyone dissagreeing with the above, from the muslims,

      Some loons claiming its Shirk Akbar to vote for a less Islamophobic Kaafir, but its not to let a Islamophobic Kaafir rule over them, without voting.
      so your saying if someone believes by voting your committing shirk
      but also believes if they dont vote and a kaafir is still put into power to rule then its not shirk

      is wrong

      ??

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by Abu julaybeeb View Post

        so your saying if someone believes by voting your committing shirk
        but also believes if they dont vote and a kaafir is still put into power to rule then its not shirk

        is wrong

        ??
        We went through this before akhi,

        In Uk a Kaafir is gonna rule over you, whatever you do.

        You either let any old Kaffir rule over you or choose one that may cause less harm to the Muslims, one who is less Islamophobic.

        You and Kuntumaytan claiming the muslims who did the latter are all Murtadeen since they according to you committed Shirk Akbar.

        So far you have failed to prove this. You and him just kept stating Legislation belongs to Allah عز و جل as an argument to make Takfir.

        ​​​​

        http://www.ilovepalestine.com/campai...imesinGaza.gif

        "It does not befit the lion to answer the dogs."

        – Imam al-Shafi’i (Rahimahullah)

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by Saif-Uddin View Post

          We went through this before akhi,

          In Uk a Kaafir is gonna rule over you, whatever you do.

          You either let any old Kaffir rule over you or choose one that may cause less harm to the Muslims, one who is less Islamophobic.

          You and Kuntumaytan claiming the muslims who did the latter are all Murtadeen since they according to you committed Shirk Akbar.

          So far you have failed to prove this. You and him just kept stating Legislation belongs to Allah عز و جل as an argument to make Takfir.

          ​​​​
          first of all u need to distinguish between saying an act is shirk and making takfir


          just coz an act is shirk doesnt mean we make individual takfir on every person
          u can make a general takfir
          but not an individual takfir

          second of all
          your point doesnt disprove its shirk


          another ayat for daleel

          Allah SWT said:

          أَلَمْ تَرَ إِلَى الَّذِينَ يَزْعُمُونَ أَنَّهُمْ ءَامَنُوا بِمَآ أُنْزِلَ إِلَيْكَ وَمَآ أُنْزِلَ مِنْ قَبْلِكَ يُرِيدُونَ أَنْ يَتَحَاكَمُوٓا إِلَى الطّٰغُوتِ وَقَدْ أُمِرُوٓا أَنْ يَكْفُرُوا بِهِۦ وَيُرِيدُ الشَّيْطٰنُ أَنْ يُضِلَّهُمْ ضَلٰلًۢا بَعِيدًا
          "Have you not seen those who claim to have believed in what was revealed to you, [O Muhammad], and what was revealed before you? They wish to refer legislation to Taghut, while they were commanded to reject it; and Satan wishes to lead them far astray."
          (QS. An-Nisaa 4: Verse 60)

          * Via Qur'an English http://quran-en.com

          these people that votr arent rejecting the taghut infact they are helping the taghut get into power and commit shirk

          Comment


          • #6
            The worse of the Taghut were the false scholars who claimed to represent Quran and Sunnah and be a means to judgment, that is why Quran clarifies the issue of the true leaders of guidance who are to be coupled with Quran.

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by Abu julaybeeb View Post
              first of all u need to distinguish between saying an act is shirk and making takfir


              just coz an act is shirk doesnt mean we make individual takfir on every person
              u can make a general takfir
              but not an individual takfir

              second of all
              your point doesnt disprove its shirk


              another ayat for daleel

              Allah SWT said:

              أَلَمْ تَرَ إِلَى الَّذِينَ يَزْعُمُونَ أَنَّهُمْ ءَامَنُوا بِمَآ أُنْزِلَ إِلَيْكَ وَمَآ أُنْزِلَ مِنْ قَبْلِكَ يُرِيدُونَ أَنْ يَتَحَاكَمُوٓا إِلَى الطّٰغُوتِ وَقَدْ أُمِرُوٓا أَنْ يَكْفُرُوا بِهِۦ وَيُرِيدُ الشَّيْطٰنُ أَنْ يُضِلَّهُمْ ضَلٰلًۢا بَعِيدًا
              "Have you not seen those who claim to have believed in what was revealed to you, [O Muhammad], and what was revealed before you? They wish to refer legislation to Taghut, while they were commanded to reject it; and Satan wishes to lead them far astray."
              (QS. An-Nisaa 4: Verse 60)

              * Via Qur'an English http://quran-en.com

              these people that votr arent rejecting the taghut infact they are helping the taghut get into power and commit shirk

              If its Shirk Akbar, then they out of Islam,

              If it isn't then they aren't,

              Your confused, that's why you Keep going back forth refusing to accept the consequences.
              http://www.ilovepalestine.com/campai...imesinGaza.gif

              "It does not befit the lion to answer the dogs."

              – Imam al-Shafi’i (Rahimahullah)

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by Saif-Uddin View Post


                If its Shirk Akbar, then they out of Islam,

                If it isn't then they aren't,

                Your confused, that's why you Keep going back forth refusing to accept the consequences.

                shirk and takfir doesnt change according to the amount of people that do it

                most people dont vote anyway and if they do then thats their fault they should have looked at the quran and seen legislation is only for Allah

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by Abu julaybeeb View Post


                  shirk and takfir doesnt change according to the amount of people that do it

                  most people dont vote anyway and if they do then thats their fault they should have looked at the quran and seen legislation is only for Allah
                  Your throwing red herrings to dodge the point.

                  If you claim people committed Shirk Akbar by voting, then you are claiming they are Murtadeen.

                  Legislation is only for Allah عز و جل but you let a Kaafir rule over you, wether you vote or you don't.

                  You still haven't proved how its Kufr to vote for a Kaafir who would potentially cause less harm to muslims.
                  http://www.ilovepalestine.com/campai...imesinGaza.gif

                  "It does not befit the lion to answer the dogs."

                  – Imam al-Shafi’i (Rahimahullah)

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Saif-Uddin View Post

                    Your throwing red herrings to dodge the point.

                    If you claim people committed Shirk Akbar by voting, then you are claiming they are Murtadeen.

                    Legislation is only for Allah عز و جل but you let a Kaafir rule over you, wether you vote or you don't.

                    You still haven't proved how its Kufr to vote for a Kaafir who would potentially cause less harm to muslims.
                    if you vote then your committing shirk and yes your a murtad
                    the only person that may be exscused is a person that has no contact with muslims and has never heard of voting being bad in anyway whether shirk or haram etc this is due to the fact that some may see voting as an unclear matter therefore the hujjah may be established before making takfir on them
                    however some view it as a clear matter and would make takfir straightaway without applying the hujjah even if they have no muslims or contact with islam and havent heard about shirk being bad
                    (that is why i said even if its shirk not all are murtadeen straightaway it depends which view you follow and what you deem about the individuals situation)
                    when it comes to takfir if its a clear matter then the person is made takfir on without the establishment of hujjah
                    if its unclear the hujjah must be established first

                    there are also preventatives of takfir
                    and with shirk this includes ikrah (compulsion)
                    majnoon(insanity or being crazy)


                    its not oh you commit shirk your murtad


                    your not letting a kaafir rule over your whether you vote or dont vote
                    you dont have a choice
                    you dont have the ability to remove the person therefore if you dont vote its not your fault your not in any wrong

                    the 2 ayatas i sent you wish ti refer legislation ti the taghut when you was ordered to reject it and legislation is only for Allah so worship only him proove voting is shirk
                    and ulama have also stated this not just me
                    nothing else to it

                    and if you ask asharis about this matter they may differ as their process of takfir differs to ahlus sunnah wal jama ah
                    Last edited by Abu julaybeeb; 08-11-18, 09:23 AM.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Abu julaybeeb View Post

                      if you vote then your committing shirk and yes your a murtad
                      the only person that may be exscused is a person that has no contact with muslims and has never heard of voting being bad in anyway whether shirk or haram etc this is due to the fact that some may see voting as an unclear matter therefore the hujjah may be established before making takfir on them
                      however some view it as a clear matter and would make takfir straightaway without applying the hujjah even if they have no muslims or contact with islam and havent heard about shirk being bad
                      (that is why i said even if its shirk not all are murtadeen straightaway it depends which view you follow and what you deem about the individuals situation)
                      when it comes to takfir if its a clear matter then the person is made takfir on without the establishment of hujjah
                      if its unclear the hujjah must be established first

                      there are also preventatives of takfir
                      and with shirk this includes ikrah (compulsion)
                      majnoon(insanity or being crazy)


                      its not oh you commit shirk your murtad


                      your not letting a kaafir rule over your whether you vote or dont vote
                      you dont have a choice
                      you dont have the ability to remove the person therefore if you dont vote its not your fault your not in any wrong

                      the 2 ayatas i sent you wish ti refer legislation ti the taghut when you was ordered to reject it and legislation is only for Allah so worship only him proove voting is shirk
                      and ulama have also stated this not just me
                      nothing else to it

                      and if you ask asharis about this matter they may differ as their process of takfir differs to ahlus sunnah wal jama ah
                      Finally accepting the consequences of your argument,

                      So your saying those who voted are Murtadeen because they legitimised a Kaafir to rule over them?

                      http://www.ilovepalestine.com/campai...imesinGaza.gif

                      "It does not befit the lion to answer the dogs."

                      – Imam al-Shafi’i (Rahimahullah)

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Saif-Uddin View Post

                        Finally accepting the consequences of your argument,

                        So your saying those who voted are Murtadeen because they legitimised a Kaafir to rule over them?
                        generally yes mutlaq
                        but not individually not muayn
                        Last edited by Abu julaybeeb; 08-11-18, 06:57 PM.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Abu julaybeeb View Post
                          generally yes mutlaq
                          but not individually not muayn
                          So generally all muslims who voted have become Murtadeen according to you.

                          If that's the case, then with the millions of Murtadeen who voted according to your argument , you have to admit that by not voting your potentially legitimising an even worse Kaafir.

                          Last edited by Saif-Uddin; 09-11-18, 05:06 AM.
                          http://www.ilovepalestine.com/campai...imesinGaza.gif

                          "It does not befit the lion to answer the dogs."

                          – Imam al-Shafi’i (Rahimahullah)

                          Comment

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