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  • #31
    Re: Somalia and Arab?

    Originally posted by deezed12 View Post
    I take issue with you saying that most Arabs are racist to Somalis. This is not true and certainly where I live the Arabs and Somalis tend to get along very well. If however you are talking about 'back home' in some of the Arab countries then I still take issue as they are racist even to Arabs from other countries and not specifically Somalis!
    Yeah brother probably exaggerated abit, not all Arabs are racist, however most back home are hostile to many different people in other countries like you said.
    I rather be hated by everybody else, but loved by Allah. Than be loved by everybody else and hated by Allah.

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    • #32
      Re: Somalia and Arab?

      Originally posted by Younus1 View Post
      This question is more complicated than it sounds and modern day attitudes often do not reflect historical realities. Many Somalis did speak Arabic before colonization and even during colonization newspapers and other official publications were printed in Arabic and either English or Italian- even the manifesto of the SYL. The Somali language contains a large number of words derived from Arabic and not just few random loanwords- the days of the week, educational terms, commercial terms, religious terms, social terms all for the most part derive from Arabic. Even a word such as qabiil, derives from the Arabic qabilah for tribe. Ibn Khaldun's account of the Sultan of Mogadishu and the people he ruled over shows they spoke fluent Arabic. The town of Zayla in the north (the site of the Qiblatayn mosque) received a large number of Arabs from Banu Shams and Banu Hashim. In this regard, there is a close association between Somalia and the Arabian peninsula which predates Islam. Several tribes in Yemen and Oman claim to be descended from peoples inhabiting the Horn of Africa in ancient times.
      Want to elaborate some more on this akhi?
      If you have any questions feel free to PM me!

      Humililty, Sincerity, and the quest for Truth. There is no purpose in life but to seek the pleasure of Allah.
      There is a possibility a female might use this account to read something!

      Comment


      • #33
        Re: Somalia and Arab?

        Originally posted by al-siddiq View Post
        Assalamu Alaikum,

        I was having a discussion on the topic, and I find that many people are confused on what it means to be 'Arab.'

        Being 'Arab' is not about ethnicity or culture. It is about language.

        In Islam we classify a people as Arab if they speak Arabic, simple as that.


        If you look at the region known today as Somalia, Arabic was spread to them very close to after the time of the prophet peace be upon him himself!

        In fact, it wasn't until the British started colonizing the area of Somalia in the 1800s that you started seeing this language called 'Somali' appear.


        Unfortunately, the colonizers have been effective in removing the bond of Arabic, and instead spreading nationalism to the people of Somalia.
        This is why many Somalis today might not call themselves Arab, even though historically they have always been!

        Wa Aalaikum Assalam
        Jazak'Allahu Khayr.

        This is how I understand it too.

        Out of interest, what is the history behind the Somali language? I have seen it written only in 'Latin' script.

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        • #34
          Re: Somalia and Arab?

          Originally posted by Abu 'Abdullaah View Post
          Jazak'Allahu Khayr.

          This is how I understand it too.

          Out of interest, what is the history behind the Somali language? I have seen it written only in 'Latin' script.
          Wayyaka

          Well, based on what I know the British (followed by the Italian) changed the Somali alphabet from Arabic to Latin.

          Somali as an oral language existed for a long time, but it was fragmented. To remove the influence of Arabic and Islam, the colonizers have tried to destroy any remains of Arabic that exist, which is why they made Somali the official language and worked so hard to structure it under their Somalia state.
          If you have any questions feel free to PM me!

          Humililty, Sincerity, and the quest for Truth. There is no purpose in life but to seek the pleasure of Allah.
          There is a possibility a female might use this account to read something!

          Comment


          • #35
            Re: Somalia and Arab?

            Somali existed only as an oral language before they started using English/Latin script to write it down?

            Comment


            • #36
              Re: Somalia and Arab?

              Originally posted by al-siddiq View Post
              Wayyaka

              Well, based on what I know the British (followed by the Italian) changed the Somali alphabet from Arabic to Latin.

              Somali as an oral language existed for a long time, but it was fragmented. To remove the influence of Arabic and Islam, the colonizers have tried to destroy any remains of Arabic that exist, which is why they made Somali the official language and worked so hard to structure it under their Somalia state.
              That is not correct bro/sis. The current Latin script was introduced in the 1970s, as an initiative by the late President Siyad Barre's regime post gaining independence.

              Even before the Arabic script was introduced, there were a variety of traditional scripts certain regions used like the Kadarre, Boroma & Osmanya scripts to name a few, some of which date back to the 1800s. These were only popularized in certain regions and never spread across due to the emphasis of traditions being passed down orally. Largely due to the nomadic nature of the people.

              You attribute a whole lot of influence to the colonial era, some of it is not without base but nonetheless over simplification.
              Last edited by Ni'mah; 20-05-14, 04:49 PM.

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              • #37
                Re: Somalia and Arab?

                Originally posted by F_R View Post
                Lets just agree that you are what you eat.
                In that case I'm. ... a banana



                :banan:
                º•○º○•Sabr... is like swallowing something bitter without showing any distaste on your face.•○º○•º -Imam Junaid

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                • #38
                  Re: Somalia and Arab?

                  Originally posted by al-siddiq View Post
                  Want to elaborate some more on this akhi?
                  Originally posted by al-siddiq View Post
                  Want to elaborate some more on this akhi?
                  http://www.fotothing.com/photos/dbf/...62b8c74a5f.jpg

                  This is a portrait of the Somali Imam and General Imam Ahmed Al Ghazi also known as Ahmed Gurey (the left-handed)

                  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Masjid_al-Qiblatayn

                  A page about the oldest masjid in the world outside the holy cities in the northern port city of Zeila (arguably built in the lifetime of the Prophet SAW as it has two Qiblas- one facing Jerusalem and the other facing Makkah)

                  "The sultan of Mogadishu was Abu Bakr ibn Shaikh Umar. He was Barbara amd spoke the local language of Mogadishu, but he also knew Arabic. Battuta was introduced to the Sultan by the "qadi" Ibn al-Burhãn, an Egyptian. After sending a message via a student to the Sultan, the student returned with a plate containing betel leaves and areca nuts, and a sprinkler that contained Damascas rose water. "

                  ^ An account of The Sultan of Mogadishu by Ibn Battuta

                  http://courses.wcupa.edu/jones/his31...s/16battut.htm

                  In conclusion, Arabic has a long history of use in Somalia. In addition, Ibn Khaldun identifies Somalis as 'Barbars' and their land as Bilad Al Barbar between the Habash and the Zanj. There is a close relationship specifically between Somalia and Yemen. However, the role of later immigration by Quraysh fleeing the chaos of the Abbasid era is not fully known.

                  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barbara_%28region%29
                  Last edited by Younus1; 20-05-14, 08:35 PM.

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                  • #39
                    Re: Somalia and Arab?

                    Originally posted by ZamzamH View Post
                    That is not correct bro/sis. The current Latin script was introduced in the 1970s, as an initiative by the late President Siyad Barre's regime post gaining independence.

                    Even before the Arabic script was introduced, there were a variety of traditional scripts certain regions used like the Kadarre, Boroma & Osmanya scripts to name a few, some of which date back to the 1800s. These were only popularized in certain regions and never spread across due to the emphasis of traditions being passed down orally. Largely due to the nomadic nature of the people.

                    You attribute a whole lot of influence to the colonial era, some of it is not without base but nonetheless over simplification.
                    Officially it was 1970s by the Italians, but it was first being tried in the Early 1900s which is what I remember reading from one of the encyclopedias.

                    Of course what I really wanted to emphasizes was early somali lands, going back to the 900s, 1300s, etc.

                    Originally posted by Younus1 View Post
                    http://www.fotothing.com/photos/dbf/...62b8c74a5f.jpg

                    This is a portrait of the Somali Imam and General Imam Ahmed Al Ghazi also known as Ahmed Gurey (the left-handed)

                    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Masjid_al-Qiblatayn

                    A page about the oldest masjid in the world outside the holy cities in the northern port city of Zeila (arguably built in the lifetime of the Prophet SAW as it has two Qiblas- one facing Jerusalem and the other facing Makkah)

                    "The sultan of Mogadishu was Abu Bakr ibn Shaikh Umar. He was Barbara amd spoke the local language of Mogadishu, but he also knew Arabic. Battuta was introduced to the Sultan by the "qadi" Ibn al-Burhãn, an Egyptian. After sending a message via a student to the Sultan, the student returned with a plate containing betel leaves and areca nuts, and a sprinkler that contained Damascas rose water. "

                    ^ An account of The Sultan of Mogadishu by Ibn Battuta

                    http://courses.wcupa.edu/jones/his31...s/16battut.htm

                    In conclusion, Arabic has a long history of use in Somalia. In addition, Ibn Khaldun identifies Somalis as 'Barbars' and their land as Bilad Al Barbar between the Habash and the Zanj. There is a close relationship specifically between Somalia and Yemen. However, the role of later immigration by Quraysh fleeing the chaos of the Abbasid era is not fully known.

                    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barbara_%28region%29
                    JazakAllahu khayr that's some good stuff!
                    If you have any questions feel free to PM me!

                    Humililty, Sincerity, and the quest for Truth. There is no purpose in life but to seek the pleasure of Allah.
                    There is a possibility a female might use this account to read something!

                    Comment


                    • #40
                      Re: Somalia and Arab?

                      Waleikum Salam

                      Somalis as a group are not a homogeneous group as some people make us to be. Some somalis do have arabic heritage and this is something one can find out by simply looking at their genealogy. We have entire tribes who trace their origins to yemen. The reason why some people call somalis arab is because of the following
                      1) A member of the arab league
                      2) Close proximity to the arab world
                      3) Share some cultural aspects with arabs esp yemenis
                      4) Have arab blood

                      It's also quite common to find somalis refering themselves as being somali rather than african as the later is a term that was unheard of until the europeans came. so you could say that majority of somalis do not see themselves as africans but as somalis and this has nothing to do with being black as most people assume, being african and black are 2 completely different things. Another reason i dont get is why people seem not to react when let say an arab refuses to be called a middle eastern or an african. Both of these words have no relation with the skin colour or ethnicity of the people but why is it connected to skin colour when it comes to somalis or any other ethnic group in africa besides arabs ? Most blacks in africa assume also the word african means black but why should we accept being named by people who came to colonize us isn't it enough that we are called by the name we ourselves choose to go by instead of a foreign one ? Majority of the members of this website are of pakistani/indian/ bengali origin but how many of them know the meaning of the word asian and why do they call themselves asians if they don't know what it means ?

                      I know that some somalis like to claim themselves as being arab even though they don't have any arab blood in them but this is an exaggeration on their behalf but this doesn't negate the fact that some somalis have arab ancestry. This is not specific to somalis as arabs interacted and intermarried with different ethnic groups in the horn of africa and i believe if i am not mistaken that today in eritrea there are descendants of the rashaida tribe (do not know if the spelling is correct ) i was told that they are originally from saudi arabia (i think) by an eritrean brother.

                      Did you know that the somali word for tongue is carab ( never mind the spelling it is pronounced as arab, the letter "c" in somali represents the letter "ayn" in arabic) i've tried searching for the definition of the word arab but to no avail so i was wondering if any of you know what it actually meant as the ones i find are somewhat conflicting. Some of the arab brothers that i got to know actually thought that i was speaking arabic but in a somali dialect. This was their first thought when i first met them and it took quite a deal of convincing from my part, my impression was that i thought that arabs knew that our language was very different from theirs and that arabic was the second language of somalia. Even though they did accept that we spoke different languages they still had this belief that we somalis somewhat forgot our heritage as arabs and due to colonialism that is why we don't speak arabic as a first language. They point to the similarities between somali and arabic and conclude that we once spoke arabic as a first language. One brother told me that when they were learning about members of the arab league in school they were taught all member states spoke arabic and he assumed that we were all arabs. I've also noticed that this is the view held mostly by arab brothers from arab countries and not those who have been brought up in the west.
                      Further examples
                      Days of the week in somali and arabic
                      somali arabic
                      Isniin ithnayn
                      Taladho thalāthāʾ
                      Arabco arbaʿāʾ
                      Khamiis khamīs
                      Jimco jumuʿah
                      Sabti sabt
                      Ahad aḥad

                      So in short the somali language is a mixture of both arabic and somali language and in modern times we've incorporated quite a few words from italian and english pluss indian/urdhu eg words like gaari, roti,
                      Waleikum Salam
                      Last edited by Guled; 21-05-14, 10:17 PM.
                      "O Allah!, Forgive all my sins, great and small, the first and the last,
                      those that are apparent and those that are hidden

                      Comment


                      • #41
                        Re: Somalia and Arab?

                        Its an interesting thing to be learnt,Basically its about how genuinely you can perform something which is fine enough.Through keeping it under discussion i am sure a good thing can be learn from it.
                        When its about learning Arabic, [URL="http://arabicspeakingcourse.com/ways-learn-arabic-language"]Ways to Learn the Arabic Language [/URL]works for sure.

                        Comment


                        • #42
                          Re: Somalia and Arab?



                          Ok

                          Comment


                          • #43
                            Re: Somalia and Arab?

                            Originally posted by Guled View Post
                            Waleikum Salam

                            Somalis as a group are not a homogeneous group as some people make us to be. Some somalis do have arabic heritage and this is something one can find out by simply looking at their genealogy. We have entire tribes who trace their origins to yemen. The reason why some people call somalis arab is because of the following
                            1) A member of the arab league
                            2) Close proximity to the arab world
                            3) Share some cultural aspects with arabs esp yemenis
                            4) Have arab blood

                            It's also quite common to find somalis refering themselves as being somali rather than african as the later is a term that was unheard of until the europeans came. so you could say that majority of somalis do not see themselves as africans but as somalis and this has nothing to do with being black as most people assume, being african and black are 2 completely different things. Another reason i dont get is why people seem not to react when let say an arab refuses to be called a middle eastern or an african. Both of these words have no relation with the skin colour or ethnicity of the people but why is it connected to skin colour when it comes to somalis or any other ethnic group in africa besides arabs ? Most blacks in africa assume also the word african means black but why should we accept being named by people who came to colonize us isn't it enough that we are called by the name we ourselves choose to go by instead of a foreign one ? Majority of the members of this website are of pakistani/indian/ bengali origin but how many of them know the meaning of the word asian and why do they call themselves asians if they don't know what it means ?

                            I know that some somalis like to claim themselves as being arab even though they don't have any arab blood in them but this is an exaggeration on their behalf but this doesn't negate the fact that some somalis have arab ancestry. This is not specific to somalis as arabs interacted and intermarried with different ethnic groups in the horn of africa and i believe if i am not mistaken that today in eritrea there are descendants of the rashaida tribe (do not know if the spelling is correct ) i was told that they are originally from saudi arabia (i think) by an eritrean brother.

                            Did you know that the somali word for tongue is carab ( never mind the spelling it is pronounced as arab, the letter "c" in somali represents the letter "ayn" in arabic) i've tried searching for the definition of the word arab but to no avail so i was wondering if any of you know what it actually meant as the ones i find are somewhat conflicting. Some of the arab brothers that i got to know actually thought that i was speaking arabic but in a somali dialect. This was their first thought when i first met them and it took quite a deal of convincing from my part, my impression was that i thought that arabs knew that our language was very different from theirs and that arabic was the second language of somalia. Even though they did accept that we spoke different languages they still had this belief that we somalis somewhat forgot our heritage as arabs and due to colonialism that is why we don't speak arabic as a first language. They point to the similarities between somali and arabic and conclude that we once spoke arabic as a first language. One brother told me that when they were learning about members of the arab league in school they were taught all member states spoke arabic and he assumed that we were all arabs. I've also noticed that this is the view held mostly by arab brothers from arab countries and not those who have been brought up in the west.
                            Further examples
                            Days of the week in somali and arabic
                            somali arabic
                            Isniin ithnayn
                            Taladho thalāthāʾ
                            Arabco arbaʿāʾ
                            Khamiis khamīs
                            Jimco jumuʿah
                            Sabti sabt
                            Ahad aḥad

                            So in short the somali language is a mixture of both arabic and somali language and in modern times we've incorporated quite a few words from italian and english pluss indian/urdhu eg words like gaari, roti,
                            Waleikum Salam

                            The etymology of the word Arab is that it means 'those who speak clearly' from the Arabic word i'raab.

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                            • #44
                              Re: Somalia and Arab?

                              nvm

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