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Muslims_ They Immigrate, But Do They Assimilate?

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  • #16
    Originally posted by Amir Ali
    Look at the Amish in Pennsylvania and the Jews in Brooklyn, NY - have they integrated or have they assimilated like the Muslims?

    Why do you use those two extremes as examples?

    The Amish's entire society is based on the exclusion of the rest of the world.
    They have never assimilated...those who choose to leave the religion are shunned.

    And as you well know, there are many different groups included in the Jewish in our own faith.

    The Orthodox and Ultra-Orthodox (Haredi) do not assimilate, while the
    Conservative, Reform, and Reconstructionist Jews do.

    I hardly think that you or I would fit into the definition (here at Ummah) of an orthodox Muslim.

    But then neither would most of the Muslims that I have had the pleasure of getting to know.

    We manage to keep our faith and assimilate into the society around us to the degree that we choose.

    Enjoining the good and forbiding that which is evil.

    And Allah (swt) knows best.
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    • #17
      Peace be upon you Mariam,

      Thanks for the post. I agree my examples are extreme and I chose them deliberately - as examples.

      Tom Segel's article above also just focuses on extreme examples and is full of racist bigoted rubbish like:

      "Islamic fundamentalist hatred of all things western is something, which baffles both Europeans and Americans."

      "Islam is more than religion. It is also the politics or Muslims and the platform on which Muslims base their militancy."

      "...militant Islam has reduced every land where it flourishes to that of a Third World country"

      "Regardless of being U.S. born or immigrant, all Muslims in America share similar views on international Muslim politics, the hypocrisy of United States foreign policy, and negative media reports about Muslims."

      "It is the objective of Islam to have all non-believers submit. If they will not do so willingly, they will be forced into submission."

      Spegel tries to blame Muslims for all the misery in the world:

      "It has triggered more warfare than any faith. As a quick exercise try to think of two or three wars raging in the world that do not involve Islam."

      Muslims constitute the largest number of refugees in the world. Muslims are the number one victims of violence, war, and terrorism in the world. Tens of thousands of Muslims are being slaughtered by people who claim to be "Good Christians" - Gee - I'd hate to see what a "Bad Christian" is like.

      Somehow the author believes Tex-Mex is a wonderful assimiliation of the two borders and then goes on to compare that to his racist views on Muslims.

      But seeing that his article is factually full of errors (and "inspired" by Daniel Pipes) - I we can forgive his ignorance. No matter how many times you say "Remember the Alamo" people like Segel will ignore history or try to use it against the very people that fought for Texas.

      Texas was once Mexico. Assimilation? Come again? Many of the settlers that came to Texas came only for the land, never intending to become part of Mexican society. They deliberately broke Mexican laws by evading taxes and bringing slavery into the territory. Amongst the Texans were Tejanos as well as the Mexicans and Anglos who fought together to free Texas but as usual only the "white man" gets all the credit.

      America is a nation of immigrants....However, those who think that all immigrants who come here should forget their culture, religion, heritage and rich traditions and get with the program - or rather "My way or the highway" attitude are delusional. The Irish brought their baggage, the Germans, their baggage, the Italians, their baggage, the Indians and their baggage, The Jews with their baggage, etc, etc, some of it was good and some bad.

      Just putting "Eid Mubarak" on a stamp or coining a new term after us "diaper heads" is not integration or assimilation.

      Muslims too will bring their values. Muslims are not all from one country - they bring different global cultures from China to Tanzania (that's me) into America as well. They bring their religious values as well.

      The early Christians did not assimilate but forced the indigenous population (The "heathens") of the land to submit to their ways. Muslims aren't forcing anyone to "submit".

      Segel spews more trash:

      Islam today is the fastest growing religion in America - But how many Muslims are being forcefully "submitted" to Islam in America?

      Anyways, like those immigrants who came before us - we're here to share our values, our cultures, our traditions and heritage and our religion - and we're not forcing it down on anyone's throat.

      If people like Segel do not like it - they are free to pack up and leave for Israel or whichever "western" country they identify with - because we're here to stay.

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      • #18
        Peace be upon you all,

        As for Muslim participation in the USA with regard to charities and society in general - Here is what Carl S. Dudley writes on findings of a study of 14,301 congregations called "Faith Communities Today" which included mosques as well:

        2. With amazing affinity, Muslim congregations (masjeds) have the same high level of community caring as the churches and synagogues down the street. With their FACT data, the Council on American-Islamic Relations shows that mosques assist families and individuals with cash (90%), counseling (77%), food (77%), prison or jail programs (66%), and clothing (64%). These typically higher rates of support reflect a deep commitment to help people get a foothold in society.


        You can look it up - Nation of Islam has the best record for acohol abuse treatment programs.

        Mosques in the USA also provide other community services including voter registration services:

        Muslims vote - they few in here that feel it is "kufr" to vote are a small minority. Muslims voted in bloc for Bush.

        The last three years two Muslim candidates ran for Congress and one for Governor in California. There are others in Virginia and Michigan who ran also for various posts. There are Muslims in Orange County (Reagan country) who hold positions from police commissioners to the local Chamber of Commerce.

        Schools? Muslims are well educated with college degrees.
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        • #19
          "No Assimilation But Integration"

          On the other hand Islamic fundamentalists know exactly, what they want - "No assimilation, but integration", so Mustafa Yoldas from the alliance of Islamic municipalities, who once judged in a polemic way:

          Virtuosly the 34-year old general physician from Hamburg points out the contradictions of the natives:

          "If we marry a German, we are intermingling their race, if we marry a Turk, we are infiltrating Germany with foreigners.

          If we engage ourselves politically, we infiltrate parties, if we refuse then we are not integrated.

          Head scarfs covering columns of charwomen and factory workers do not disturb anybody, at the school it becomes a nuisance."

          excerpt translated from:
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