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Who told you slavery has been abolished?

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  • #16
    Re: Who told you slavery has been abolished?

    Originally posted by Rainyday View Post
    Always East vs West. The Western world is always to blame and the East can do no wrong.
    .
    Because that is the way it is. And did I say the East can do no wrong? No, certainly not. However, it does not change the fact that the west has throughout the ages stole from the east. Just read up on history sister.

    Originally posted by Rainyday View Post
    I wouldn't call the use of cheap foreign labour slavery as such, maybe exploitation which happens all over the world. Even in Britain, people who work full time are paid such a pittance and struggle to put food on the table, while executives who work for the same company are paid millions. Admittedly, somebody earning minimum wage in Britain has a better life than somebody earning minimum wage in the third world, but the story is the same, companies will pay the minimum they can get away with to maximise profits.
    Who said anything about defining slavery through the wage rate? Again, you are missing the point. It is not about the wage rate, it is about exerting dominance over another and subjecting them to such extremities of harsh conditions. Yes, the people in Britain may earn the minimum wage, but tell me, are their rights not protected? Are not their employers obliged to see to their health and safety at work? Are they not allowed to join unions? That was a poor example for comparison you just put there.


    Originally posted by Rainyday View Post
    You're not forgetting many factories in India and China are owned by Indians and the Chinese themselves. They negotiate prices with their western customers, who want to pay the least possible (what customer doesn't, let's not pretend this is a problem that exists only in the west), then pay themselves a fat sum, and trickle peanuts of a wage down to their fellow citizen workers.
    Yes, and tell me, why are these Indian and Chinese factory owners operating such factories? Where is the demand coming from? The West. Moreover, I am sure the conditions in such factories would not be no way near as harsh if the West did not use their purchasing powers to demand such low prices that it makes it impossible to run a factory without health and safety hazards. Fires are a common thing in factories in Bangladesh because the owners just simply cannot afford its maintenance and upkeep, due to the strict budget in costs they must abide by.

    In short, what could have been a beneficial trade for both parties if the west did not exploit others and abuse their powers is actually a nightmare and a disgusting trade, simply because the West are a disgusting nation of callous, capitalists who abuse other human beings.

    And :jkk: for your opinions sister.

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    • #17
      Re: Who told you slavery has been abolished?

      Originally posted by srahman33 View Post
      Yes, and tell me, why are these Indian and Chinese factory owners operating such factories? Where is the demand coming from? The West. Moreover, I am sure the conditions in such factories would not be no way near as harsh if the West did not use their purchasing powers to demand such low prices that it makes it impossible to run a factory without health and safety hazards. Fires are a common thing in factories in Bangladesh because the owners just simply cannot afford its maintenance and upkeep, due to the strict budget in costs they must abide by.

      In short, what could have been a beneficial trade for both parties if the west did not exploit others and abuse their powers is actually a nightmare and a disgusting trade, simply because the West are a disgusting nation of callous, capitalists who abuse other human beings.
      But it's not as simple as East vs West, let's blame it all on the West. Do you think third world companies who buy their products from the third world are so kind to pay a decent price?

      Even if Western companies pay a decent price, there's no guarantee more money will trickle down to the factory floor workers. Factory owners may still keep the additional $$$. It's not as easy to just say it's the 'west' all the time. Yes the 'west' (i hate that term, what the heck is the 'west' anyways) is part of the problem, but not the sole cause of the problem. People in the 'East' can also be callous capitalists who abuse other human beings, and they do.

      The 'west' gets more blame because obviously it has more purchasing power, and hence, should in theory take more responsibility.

      I buy products from China and we (as a company) do pay a decent price and I spend millions on this one particular factory. I know the guy who owns the company I go through to buy the products, he's loaded, whether he passes on the wealth to the Chinese factory I don't know. I've seen pictures of the factory and it looks pretty smart. It also closes down in July and August for healthy and safety reasons because it gets too hot to manufacture the products safely. Some guy got sent to prison as well for putting razor blades into one of our products lol. Not sure why he did that, maybe had a grudge against the west. I'd like to know how much the workers there are paid and what kind of lives they live.

      We had to have the factory audited for Tesco, because Tesco wouldn't accept to buy the product from us unless the factories we buy from passed some health and safety test. The factory failed for reasons like there was no working computer to track employees working hours, the workers didn't have comfortable chairs to sit on, and people working with machinery didn't have ear plugs. Most health and safety criteria are easy to pass, for example it would cost the factory next to nothing (I know they can afford it) to buy employees comfortable chairs and ear plugs, but the factory owners won't spend the money. I don't see how the whole of the west in general can be blamed for this. We pay a fair price and the money still ends up in the hands of one or two people.

      The countries these factories are in need to take more responsibility for healthy and safety and enforce it more strictly.
      Last edited by Rainyday; 23-03-14, 07:47 PM.

      Comment


      • #18
        Re: Who told you slavery has been abolished?

        Originally posted by Constant Hope View Post
        I don't think you can compare that to slavery. Because unlike slavery, they have an option to quit and go do something else without fear of being killed etc.

        In this modern day and age, I truly do believe there is no such thing as slavery, and there never should be again Inshallah.
        Sadly untrue. Have you not heard of the women who are trafficked and forced into the sex trade? Or kids who are smuggled and forced into physical labour or, as is the case in Saudi Arabia, forced to become jockeys due to their small size? Some are as young as 3 years old.

        All this may be illegal, but it still occurs.
        "Think for yourselves and let others enjoy the privilege to do so too" Essay on Tolerance, Voltaire

        Comment


        • #19
          Re: Who told you slavery has been abolished?

          Originally posted by srahman33 View Post
          This is NOT Islamic slavery. Islamic slavery confers the slave some form of dignity and equity, and the master has obligations towards his slaves; this is western monsters exploiting the weakness of others for their
          Sorry, i just read the title and wrote the posts, just read op now
          www.treasureofthescholars.wordpress.com

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          • #20
            Re: Who told you slavery has been abolished?

            Originally posted by leela View Post
            Sadly untrue. Have you not heard of the women who are trafficked and forced into the sex trade? Or kids who are smuggled and forced into physical labour or, as is the case in Saudi Arabia, forced to become jockeys due to their small size? Some are as young as 3 years old.

            All this may be illegal, but it still occurs.
            Ok, I see your point in regards to that, but all those are completely illegal and would be shut down the instance law authorities found out and try to always do so. I'm on about legally recognised slavery sister but I totally get what you mean.
            I write novels for posts. Beware. :mujahida:

            Ummah Forum seems pretty black and white. Was thinking of offering Skittles as Dawah to introduce a rainbow.

            Comment


            • #21
              Re: Who told you slavery has been abolished?

              Originally posted by Constant Hope View Post
              Ok, I see your point in regards to that, but all those are completely illegal and would be shut down the instance law authorities found out and try to always do so. I'm on about legally recognised slavery sister but I totally get what you mean.
              It's shocking how profitable people trafficking has become. It's as though everything we've learnt through history about the evils of slavery are being forgotten and a new form of it is taking place. It may be underground, and it may be illegal but it's becoming more and more common.
              "Think for yourselves and let others enjoy the privilege to do so too" Essay on Tolerance, Voltaire

              Comment


              • #22
                Re: Who told you slavery has been abolished?

                Originally posted by leela View Post
                It's shocking how profitable people trafficking has become. It's as though everything we've learnt through history about the evils of slavery are being forgotten and a new form of it is taking place. It may be underground, and it may be illegal but it's becoming more and more common.
                It's not shocking at all imo. It's a disease and usually kaffir fuel it because they don't have the same divine wisdom contained in the Qu'ran and followed by Muslims. Those that call themselves Muslims and participate in such disgusting things, I hope the wrath of Allah is brought upon them.

                I can't say as to how common it is becoming, but no true practicing Muslims imo would engage in this ever, and if they did then they're not practicing in the first place I would argue.

                May Allah save us all from such disgusting calamities. Ameen.
                I write novels for posts. Beware. :mujahida:

                Ummah Forum seems pretty black and white. Was thinking of offering Skittles as Dawah to introduce a rainbow.

                Comment


                • #23
                  Re: Who told you slavery has been abolished?

                  Originally posted by srahman33 View Post
                  :salams:

                  It certainly has not. It still happens, just in a different form.
                  The people in China, and India, and Bangladesh, and other such places, who sew our clothes and work in factories to produce the goods we consume in the developed parts of the world, working diligently for a scanty income....You do not call that slavery?

                  Would You Still Buy That Dress After Watching This?

                  N.B: skip between 24 - 24.30 mins.
                  Encouraging people to but Fairtrade products will help improve the quality of life for some of these people. It means paying a bit more, but everyone gets a fair deal from it.

                  http://www.fairtrade.org.uk
                  "Think for yourselves and let others enjoy the privilege to do so too" Essay on Tolerance, Voltaire

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    Re: Who told you slavery has been abolished?

                    Originally posted by alifbahtah View Post

                    These are growing pains it is sad to see but it is what many other countries had to go through through their revolutions in order to gain better working conditions, wages and legislation to protect the people .I pray that in the future these places will improve and have basic human rights, fair/liveable wages,and the ability to practice islam with ease . that when the time comes we are able to support them through our purchases and political support and not become the oppressors.
                    Yep. I only watched part of the video, but there is one word that springs to mind when I look at life in parts of Bangladesh.

                    Dickensian.

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      Re: Who told you slavery has been abolished?

                      I think it's well established that people in certain 3rd world countries work in terrible conditions on low pay, so us westerners can enjoy cheap products.

                      Where the 'blame' for this lies in obviously a grey area. Is the western consumer to blame, the importers, the factory owners, or the governments of these countries for not enforcing decent wages?

                      What's the solution to the problem then?

                      Personally I think it's gonna be an all round effort and everybody must do their part.

                      1 - Governments in 3rd world countries need to introduce a minimum wage (if there isn't one already). If a minimum wage exists, they need to make sure it's also a living wage, and it's enforced. It's worth noting minimum wage in the UK isn't actually a living wage that gives staff a decent standard of living.

                      2 - This would prevent factory owners exploiting staff to maximize profit margins, although it may push up the price of their products and customers may go elsewhere (i.e. to another country where such a law isn't enforced).

                      3 - I think western distributors, suppliers and importers need to be made responsible for ensuring they buy from factories that meet certain standards, i.e factories with a certain standard of working conditions that also pay their factory a fair wage. I think this should somehow be made law (not sure how) to stop western companies buying from the most deprived and exploited factories. This is also likely to lead to increased costs.

                      4 - Raise awareness amongst western consumers and encourage them to buy fair trade products.

                      Dunno what else. I've not studied economics or world trade so don't really know how these things work.

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        Re: Who told you slavery has been abolished?

                        Originally posted by Rainyday View Post
                        I think it's well established that people in certain 3rd world countries work in terrible conditions on low pay, so us westerners can enjoy cheap products.

                        Where the 'blame' for this lies in obviously a grey area. Is the western consumer to blame, the importers, the factory owners, or the governments of these countries for not enforcing decent wages?

                        What's the solution to the problem then?

                        Personally I think it's gonna be an all round effort and everybody must do their part.

                        1 - Governments in 3rd world countries need to introduce a minimum wage (if there isn't one already). If a minimum wage exists, they need to make sure it's also a living wage, and it's enforced. It's worth noting minimum wage in the UK isn't actually a living wage that gives staff a decent standard of living.

                        2 - This would prevent factory owners exploiting staff to maximize profit margins, although it may push up the price of their products and customers may go elsewhere (i.e. to another country where such a law isn't enforced).

                        3 - I think western distributors, suppliers and importers need to be made responsible for ensuring they buy from factories that meet certain standards, i.e factories with a certain standard of working conditions that also pay their factory a fair wage. I think this should somehow be made law (not sure how) to stop western companies buying from the most deprived and exploited factories. This is also likely to lead to increased costs.

                        4 - Raise awareness amongst western consumers and encourage them to buy fair trade products.

                        Dunno what else. I've not studied economics or world trade so don't really know how these things work.
                        Think your mistaken

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          Re: Who told you slavery has been abolished?

                          Originally posted by Mohamed12 View Post
                          Think your mistaken
                          How?

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            Re: Who told you slavery has been abolished?

                            Originally posted by srahman33 View Post
                            :salams:

                            It certainly has not. It still happens, just in a different form.
                            The people in China, and India, and Bangladesh, and other such places, who sew our clothes and work in factories to produce the goods we consume in the developed parts of the world, working diligently for a scanty income....You do not call that slavery?

                            Would You Still Buy That Dress After Watching This?

                            N.B: skip between 24 - 24.30 mins.
                            I haven't watched the documentary, but I probably will later. As a person who has a clothing business and making clothes myself, I can just say that this is physically very hard work. It's hard on the hands and wrist, neck and back, and also on the eyes due to straining to keep stitch lines straight and such. I often think of the people who work so many days without adequate breaks. I can't imagine it. I've spent 10-hour days standing and sewing to meet deadlines, and it's excruciating. I have priced clothing manufacturing in the US. You can easily have a children's pant made for $4 and a dress for $6. Why is there not enough profit in that? Many of the companies who use overseas factories are selling name-brand clothing for outrageous prices. Can you imagine the profit margin? Anyway, I don't fault people for wanting to make money, and I understand how it works to an extent, but I really feel for these workers. It breaks my heart.

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              Re: Who told you slavery has been abolished?

                              Originally posted by Sister_2009 View Post
                              I haven't watched the documentary, but I probably will later. As a person who has a clothing business and making clothes myself, I can just say that this is physically very hard work. It's hard on the hands and wrist, neck and back, and also on the eyes due to straining to keep stitch lines straight and such. I often think of the people who work so many days without adequate breaks. I can't imagine it. I've spent 10-hour days standing and sewing to meet deadlines, and it's excruciating. I have priced clothing manufacturing in the US. You can easily have a children's pant made for $4 and a dress for $6. Why is there not enough profit in that? Many of the companies who use overseas factories are selling name-brand clothing for outrageous prices. Can you imagine the profit margin? Anyway, I don't fault people for wanting to make money, and I understand how it works to an extent, but I really feel for these workers. It breaks my heart.
                              From memory, I remember that there were a few bright notes in the film:

                              1. The workforce are slowly unionising.
                              2. The minimum wage has doubled in the past few years.

                              Hopefully these trends will continue.

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                Re: Who told you slavery has been abolished?

                                Originally posted by iwasjimmyjimmy View Post
                                From memory, I remember that there were a few bright notes in the film:

                                1. The workforce are slowly unionising.
                                2. The minimum wage has doubled in the past few years.

                                Hopefully these trends will continue.
                                Thank you for the quick summary. I'm happy to know there are improvements being made.

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