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Who told you slavery has been abolished?

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  • Who told you slavery has been abolished?

    :salams:

    It certainly has not. It still happens, just in a different form.
    The people in China, and India, and Bangladesh, and other such places, who sew our clothes and work in factories to produce the goods we consume in the developed parts of the world, working diligently for a scanty income....You do not call that slavery?

    Would You Still Buy That Dress After Watching This?

    N.B: skip between 24 - 24.30 mins.
    Last edited by Morose; 23-03-14, 01:51 AM.

  • #2
    Re: Who told you slavery has been abolished?

    You dont believe in islamic slavery???
    www.treasureofthescholars.wordpress.com

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    • #3
      Re: Who told you slavery has been abolished?

      I don't think you can compare that to slavery. Because unlike slavery, they have an option to quit and go do something else without fear of being killed etc.

      In this modern day and age, I truly do believe there is no such thing as slavery, and there never should be again Inshallah.
      I write novels for posts. Beware. :mujahida:

      Ummah Forum seems pretty black and white. Was thinking of offering Skittles as Dawah to introduce a rainbow.

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      • #4
        Re: Who told you slavery has been abolished?

        You clearly know nothing of politics and societal issues and poverty and the effects and ills affecting countries globally. Do not falsify people's sufferings.

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        • #5
          Re: Who told you slavery has been abolished?

          Originally posted by sultania View Post
          You clearly know nothing of politics and societal issues and poverty and the effects and ills affecting countries globally. Do not falsify people's sufferings.
          Who you talking to?
          I write novels for posts. Beware. :mujahida:

          Ummah Forum seems pretty black and white. Was thinking of offering Skittles as Dawah to introduce a rainbow.

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: Who told you slavery has been abolished?

            People need to see the impact of purchasing decisions, that they can have a greater impact on others indirectly by buying things that are ethically made,fairly traded, or sustainable. Often this type of indirect charity is more helpful to communities than direct charity. That is not to say you should not give charity directly, it has its place but we should be looking to solve the problem instead of treating the symptoms.

            people in general(including muslims) don't know the impact of purchasing things and what terms such as "sustainable" or "fair trade" or "ethical purchasing" really means.

            When you show someone two identical products one says "fair trade" the other doesn't and the fair trade is 1.5X the price people tend to see just the price and go for the cheaper product. They don't see their dollar going to people who would be getting much less $$ for their crops if they chose the cheaper item, they don't see people having to send their kids to work instead of going to school or playing because the wage the parents get paid isn't enough, only the $$ figure is what we see.

            These are growing pains it is sad to see but it is what many other countries had to go through through their revolutions in order to gain better working conditions, wages and legislation to protect the people .I pray that in the future these places will improve and have basic human rights, fair/liveable wages,and the ability to practice islam with ease . that when the time comes we are able to support them through our purchases and political support and not become the oppressors.

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            • #7
              Re: Who told you slavery has been abolished?

              Originally posted by Arru34 View Post
              You dont believe in islamic slavery???
              This is NOT Islamic slavery. Islamic slavery confers the slave some form of dignity and equity, and the master has obligations towards his slaves; this is western monsters exploiting the weakness of others for their own gain. Do NOT compare this to Islamic slavery.




              Originally posted by Constant Hope View Post
              I don't think you can compare that to slavery.
              Did you even watch the documentary?

              Originally posted by Constant Hope View Post
              Because unlike slavery, they have an option to quit and go do something else without fear of being killed etc.
              No, no they do not. You think slavery is about confinement and a loss of independence? Slavery is not so narrow in definition: slavery is simply when one being or entity subjects another to its control and exercises power and dominance simply because it can - it's all about power. These people, they are slaves. They cannot just quit, because then they would be without an income and would fall even further into poverty because they are weak - and it is this weakness that the west is exploiting, and that is the essence of slavery in this context.

              In the documentary, when there appeared signs of the building's instability, before it collapsed, it was evacuated for a brief interval; and then, all of the bank workers and other 'high status' job holders were not required to resume their work - they were given leave; but the proletariat were ordered to return to their work; men with batons came by and forced them into the factory which led to many deaths, and many injuries. Several of them had their limbs amputated.
              Women also report of being given excessive amounts of work that is just impossible to complete in the time given; and, when they fail or make a mistake, they are slapped across the face or the back and called and spoken to in such coarse, vulgar, abusive language. And if you think this is not slavery, then you need to broaden your perception of the concept instead of looking at it in the most insular manner as you appear to do so right now.

              Originally posted by Constant Hope View Post
              In this modern day and age, I truly do believe there is no such thing as slavery, and there never should be again In sha Allah.
              Well aren't you hopeful! Tell me, when the main exporters of manufactured goods such as China and India become prosperous enough to refuse such work, who will take their place? It is not so far fetched to conceive that Africa will then become the victim of this disgusting trade.




              Originally posted by sultania View Post
              You clearly know nothing of politics and societal issues and poverty and the effects and ills affecting countries globally. Do not falsify people's sufferings.
              Who are you speaking to?

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              • #8
                Re: Who told you slavery has been abolished?

                Akhi, listed, i'm approaching this from the perspective of how slavery was. When they'd be beat, and only given scraps to eat. I'm talking about African slavery in the USA only abolished very recently. So, this isn't the same slavery as you had. I know exactly what you're trying to say. This is more an economic form of exploitation and slavery and i'm very aware of how they trap people in, but it's not the ancient master/slave relationship is all I wanted to point out. By your own admission it doesn't meet that status.
                I write novels for posts. Beware. :mujahida:

                Ummah Forum seems pretty black and white. Was thinking of offering Skittles as Dawah to introduce a rainbow.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: Who told you slavery has been abolished?

                  Originally posted by Constant Hope View Post
                  Akhi, listed, i'm approaching this from the perspective of how slavery was. When they'd be beat, and only given scraps to eat. I'm talking about African slavery in the USA only abolished very recently. So, this isn't the same slavery as you had. I know exactly what you're trying to say. This is more an economic form of exploitation and slavery and i'm very aware of how they trap people in, but it's not the ancient master/slave relationship is all I wanted to point out. By your own admission it doesn't meet that status.
                  But brother, brother, here is where you go wrong: you define slavery by the African slave trade, and that is not correct; if you read my original post, this is what I said:

                  Originally posted by srahman33 View Post

                  It certainly has not. It still happens, just in a different form.
                  In a different form. Now certainly, the slavery that was of Africans was relatively much greater in severity and harshness; but you still cannot deny that this form of exploitation constitutes slavery. It does, and I will tell you how: the west has power over the developing or less developed countries; using this power, they exploit them for their own gains; the LDCs concede to the west whatever they demand, because they have no other choice: and herein lies the master-slave relationship, whereby the west exploit the weak simply because they can.

                  That is why I said it takes place in a different form - a much more subtle form; however, it does not change the fact that this is still slavery and therefore wrong.

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                  • #10
                    Re: Who told you slavery has been abolished?

                    Look, I totally get where you're coming from, but the very fact this slavery is open and debateable to here and there points is what annoys me myself. I know this is classes as economic slavery, but it's not as clear cut as the original slave trade where it was much more rigid and easy to define as a clear cute master/slave relationship.

                    Economic slavery is a difficult thing to nail down, mainly because those that argue against it will point out the economic benefit gained by the people who buy things from there and do increase development, otherwise they'd be permanently in poverty, and others say how only the 'elite' benefit. Basically, it all boils down to the good ol' Marxist vs. Free Market type debates. Both have their own merits here and there, unlike old slavery which was clear cut.
                    I write novels for posts. Beware. :mujahida:

                    Ummah Forum seems pretty black and white. Was thinking of offering Skittles as Dawah to introduce a rainbow.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: Who told you slavery has been abolished?

                      Originally posted by Constant Hope View Post
                      Look, I totally get where you're coming from, but the very fact this slavery is open and debateable to here and there points is what annoys me myself. I know this is classes as economic slavery, but it's not as clear cut as the original slave trade where it was much more rigid and easy to define as a clear cute master/slave relationship.

                      Economic slavery is a difficult thing to nail down, mainly because those that argue against it will point out the economic benefit gained by the people who buy things from there and do increase development, otherwise they'd be permanently in poverty, and others say how only the 'elite' benefit. Basically, it all boils down to the good ol' Marxist vs. Free Market type debates. Both have their own merits here and there, unlike old slavery which was clear cut.
                      Except, you are wrong there. I have studied economics enough to understand the arguments of both sides; but this isn't the same. Yes, there are many benefits of FDI and outsourcing, but does that mean the foreign investor has to subject the workers to such harsh conditions? No, they do not. For example, USA uses factory workers in Bangladesh to produce their goods; they do not care about the safety of the workers, they do not carry out health and safety checks, they do not pay nearly enough for proper maintenance of buildings and facilities, and they demand the same price as 10 years ago as if they had never heard of the concept of inflation... And yet they make substantial profits from the trade - a few extra dollars spent on the factors aforementioned would not reduce their profits, and yet they still do not make such provisions: why? Because they simply do not care to. They do not care that these are human beings suffering, just as long as they can squeeze them like grapes, they'll take the wine. And that is slavery.

                      Oh, and when there is a major catastrophe such as the building collapse in Dhaka last year, the big brands distance themselves. admit no blame, provide no compensation, and terminate any future customs without a single though!
                      Please do not look at the world through grey eyes. Anyway, thank you for your thoughts.
                      Last edited by Morose; 23-03-14, 06:35 PM.

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                      • #12
                        Re: Who told you slavery has been abolished?

                        You probably already know about the excuses they used bro. They don't own the buildings etc. They just pay them for the orders they make; thus have no 'direct' influence. I totally get where your coming from, I do but the situations been like this for ages because consumers themselves aren't changing.
                        I write novels for posts. Beware. :mujahida:

                        Ummah Forum seems pretty black and white. Was thinking of offering Skittles as Dawah to introduce a rainbow.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: Who told you slavery has been abolished?

                          Originally posted by Constant Hope View Post
                          You probably already know about the excuses they used bro. They don't own the buildings etc. They just pay them for the orders they make; thus have no 'direct' influence. I totally get where your coming from, I do but the situations been like this for ages because consumers themselves aren't changing.
                          Yes, I mean don't get me wrong, about a year ago I was of the exact way of thinking as you; as a student of Economics, I took the economist's approach to everything in life; but then I soon realised that by this approach, I neglected paying any consideration to other factors. I saw it as, well, if the workers are making a living, away from their rice fields and their poverty-stricken villages, if foreign investors are injecting money into the economy and increasing economic activity, if people are seeing an improvement in their living standards, then what is the problem? But this is just a one-sided way of thinking.
                          Now of course I do not pretend that economics and the social sciences do not provide fundamental insights into the world and assist in developments, but they are not to be relied on solely; when you combine such studies with Islamic teachings as well as your own morals and scruples, you get a much bigger and more informed picture.

                          Anyway, :jkk: for your thoughts bro.

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                          • #14
                            Re: Who told you slavery has been abolished?

                            Slavery is also alive and well in the United States.

                            Prisoners are often used as a labour workforce who don't have any choice but to comply and work when they are told to. The private contracting of prisoners just gives greater incentive to lock up people or keep people locked up for longer. That may explain why the US has a disproportionately high number of men in prison.

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                            • #15

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