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  • Muslims and alcohol in the UK

    I am a non muslim who gave up drinking over a year ago. My main reason for quitting was learning about the health risks. All of the fights and trouble you see in towns every weekend are mostly caused by alcohol, and I've met muslims who drink alcohol on a night out and then go home to their wives and preach about the evils of the British drinking culture. Double standards!

    I still go out to the pubs and restaurants and have learnt that you don't need alcohol to have a good time. Although even today I still face pressure from people who can't understand why I don't drink when I go out. We need to change this culture of drinking in the UK and I feel the only people who have the numbers to make a difference are the muslims.

    I would really love to see alcohol banned in the UK and I do not understand why British muslims have not got together to form a movement to make this a reality. I do not feel banning alcohol would destroy the British pub culture, if anything it would make pubs safer environments and may encourage new patrons to attend. There are non alcoholic beers that you can buy that taste exactly the same as there alcholic counterparts.

    People worried that smoking would destroy pubs and it hasn't, it's encouraged new non smoking patrons to attend.

    Even if muslims do not want to attend non alcoholic pubs I hope that they can see the benefits of helping us non muslims rid ourselfs of alcohol.

  • #2
    Re: Muslims and alcohol in the UK

    Non Muslims already see us as forcing our way of life on them. I doubt the government would ban alcohol, they encourage it.

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    • #3
      Re: Muslims and alcohol in the UK

      Originally posted by davidpof View Post
      I am a non muslim who gave up drinking over a year ago. My main reason for quitting was learning about the health risks. All of the fights and trouble you see in towns every weekend are mostly caused by alcohol, and I've met muslims who drink alcohol on a night out and then go home to their wives and preach about the evils of the British drinking culture. Double standards!

      I still go out to the pubs and restaurants and have learnt that you don't need alcohol to have a good time. Although even today I still face pressure from people who can't understand why I don't drink when I go out. We need to change this culture of drinking in the UK and I feel the only people who have the numbers to make a difference are the muslims.

      I would really love to see alcohol banned in the UK and I do not understand why British muslims have not got together to form a movement to make this a reality. I do not feel banning alcohol would destroy the British pub culture, if anything it would make pubs safer environments and may encourage new patrons to attend. There are non alcoholic beers that you can buy that taste exactly the same as there alcholic counterparts.

      People worried that smoking would destroy pubs and it hasn't, it's encouraged new non smoking patrons to attend.

      Even if muslims do not want to attend non alcoholic pubs I hope that they can see the benefits of helping us non muslims rid ourselfs of alcohol.
      Banning alcohol not affecting pub culture...really?

      They would not be pubs, they would be cafes.

      Reading between the lines, you had a drink problem, and you stopped, and now you want to ban it for everyone else. I could be wrong on this.

      I point you to the success of prohibition in the 1930's in US.

      Even further back didn't Oliver Cromwell try to ban it?

      Helping to reduce it, yes, fine. Banning it is never going to happen.

      I'm a non Muslim by the way also, just squatting here to learn a bit.

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      • #4
        Re: Muslims and alcohol in the UK

        Originally posted by Bint Muaawiya View Post
        Non Muslims already see us as forcing our way of life on them. I doubt the government would ban alcohol, they encourage it.
        I would say they discourage it slightly by increasing the taxes on it, but that's just an opinion. They like the taxes, that's for sure though.

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        • #5
          Re: Muslims and alcohol in the UK

          Originally posted by Bint Muaawiya View Post
          Non Muslims already see us as forcing our way of life on them. I doubt the government would ban alcohol, they encourage it.
          I grew up in a mostly muslim community and never felt oppressed by them. I wouldn't eat a bacon sandwich in front of a muslim, no muslim has ever told me not to, I just do it out of politeness. These days I avoid pork because after watching documentaries I've learnt it's actually very bad for you.

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          • #6
            Re: Muslims and alcohol in the UK

            Originally posted by iwasjimmyjimmy View Post
            Banning alcohol not affecting pub culture...really?

            They would not be pubs, they would be cafes.

            Reading between the lines, you had a drink problem, and you stopped, and now you want to ban it for everyone else. I could be wrong on this.

            I point you to the success of prohibition in the 1930's in US.

            Even further back didn't Oliver Cromwell try to ban it?

            Helping to reduce it, yes, fine. Banning it is never going to happen.

            I'm a non Muslim by the way also, just squatting here to learn a bit.
            A pub has a different vibe to a cafe. Cafe's usually have uncomfortable seating / bright lights whereas a pub has a whole different atmosphere. I never go to cafe's but I do go to pubs, I just don't drink alcohol in them.

            It depends what you class as a drink problem. I used to go out on a Saturday night and drink 5 or 6 pints and maybe a few shots, that was my alcohol intake for the week.

            I do not want to become a muslim, I just feel that as a society we could benefit from some of their laws.
            Last edited by davidpof; 10-11-13, 08:05 PM.

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            • #7
              Re: Muslims and alcohol in the UK

              I agree with Bint M on this one.

              As for increasing tax on alcohol it was just to get more money it wasn't done as a deterrent besides, switching the pubs to 24 hour opening is clearly encouraging the drinking culture, possibly even the binge drinking culture. I think the government only pay lip service to the health costs of the problem but deep down, they must derive some benefit from trying to dumb down the country by encouraging the drinks, gambling and loan shark *cough* I mean pay day loans industry. Perhaps they find it much easier to pass newer more oppressively Orwellian laws whilst the people are bogged down by debt and the societal problems that are exacerbated by such tactics so keeping people on a 'buzz' of drunken oblivion means they are distracted, disorganised and not in a position to force through any change that would benefit them.

              Originally posted by Bint Muaawiya View Post
              Non Muslims already see us as forcing our way of life on them. I doubt the government would ban alcohol, they encourage it.
              *Now I await the arrival of Abu M to give his two cents about how it's not Muslims who resolve such societal ills, it's Islam* (no Neelu can't be bothered to give that speech right now so I'm passing the baton to someone else).
              The Lyme Disease pandemic: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z5u73ME4sVU

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              • #8
                Re: Muslims and alcohol in the UK

                :salams:

                I know this is off-topic. But there is a hadeeth about avoiding places where Alcohol is being passed around. Avoid such places or else you might fall into the sin of drinking.

                Al-Tirmidhi Hadith 2776 Narrated by Anas ibn Malik
                Allah's Messenger (saws) invoked the curse of Allah on ten people in connection with wine: the wine-presser, the one who has it pressed, the one who drinks it, the one who conveys it, the one to whom it is conveyed, the one who serves it, the one who sells it, the one who benefits from the price paid for it, the one who buys it, and the one for whom it is bought.

                Al-Tirmidhi Hadith 4477 Narrated by Jabir ibn Abdullah
                The Prophet (saws) said, "He who believes in Allah and the Last Day must not sit at a cloth (table or gathering) where wine is being circulated."
                Sunan of Abu-Dawood Hadith 3765 Narrated by Abdullah ibn Umar
                The Messenger of Allah (saws) forbade the sitting at a cloth (table or gathering) on which wine is drunk.


                May Allah protect us from that.
                Last edited by ceeri_sista; 10-11-13, 08:59 PM.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: Muslims and alcohol in the UK

                  Originally posted by davidpof View Post
                  A pub has a different vibe to a cafe. Cafe's usually have uncomfortable seating / bright lights whereas a pub has a whole different atmosphere. I never go to cafe's but I do go to pubs, I just don't drink alcohol in them.

                  It depends what you class as a drink problem. I used to go out on a Saturday night and drink 5 or 6 pints and maybe a few shots, that was my alcohol intake for the week.

                  I do not want to become a Muslim, I just feel that as a society we could benefit from some of their laws.
                  I'm pretty sure pub/bar culture doesn't exist without alcohol, if you go to a country without alcohol, there are no pubs, there are cafes. If nobody drank, no-one would accompany the drinkers.

                  I've pretty much stopped binge drinking these days, but I still take the odd one or two with meals and such.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: Muslims and alcohol in the UK

                    Originally posted by neelu View Post
                    I agree with Bint M on this one.

                    As for increasing tax on alcohol it was just to get more money it wasn't done as a deterrent besides, switching the pubs to 24 hour opening is clearly encouraging the drinking culture, possibly even the binge drinking culture. I think the government only pay lip service to the health costs of the problem but deep down, they must derive some benefit from trying to dumb down the country by encouraging the drinks, gambling and loan shark *cough* I mean pay day loans industry. Perhaps they find it much easier to pass newer more oppressively Orwellian laws whilst the people are bogged down by debt and the societal problems that are exacerbated by such tactics so keeping people on a 'buzz' of drunken oblivion means they are distracted, disorganised and not in a position to force through any change that would benefit them.



                    *Now I await the arrival of Abu M to give his two cents about how it's not Muslims who resolve such societal ills, it's Islam* (no Neelu can't be bothered to give that speech right now so I'm passing the baton to someone else).
                    Well, I am not as cynical as you on this. I do think Tony Blair did have a vision that if we had longer opening hours, we would all turn into French people sipping fine whatever, instead of doing what davidpof used to do, and try to throw 15-20 units down his throat in 3 hours. I did the same for years, so I'm not criticizing him.

                    When opening times were short, people rushed to drink, so it seemed logical that we should spread it out. Complete failure though, people just drunk more.

                    Some people don't realise that drinking laws were so strict only since the first world war, where it was put in place as an emergency measure to help weapon production. Before that, it was always unlimited as far as I know.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: Muslims and alcohol in the UK

                      Alcohol will never get banned in the UK....look at what an epic failure Prohibition was in America in the 1920's...
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                      • #12
                        Re: Muslims and alcohol in the UK

                        Alcohol cannot be banned in land where peoples social relations are rather tightly tied with alcohol consumption and there's no "higher force" to make them quit drinking. If you studied islamic history and about the time drinking was banned, you will realize that the society was being prepared for the ban. The people had given their hearts to Allah sawwa ta'aalaa and to the prophet, and when the banning was revealed almost everyone just stopped right there. There is no "reason" to give up alcohol consumption in non God fearing people.
                        6:62 "Then are they restored unto Allah, their Lord, the Just. Surely His is the judgment. And He is the most swift of reckoners."

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: Muslims and alcohol in the UK

                          To the OP.

                          Well done on quitting alcohol. I applaud you. You're right, of course you can have a good time without alcohol. As a freelance contractor, I changed jobs very frequently. I told everyone in advance that I won't be going to the pub (they already knew that) and that instead, on my last day lunch would be on me. I then had food brought in by a catering company. Everybody loved it despite no alcohol. This is proof that it's possible to eat and enjoy yourself without alcohol. Unfortunately that's where the good news stops.

                          Alcohol addiction & abuse & dependency is not just a British problem, it's not even a European or American problem, it's not even a western problem. It's a global problem. Most of the world revolves around drinking time. Prohibition has it's problems as we all know about cos the problem goes underground. Saudi Arabia is the only dry country I know of, but where there's a will there's a way. I've heard of expats in their private compounds drinking imported liquor, everyone knows it happens.

                          Sorry, I don't have an answer.
                          Last edited by chameleon; 11-11-13, 12:05 AM.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: Muslims and alcohol in the UK

                            I'm pretty sure pub/bar culture doesn't exist without alcohol, if you go to a country without alcohol, there are no pubs, there are cafes. If nobody drank, no-one would accompany the drinkers.

                            I've pretty much stopped binge drinking these days, but I still take the odd one or two with meals and such.
                            Pubs are important because traditionally they are central to the community. The fact that they serve alcohol means muslims are excluded, that is not good for community cohesion, especially if you live in an area with a large muslim population. Non muslims will not go to a local mosque because it's not neutral, they see it as a religous establishment. I don't understand why you think it would be so alien if pubs didn't serve alcohol. Not everybody in the pub is drinking alcohol. Some people go to pubs during the day and drink soft drinks. I go to the pubs on the weekend and drink soft drinks, if my friends go out of town the designated driver drinks soft drinks.

                            Look at how many people have given up smoking. 50 years ago smoking was culturally accepted in Britain, now it is almost taboo because people are aware of the health risks. Smoking is more addictive than alcohol. Maybe muslims don't want to seen to be imposing on British culture but British culture is not something that is stagnant, it evolves with time and muslims (or any other group of people) can influence its direction. Like we did with smoking, people just need a nudge in the right direction.

                            Alcohol addiction & abuse & dependency is not just a British problem, it's not even a European or American problem, it's not even a western problem. It's a global problem. Most of the world revolves around drinking time. Prohibition has it's problems as we all know about cos the problem goes underground. Saudi Arabia is the only dry country I know of, but where there's a will there's a way. I've heard of expats in their private compounds drinking imported liquor, everyone knows it happens.
                            Prohibition was too far ahead of it's time. Back then people didn't know the dangers of alcohol. We are in a different time now, a time where education about these subjects is just a mouse click away. Of course there are always going to be drinkers, but the number would be far lower if it was outlawed.

                            Look at Saudi Arabia, it has the lowest crime rate in the world. You can't stop people drinking in their own homes, same as you can't stop them smoking, what I'm calling for is for it to be outlawed in pubs.

                            I'm hopefully going to be working in Indonesia next year. It's an Islamic country so I will get to see how people live without alcohol.

                            Alcohol cannot be banned in land where peoples social relations are rather tightly tied with alcohol consumption and there's no "higher force" to make them quit drinking. If you studied islamic history and about the time drinking was banned, you will realize that the society was being prepared for the ban. The people had given their hearts to Allah sawwa ta'aalaa and to the prophet, and when the banning was revealed almost everyone just stopped right there. There is no "reason" to give up alcohol consumption in non God fearing people.
                            Western society is obsessed with health and youth, if our government did more to educate us (like it has with smoking) then maybe more people would quit.
                            Last edited by davidpof; 11-11-13, 02:24 AM.

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                            • #15
                              Re: Muslims and alcohol in the UK

                              I think you place a lot of emphasis on the problem being alcohol in pubs but last I heard pubs are closing down up and down the country at an alarming rate so doesn't that indicate that the drinking problem is not limited to pubs>?

                              Anyway I think the collective will isn't there to ban alcohol neither governmentally nor societally. Even people who develop liver diseases and require transplants often refuse to give up drinking it seems like alcohol is somehow linked to the national culture and identity that the average Brit doesn't want to become excluded from regardless of the cost to his/her health or relationships- that's why it's an addiction, but worse, it's a legally sanctioned addiction that's ingrained in the cultural identity of the nation.

                              As others have said, Muslims were prepared for the ban because in giving up drinking they understood they were serving a higher purpose (and those who didn't give up were punished under Islamic law anyway which would never happen here)... anyway over time it became the cultural norm among Muslims to not be drinking at all and a rarity to come across Muslims who did drink. My point is that Islamic beliefs are the foundation for a Muslims desire to keep away from alcohol in spite of the societal pressures to incline towards it so we can't separate our avoidance of alcohol from that context which may explain why you haven't come across Muslim groups attempting to influence non Muslims about the risks of alcohol.
                              The Lyme Disease pandemic: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z5u73ME4sVU

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