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I'm afraid of turning into an atheist eventually...

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  • #61
    Re: I'm afraid of turning into an atheist eventually...

    Originally posted by .Hajar. View Post
    well..where did the first person come from?
    There was no "first person". When homo sapiens first became recognisable as we are today, they would still also retain recognisable features of H. Erectus or H. Heidelbergensis, for instance. As we traced their history back in time they, in turn, would begin to show traces of H.Habilis or Australopithecus Africanus. And so on over hundreds of millions of years, back to the first organic life on earth. This is all demonstrable to anyone willing to look at the evidence. It is not speculation or assertion. It looks likely that life may have originated around hot, deep-sea, iron-sulphur vents but we cannot be certain yet. This hypothesis may turn out to be valid or it may not. We hypothesise, observe, experiment, discuss, examine and test and only then give tacit approval to an idea. That still doesn't mean that we write it down in a special book, stop looking for answers and forbid any further questions though!

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    • #62
      Re: I'm afraid of turning into an atheist eventually...

      Originally posted by Speculation
      That one clearly went over your head.

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      • #63
        Re: I'm afraid of turning into an atheist eventually...

        Originally posted by Speculation
        Considering the sophisticated biochemical and physiological make up of all species on the planet, well yes, I do find certain beauty and intricate design (God, I hate the term 'intelligent design' or 'creationism').

        Absolute nothingness > Dead Space > Dead Space > Dead Space > Big Bang > Universe > Matter, elements, compounds > Stars > Planets > Microbes > Plants > Life > Humans

        What logic and reason proves the above? What logic and reason suggest our existence effectively manifested out of thin air like magic? I'm curious.

        Either way, you are still taking a leap of faith as an 'atheist'.
        We are free to find complexity and beauty in the universe without ascribing it to the supernatural.

        You are making the mistake (as do all religionists) of assuming that we know what was prior to the Big Bang. We do not. We do not know whether it was "Absolute nothingness", "Dead Space", quantum fluctuations, another shrinking universe, or the nasal expulsion of the Great Green Arkleseizure! We do not know. What happened after the Big Bang is supported by evidence, to a greater or lesser extent. Even where the evidence is thin and the hypotheses tentative, it is still more logical and reasonable than "god did it!".

        Atheists can think what they like about the origins of the universe as long as it does not involve gods. That is what it means. It's like saying that Muslims must believe that Jesus is the Son of God because they are religious. Most atheists, however, tend to require a level of confidence provided by evidence. As we quite happily say "we don't know" regarding the pre-Big Bang, there is no "leap of faith" required. That kind of thing is for the religious.

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        • #64
          Re: I'm afraid of turning into an atheist eventually...

          Originally posted by Speculation
          No, that's agnosticism.
          Agnosticism means you aren't sure about whether god exists or not.

          I am an atheist, and there is nowhere near enough evidence for me to believe in god.

          As it is up to the religious to prove it, and they have not proved it to my satisfaction. I don't believe god exists. My lack of belief is clear, therefore I am Atheist.

          However, that doesn't mean I have to believe in any particular current scientific theory, I can believe that the answer when it comes will be scientific in nature, not supernatural.

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          • #65
            Re: I'm afraid of turning into an atheist eventually...

            Originally posted by Speculation
            Considering the sophisticated biochemical and physiological make up of all species on the planet, well yes, I do find certain beauty and intricate design (God, I hate the term 'intelligent design' or 'creationism').

            Absolute nothingness > Dead Space > Dead Space > Dead Space > Big Bang > Universe > Matter, elements, compounds > Stars > Planets > Microbes > Plants > Life > Humans

            What logic and reason proves the above? What logic and reason suggest our existence effectively manifested out of thin air like magic? I'm curious.

            Either way, you are still taking a leap of faith as an 'atheist'.
            Without being too specific, the "proof" that is claimed by the various physicist about the first 6 or 7 sections of your chain is mathematical proofs, backed up my certain measurements using telescopes and such. The maths is beyond me, and the matter is clearly not settled among scientists as we speak. It is still being thrashed out.

            The one link in your chain (Planets > Microbes) is currently a "missing link", meaning scientist cannot reproduce this in a test tube and therefore prove it, although parts of that link can be replicated in labs.

            The "plants >life>humans" bit is well understood (you wrote it a little incorrectly, but no worries, I know what you mean).

            Once again, Atheists are always firm in this, Atheism is a LACK of faith/belief.

            Religious people always try to make out that there is faith in Atheism, so they can argue against it like they argue amongst themselves. It doesn't work.

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            • #66
              Re: I'm afraid of turning into an atheist eventually...

              Let me ask all of u a simple question.

              WHY HUMAN BEINGS ARE THE MOST CIVILIZED CREATURE ON EARTH ??

              Why no other animal is wearing clothes , talking over phone , writing books , driving cars etc ??

              If u say man is at the pinnacle of evolution , why no other organism of a different lineage is like man ?
              If we accept man belongs to the same family of Apes , why no other organism from Class Mammalia is like man ?
              There are many species of the same organism and in the same family there can be many similar members, look at tigers, lions etc- they have the same trait of being a carnivore- eat flesh , copulate and die.
              None from that family is wearing clothes or are driving a car !!

              SO WE HAVE TO ACCEPT HUMAN BEINGS OR Homo sapiens sapiens ARE SOMETHING OF ITS KIND , AN EXTRA ORDINARY BREED.

              Doesnt this ring some bells ??

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              • #67
                Re: I'm afraid of turning into an atheist eventually...

                Originally posted by kqaleel View Post
                Let me ask all of u a simple question.

                WHY HUMAN BEINGS ARE THE MOST CIVILIZED CREATURE ON EARTH ??

                Why no other animal is wearing clothes , talking over phone , writing books , driving cars etc ??

                If u say man is at the pinnacle of evolution , why no other organism of a different lineage is like man ?
                If we accept man belongs to the same family of Apes , why no other organism from Class Mammalia is like man ?
                There are many species of the same organism and in the same family there can be many similar members, look at tigers, lions etc- they have the same trait of being a carnivore- eat flesh , copulate and die.
                None from that family is wearing clothes or are driving a car !!

                SO WE HAVE TO ACCEPT HUMAN BEINGS OR Homo sapiens sapiens ARE SOMETHING OF ITS KIND , AN EXTRA ORDINARY BREED.

                Doesnt this ring some bells ??
                It's quite simple and also quite complicated.
                Firstly, "civilised" is a subjective term! I'll assume that you meant advanced or intelligent.
                Essentially it is down to the combination of brain size and physiology. Dolphins have brains as large as humans but they don't have a body able to exploit its potential. The only species that could possibly have evolved to our level are the primates (flexible digits and opposable thumbs plus large brain). We just happen to be the ones who evolved to fill this ecological niche. It could have been Neanderthals, or one of the other branches of Australopithicus or Homo which died out.

                We are, indeed, an extra-ordinary breed, as are sharks, eagles, crocodiles, hippopotami, ants, wolves, etc, etc. The only reason that we think we are different is that we are able to think that we are different.

                This is a very strange question from a final-year medical student. It's like saying, why aren't there flying humans or lions that can breath breathe underwater, or why aren't there colonies of hippos living underground and able to carry 100 times their own weight. Daft!

                I feel like I'm repeating myself. Don't you?

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                • #68
                  Re: I'm afraid of turning into an atheist eventually...

                  Originally posted by kqaleel View Post
                  Let me ask all of u a simple question.

                  WHY HUMAN BEINGS ARE THE MOST CIVILIZED CREATURE ON EARTH ??
                  which other creature has produced nuclear weapons and routinely tortures and massacres its own kind ?

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