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  • #31
    Re: I'm afraid of turning into an atheist eventually...

    Originally posted by Yusuf_ View Post
    one of my questions is associated with the big bang. A lot of people have that misconception that it's an ''explosion'', which is quite false. it's rather an expansion of matter (which already existed before, and probably always existed, but we cannot come to such conclusions yet) from a high density and temperature. A creationist would always ask , Who caused this happen?
    Scientists don't like to use the term ''Who'', because we don't actually have an evidence for God so they rather use the term ''What caused it''.
    so scientist have evidences matters was born from nothing?

    People would still argue and wonder how everything is so organized and stuff, but we're talking about more than 13 000 BILLIONS ago. There's a possibility that everything worked on probability with this large amount of time OR because things already has it's nature to be like that and organize the Universe by itself. (because of the nature of how matter, atoms, etc.. works)
    13 000 BILLIONS? a theory, time and space were different back then, mass , energy etc were different, so 13000 is just theory

    Also, if God really originated the existence of things, what's the point of creating a Universe this Big, and we're the only one living it?
    you are the only living on it? are you sure? even science only able to measure and observe small percent of energy when 2 galaxies collide, even science can't explain how magnet can it's energy and how gravity exist

    people can only feel their existence yet believe they are exist, but people think these kind of stuff born from nothing and without creator, well a failed logic i said

    I really don't think we can prove God unless we have a material evidence. Otherwise it's just a theory like every other thousands of theories

    So this kinda made me thinking
    again where is the proof of the first matter? is it born from nothingness or what? so science stated there is no creator is an erroneous statement which have no basic
    Last edited by Arashim; 08-11-13, 12:43 PM.

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    • #32
      Re: I'm afraid of turning into an atheist eventually...

      Originally posted by Yusuf_ View Post
      So you're saying that I should keep my mouth shut, and ignore all the questions I have?
      You miss my point, why get worked about answers to question that doesn't change anything. It's safe to say we don't have the capability of a scientific answer to these questions, it's mere speculation and theories at this point. So why ruin your faith over nothing

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      • #33
        Re: I'm afraid of turning into an atheist eventually...

        Originally posted by Yusuf_ View Post
        one of my questions is associated with the big bang. A lot of people have that misconception that it's an ''explosion'', which is quite false. it's rather an expansion of matter (which already existed before, and probably always existed, but we cannot come to such conclusions yet) from a high density and temperature. A creationist would always ask , Who caused this happen?
        Scientists don't like to use the term ''Who'', because we don't actually have an evidence for God so they rather use the term ''What caused it''.

        People would still argue and wonder how everything is so organized and stuff, but we're talking about more than 13 000 BILLIONS ago. There's a possibility that everything worked on probability with this large amount of time OR because things already has it's nature to be like that and organize the Universe by itself. (because of the nature of how matter, atoms, etc.. works)

        Also, if God really originated the existence of things, what's the point of creating a Universe this Big, and we're the only one living it?

        I really don't think we can prove God unless we have a material evidence. Otherwise it's just a theory like every other thousands of theories

        So this kinda made me thinking
        Assalaam Alaikum,

        Verily, We created man from a drop of mingled sperm so that We may test him; and therefore We made him hearing and seeing. We have indeed showed him the way, now he be grateful or ungrateful. (76:3)

        I use to spend lots of time pondering the Big Bang, Inflation theory, Dark energy, Dark Matter, the waves at the very edge of a Black Hole, particles being in two places at once...et, etc. Not to prove the existence of God, I always believed in God since I was child, but just to try and figure out things. Drove my husband batty and I lost much sleep.

        Then one day, I thought about gravity and how science does not know exactly what it is except from observation. And how satisfying it is just with that. We observe what goes up, must come down. That is all I need to know about it and I am okay about it. Allah created it, he created everything. And the fact of the matter, we did not even know about dark matter and the like 100 years ago. But it exists. Just think about all the things that could exist that we have no idea of...other beings on other planets. Who knows if we are alone in the Universe because the Universe is HUGE.

        Even if there are aliens from outer space, Allah created it and he created us to test us for His purposes. Science does not have to prove to me whether Allah exists or not, it is all part of tests for us to gain knowledge and maybe move from this planet to the next and to be fruitful and multiply in a Universe that Allah created.

        And the beauty of science is the awesomeness of Allah (swt) So even if the matter existed before the Universe... whatever. Allah (swt) still created that. And there is a theory that actually our universe exists inside a black hole and we inherit our time from the Universe the black hole is in. I have no problem with that.

        It is He who created for you all of that which is on the earth. Then He directed Himself to the heaven, [His being above all creation], and made them seven heavens, and He is Knowing of all things. 2:29

        So maybe it is like that 7 times over, universes existing in black holes 7 times and they equal heavens. Pretty awesome.

        I think the key is to approach science from the basis that Allah created everything inside and outside of our Universe. That is faith. Even if there are a hundred million universes He created them all and any observation we find or learn about in science, does not negate Him but shows that Allah (swt) is the Creator and Sustainer and just wow!

        Science has increased my faith. There is nothing it can do to shake my faith because no matter what they discover, I always say... Allah (swt) made that.
        By time, Indeed, mankind is in lose, Except for those who have believed and done righteous deeds and advised each other to truth and advised each other to patience. (Qur'an: 103-1-3)

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        • #34
          Re: I'm afraid of turning into an atheist eventually...

          Also, Onislam.net has some good articles about the sciences.

          http://www.onislam.net/english/index.php
          By time, Indeed, mankind is in lose, Except for those who have believed and done righteous deeds and advised each other to truth and advised each other to patience. (Qur'an: 103-1-3)

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          • #35
            Re: I'm afraid of turning into an atheist eventually...

            Turn to Allah sincerely and beg for guidance and firmness. May Allah keep us all firm in imaan.

            Also get the book fortress of a Muslim there are beneficial du`as throughout the book.

            And especially in this kind of situation say this du`a (Rabbana la tuzigh quloobana ba`da idh hadaytana wa hab lana milladunka rahmah innaka antal Wahhab)

            Our Lord! (they say), Let not our hearts deviate now after Thou hast guided us, but grant us mercy from Thine own Presence; for Thou art the Grantor of bounties without measure
            [3:8]

            Read Qur'an with tafseer. Also pray tahajjud and make du`a throughout the day (between adhan and iqaama, in sujood, before going to sleep).

            Go to a scholar and study the deen/discuss the matters that you need to understand better.

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            • #36
              Re: I'm afraid of turning into an atheist eventually...

              Originally posted by Jiba View Post
              Assalaam Alaikum,

              Verily, We created man from a drop of mingled sperm so that We may test him; and therefore We made him hearing and seeing. We have indeed showed him the way, now he be grateful or ungrateful. (76:3)

              I use to spend lots of time pondering the Big Bang, Inflation theory, Dark energy, Dark Matter, the waves at the very edge of a Black Hole, particles being in two places at once...et, etc. Not to prove the existence of God, I always believed in God since I was child, but just to try and figure out things. Drove my husband batty and I lost much sleep.

              Then one day, I thought about gravity and how science does not know exactly what it is except from observation. And how satisfying it is just with that. We observe what goes up, must come down. That is all I need to know about it and I am okay about it. Allah created it, he created everything. And the fact of the matter, we did not even know about dark matter and the like 100 years ago. But it exists. Just think about all the things that could exist that we have no idea of...other beings on other planets. Who knows if we are alone in the Universe because the Universe is HUGE.

              Even if there are aliens from outer space, Allah created it and he created us to test us for His purposes. Science does not have to prove to me whether Allah exists or not, it is all part of tests for us to gain knowledge and maybe move from this planet to the next and to be fruitful and multiply in a Universe that Allah created.

              And the beauty of science is the awesomeness of Allah (swt) So even if the matter existed before the Universe... whatever. Allah (swt) still created that. And there is a theory that actually our universe exists inside a black hole and we inherit our time from the Universe the black hole is in. I have no problem with that.

              It is He who created for you all of that which is on the earth. Then He directed Himself to the heaven, [His being above all creation], and made them seven heavens, and He is Knowing of all things. 2:29

              So maybe it is like that 7 times over, universes existing in black holes 7 times and they equal heavens. Pretty awesome.

              I think the key is to approach science from the basis that Allah created everything inside and outside of our Universe. That is faith. Even if there are a hundred million universes He created them all and any observation we find or learn about in science, does not negate Him but shows that Allah (swt) is the Creator and Sustainer and just wow!

              Science has increased my faith. There is nothing it can do to shake my faith because no matter what they discover, I always say... Allah (swt) made that.
              What a great answer

              Comment


              • #37
                Re: I'm afraid of turning into an atheist eventually...

                Originally posted by Yusuf_ View Post
                I've been having lots of doubts these past 3 months about the Qur'an, and the Religions in general. There are so many Questions that want to ask, but I don't seem to know anyone who is capable of it. I tried talking to Skeikhs in my region, but I am unsatisfied with most of their answers, because my questions is more from a scientific point of view and a lot of sheikhs these days are not qualified for that. (at least in my region). One thing that really disappoints me, is the Muslims. A lot of them seem to get angry very easily or leave it there because the Qur'an says so when I'm questioning the Qur'an and other stuff. Some even criticize me and advise me to stop asking questions or stop pursuing Knowledge from other sources than the Qur'an.

                I honestly really hate that. This is exactly what the Christians/Church do to keep people in the religion despite the fact that there are many questions that are left to be answered. I thought Islam was more open about other theories, thoughts etc.. and discuss them.

                S basically, my Imaan (faith) is fading away.

                What should I do?
                In all seriousness, there are only two things to do.

                1. Read. Read anything and everything.
                2. Do this without the presumption that any of it is true. If you find two ideas conflicting, use your own analysis to decide which one has the best supporting evidence, which one is most likely. Occam's Razor is a useful tool: when faced with two conflicting explanations, favour the one that requires the fewest assumptions (statements with no evidence).

                The rest is up to you. Good luck!

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                • #38
                  Re: I'm afraid of turning into an atheist eventually...

                  Originally posted by truepath View Post
                  What is science? except for ideas of people aka scientists... half the theories they have are not even provable except for their claims and every theory is overridden and disproved by another theory over the years... so you think science is that reliable?
                  what about the science behind the system which allowed you to post that message on the internet?

                  sweeping statements about the unreliability of science makes muslims sound backwards and superstitious.

                  Comment


                  • #39
                    Re: I'm afraid of turning into an atheist eventually...

                    Originally posted by truepath View Post
                    What 13000 BILLIONS ago? Where did that come from? Whats the evidence for 13000 billions? Why not 15000 billions? Why not 19000 billions? Why not 27967 Billions? Why not 534323223672323 trillions? Basically I mean to ask what proof, evidence is there for 13000 billlions ago as a number other than the guess work of some scientists?

                    Why do you believe in the number 13 000 Billions ago? Whats the basis for it? Whats the proof and evidence behind it?
                    Actually it is not 13 000 billion years but current estimates put the age of Universe at about 13.8 billion years

                    To understand the proof and how this number is calculated you should research the concepts of Light velocity, Redshift / Doppler effect and Expanding universe. There is a lot of Physics and Maths behind those concepts.

                    However, if you want to understand in a intuitive manner without resorting to elaborate formulas and derivations, I would suggest you to read the first chapter "A Cosmic Mystery Story: Beginnings" from Lawrence Krauss's book "A Universe From Nothing"

                    You can download the book from here: http://www11.zippyshare.com/v/82538699/file.html

                    You can install epub reader extension for firefox and drag/drop the epub file into your firefox browser to open it
                    Not knowing what one doesn't know will lead to difficulty

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                    • #40
                      Re: I'm afraid of turning into an atheist eventually...

                      Originally posted by Modernist View Post
                      what about the science behind the system which allowed you to post that message on the internet?

                      sweeping statements about the unreliability of science makes muslims sound backwards and superstitious.
                      red herring, next time try some new rhetoric with new and better examples...this particular one is quite worn off.
                      لا أريد مِنْكُمْ جَزَاء وَلا شُكُورًا

                      Comment


                      • #41
                        Re: I'm afraid of turning into an atheist eventually...

                        Originally posted by Modernist View Post
                        what about the science behind the system which allowed you to post that message on the internet?
                        Exactly!

                        Before making sweeping statements about unreliability of Science people should understand that the computers, the telecommunications, the television, the automobiles, the generators / motors and the electricity that they produce and consume, the ever shrinking electronics that made smart phones and mobile computing possible, the X-radys and MRI scans that form the backbone of medical technoloy and so on and so forth are made possible because Science is reliable

                        If Science is not reliable, there is no point in relying on anything that Science made possible.
                        Not knowing what one doesn't know will lead to difficulty

                        Comment


                        • #42
                          Re: I'm afraid of turning into an atheist eventually...

                          Originally posted by Vishnu View Post
                          Exactly!

                          Before making sweeping statements about unreliability of Science people should understand that the computers, the telecommunications, the television, the automobiles, the generators / motors and the electricity that they produce and consume, the ever shrinking electronics that made smart phones and mobile computing possible, the X-radys and MRI scans that form the backbone of medical technoloy and so on and so forth are made possible because Science is reliable

                          If Science is not reliable, there is no point in relying on anything that Science made possible.
                          I think you will find people made all those things

                          so by your own criteria if what made people isn't reliable then you should not rely on anything that made people possible

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                          • #43
                            Re: I'm afraid of turning into an atheist eventually...

                            Originally posted by Vishnu View Post
                            Exactly!

                            Before making sweeping statements about unreliability of Science people should understand that the computers, the telecommunications, the television, the automobiles, the generators / motors and the electricity that they produce and consume, the ever shrinking electronics that made smart phones and mobile computing possible, the X-radys and MRI scans that form the backbone of medical technoloy and so on and so forth are made possible because Science is reliable

                            If Science is not reliable, there is no point in relying on anything that Science made possible.
                            Are you atheist or hindu? I am asking most hindus who got good education later turned into atheist and do not believe in hinduism anymore. If you are still hindu, then tell me how has science supported to confirm your belief in your religion?

                            Atleast, Science has managed to so far discover many of the facts already stated in the Quran 1400 years ago. As for other facts, its science that is still in discovery mode... Islam has already been discovered.
                            لا أريد مِنْكُمْ جَزَاء وَلا شُكُورًا

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                            • #44
                              Re: I'm afraid of turning into an atheist eventually...

                              Originally posted by nonameakhi View Post
                              I think you will find people made all those things

                              so by your own criteria if what made people isn't reliable then you should not rely on anything that made people possible
                              Yeah, you got that right people made all those inventions by applying Scientific Method

                              How do you know, who made people / life possible?

                              If tomorrow Science devises a way to create life in laboratory from inanimate matter, it still would not be enough to conclude that life came about that way. One would still be inclined to believe that it is God that performed that experiment or if there is yet another way (among zillion others) to create life.

                              However, still Science is the way to go as it really works!
                              Not knowing what one doesn't know will lead to difficulty

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                              • #45
                                Re: I'm afraid of turning into an atheist eventually...

                                Originally posted by truepath View Post
                                Are you atheist or hindu? I am asking most hindus who got good education later turned into atheist and do not believe in hinduism anymore. If you are still hindu, then tell me how has science supported to confirm your belief in your religion?

                                Atleast, Science has managed to so far discover many of the facts already stated in the Quran 1400 years ago. As for other facts, its science that is still in discovery mode... Islam has already been discovered.
                                I don't believe in fitting myself in this way or that way

                                I can understand the utility of religion in imparting an order, morality and rules in society and I respect the wisdom behind it in that sense.

                                As for your other statement, if Quran has everything that is discovered and yet to be discovered, then we can safely replace our Science books with Quran. However, you and I know that is not true.

                                So from a Utilitarian point of view just like religion has a role in our society to setup an order (at least till the time that the majority is religious), Science has a role in humankind's endeavor to learn more and more about our Universe and how it works.

                                Each has its own place and we should realize where one begins and where the other starts! That way, religion and science can be viewed as not competing but complementing each other.
                                Last edited by Vishnu; 10-11-13, 08:17 AM.
                                Not knowing what one doesn't know will lead to difficulty

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