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  • Re: Why is feminism seen as a 'fitna' or with negativity on the ummah forum?

    Originally posted by |Sister| View Post
    We need pious* Muslims in positions of power, then.
    Sis everyone is pious until they get in power/position. Maybe except 1% of the population. We need people who are not in power to get together and watch out for eachothers best interest. This is how I see the Feminist movement, bunch of woman looking out for eachother. We need more Muslim female involvment in social affairs

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    • Re: Why is feminism seen as a 'fitna' or with negativity on the ummah forum?

      Originally posted by |Sister| View Post
      I rarely feel emotions, so you must have misunderstood my statement. I find it peculiar that this is the only one of my posts you decide to quote out of the entire thread. I did, however, say it was offensive - I never said I was personally offended. I felt it important to point out the hypocrisy in the post that I had quoted. One could equally claim that feminists are brainwashed, but I did not walk down that road to avoid offense and accusations.
      It was a comment that struck me as being overly-defensive - when psychologists, anthropologists and philosophers have commented on the nature of patriarchy and when women are marginalised in certain societies for centuries on end. It's only in this regard that I think ''brain-washing'' is an apt description given the various analyses of this topic.

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      • Re: Why is feminism seen as a 'fitna' or with negativity on the ummah forum?

        Amazing i find sisters with two ends of the spectrum here.If i was a voting guy , i know which side i will choose.

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        • Re: Why is feminism seen as a 'fitna' or with negativity on the ummah forum?

          In any respect, its fairly common sense that until the patriarchal elite in certain sections of Muslim society (particularly in the rural areas) are challenged in terms of their ideological power and monopoly over Islamic interpretation there will be no real change. This goes beyond legislation or what the State can do. Some sexist attitudes have been deeply entrenched in Muslim societies through the combination of custom, cultural tradition and societal expectations all created be men - and you can see this in pretty much every Muslim country in some form or another, from the Arab World to sub-continental Asia, to Africa and beyond..it's a disturbing disease that has deep roots.

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          • Re: Why is feminism seen as a 'fitna' or with negativity on the ummah forum?

            Originally posted by 2nd Reflection View Post
            It was a comment that struck me as being overly-defensive - when psychologists, anthropologists and philosophers have commented on the nature of patriarchy and when women are marginalised in certain societies for centuries on end. It's only in this regard that I think ''brain-washing'' is an apt description given the various analyses of this topic.
            It was purposely defensive, I was going for emphasis. It is ridiculous to defend feminism by implying that women cannot think or make decisions without the input of a man. One familiar with sarcasm should have recognized that much easier.

            Originally posted by 2nd Reflection View Post
            Feminism is a wide label - it is applied to a series of movements which sometimes are in complete contradiction to each other.
            This has already been covered quite a bit in the thread, so it is strange you imply that we aren't aware of it.

            Originally posted by 2nd Reflection View Post
            The task is to simply sift through the different feminist movements, and more importantly listen to Muslims who advocate a feminist ethic to see if what they say makes sense instead of being prejudiced and shouting at them just because they mentioned the word ''feminist''.
            Listening to them and agreeing with them are two entirely different things. We listen to things compliant with Islaam and then we attribute it to Islaam, not "feminism".

            Originally posted by 2nd Reflection View Post
            And to be honest, as soon as some Muslim men see a woman speaking about women's rights they immediately shout ''FEMINIST'' as if it were a term of abuse like other unmentionable words even though the speaker herself never mentions the word, and only references the Islamic scriptural sources.
            This, unfortunately, is true. I have been called a feminist plenty of times on this forum by paranoid brothers for simply stating facts. But many of the brothers here on this forum have never been married and they are paranoid of ending up with a feminist. If I were a brother, I'd be nervous as well.

            Originally posted by 2nd Reflection View Post
            Very weird...but that's what happens when some Muslims think emotionally instead of rationally.
            So do you consider yourself the only voice of reason in this sea of emotional chaos?

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            • Re: Why is feminism seen as a 'fitna' or with negativity on the ummah forum?

              Originally posted by Kya View Post
              We need more Muslim female involvment in social affairs
              Yes, we do; but this is not feminism, this is Muslim women doing what Muslim women should do. Feminism is a non-muslim movement meant for non-muslims, it has no place in Muslim society and causes more problems than it fixes. We need more educated Muslim women fighting for Islaam, not the kufr ideals of western society that always accompanies feminism.

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              • Re: Why is feminism seen as a 'fitna' or with negativity on the ummah forum?

                Originally posted by |Sister| View Post
                Yes, we do; but this is not feminism, this is Muslim women doing what Muslim women should do. Feminism is a non-muslim movement meant for non-muslims, it has no place in Muslim society and causes more problems than it fixes. We need more educated Muslim women fighting for Islaam, not the kufr ideals of western society that always accompanies feminism.
                What difference does it make what you call the effort/movement/involvment? A rose by any other name is still a rose or whatever that guy said. Some Feminist fight for righ tto choose abortion while others fight for right of life. As agreed on this thread different feminist fight for different agenda and many agree with Islamic view. Feminism is not a dirty word and not every feminist is based on kufr ideals of western society. Most just want a decent society for girls to grow up in, it doesn't matter if its western or eastner as long as women are not beaten or abused. If it is popular name & makes communication easy, use it

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                • Re: Why is feminism seen as a 'fitna' or with negativity on the ummah forum?

                  Originally posted by Kya View Post
                  What difference does it make what you call the effort/movement/involvment?
                  What difference does it make to march under the banner of Islaam instead of a kufr movement? :scratch:

                  Good question.

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                  • Re: Why is feminism seen as a 'fitna' or with negativity on the ummah forum?

                    Muslim men and women don't have a conflict, they both generally agree and understand their roles under Islam. Western men and women, specially feminists, are constantly in a conflict with each other, trying to argue about what a woman can or can't do. So if anything it's them who need to solve their problems, and they are the ones who need to learn from muslims who how to live happily, and stop trying to stick their ignorant selves in our bussiness and inserting false accusations such as 'muslim women are brainwashed' just because the women have learned to find peace in their lives, unlike them.

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                    • Re: Why is feminism seen as a 'fitna' or with negativity on the ummah forum?

                      Originally posted by Kya View Post
                      If it is popular name & makes communication easy, use it
                      Only it's not popular, it has negative connotations among kuffar and Muslims alike, and who's preaching its use? Those who were brought up around that as an ideal, even with all the messes and embarrassments that come with it. Only reason anyone ever sought for a term or concept outside of what is originally in Islam is because of a complex they've developed living in their society, not striving for honor through Islam alone.

                      Islam is independent of feminism or any other idealogy, it's its own entity. If others have something here or there that conforms with it, that does not give or take from the matter a single thing and nor does it mean the dignified Muslim needs now incline towards what is otherwise a complete mess.

                      Actually in the Muslim world this issue of "oh noes, where's the female scholars?" is not even relevant, it doesn't even address huge problems we have, it just distracts from bigger issues, like the aforementioned masses who never listened to scholars in the first place, or more obvious matters like the clear wars being waged upon this religion both physically and in speech. Actually all this talk we are having right now is part of that latter war, complexes developed because the enemy is telling us "you Muslims really messed up with women", and it's their biggest tool against all those fighting abroad. Why else do we hear about it so much on the news...? Because the US, who kills more women and children than anyone else, cares about our women and feminism? They just want to break the homes of Muslims, that we may be busied with these trifling matters. And western du`aat eat this wholesale "guys, what happened to women scholarzzzZ???" as they go red in the face and jerkier in speech (seen that before). That's a guy struggling with a complex, he's not actually addressing anything. Irony is, these same guys are the ones who tell all who disagree with them "tomorrow you'll cease to be relevant!". Be that true or false, at least we can say, once upon a time there was relevance had, unlike in this line of discussion.

                      Long story short, only reason there's even discussion of feminism is because people are inclining, out of desperation, to anything they can match with what is in their surrounding society or what media is pushing today. Islam on the other hand has been completed and gave the woman all she needed long ago, it's just getting people to adhere to the religion, and feminism the term or pieces of its ideology need not even put a single tippy toe into the picture. It shouldn't even be recognized.
                      والمبادرة إلى التكفير إنما تغلب على طباع من يغلب عليهم الجهل - ابن تيمية رحمه الله - بغية المرتاد

                      "Rushing towards takfir is an attitude which is dominant over those who are defeated by ignorance." - Ibn Taymiyyah Rahimahullah [Bughyatul Murtaad, page 354]

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                      • Re: Why is feminism seen as a 'fitna' or with negativity on the ummah forum?

                        Originally posted by 2nd Reflection View Post
                        ...Feminism is a wide label - it is applied to a series of movements which sometimes are in complete contradiction to each other.

                        The task is to simply sift through the different feminist movements, and more importantly listen to Muslims who advocate a feminist ethic to see if what they say makes sense instead of being prejudiced and shouting at them just because they mentioned the word ''feminist''...
                        This is exactly what we have been trying to do in this thread.

                        Those in 'favour of feminism' have not really gone into detail about which aspects of feminism they wish to promote. Unless I missed those particular posts of course. Some seem to believe that any 'womens' issue' is synonymous with feminism.

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                        • Re: Why is feminism seen as a 'fitna' or with negativity on the ummah forum?

                          We don't need any feminism women just need to be strong and stand up for the rights that Islam has given them it is women in many cases who sell themselves short and put up with lot of nonsense

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                          • Re: Why is feminism seen as a 'fitna' or with negativity on the ummah forum?

                            Originally posted by 2nd Reflection View Post
                            Well there is a requirement for feminism in the sense there is a need for more women scholars of Islam - so that the rights of women can be advocated in Islamic scholarship.
                            We don't need feminism. We have islam. An it's not just women's right, it's men's rights, the rights of the kuffaar, prisoners, animals, plants etc. Not just women.

                            Another thing, why don't we do something instead of moaning about it? Sisters need to do things. Those who say there's not enough for women need to :insha: do things. This is why I love our sister Naila, may Allah put khair and barakah in her work ameen, she's a beautiful example of a Muslimah who gets up and does things.

                            We need to take initiative. No joke. I've seen some things but I won't generalise. Point is, we have to make the right intention and go seek things to make a difference. We can talk and moan all day everyday about what we don't have, about our rights and wotsits not being given to us but if we don't knuckle down then aint no change gonna happen. An it only happens with the help of Allah and us doing our bit as much as we can.

                            Don't pull out the culture or oppression card either. Especially for those of us sitting in western countries or countries that are safe. We can make a difference to our community :insha:

                            Sick of hearing this nonsense.

                            Prophet Ibrahim alayhis'salam was considered an entire ummah alone. So don't no one say that one person can't make a difference coz we can bi'ithnillah.

                            Edit- if any sister is looking for classes online (because you can't find anything in person or at your masjid) then I can send you details just ask for it. If you've got facilities and access to classes in person then go to them.
                            Last edited by F_R; 22-07-13, 07:29 PM.

                            لا تفكر كثيرا
                            بل استغفر كثيرا

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                            www.inheritorsofquran.wordpress.com

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                            • Re: Why is feminism seen as a 'fitna' or with negativity on the ummah forum?

                              :salams

                              A lot of you have too much free time during Ramadan...=/
                              Secure few moments, everyday, to reflect upon the innumerable blessings of Allah and thank Him for bestowing them upon you.

                              "A person who is blessed with the ability to be grateful, shall never be deprived of barakah and increase in blessings."
                              - Rasulullah (صلی اللہ علیہ وسلم)‎

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                              • Re: Why is feminism seen as a 'fitna' or with negativity on the ummah forum?

                                Originally posted by F_R View Post
                                Another thing, why don't we do something instead of moaning about it? Sisters need to do things. Those who say there's not enough for women need to :insha: do things. This is why I love our sister Naila, may Allah put khair and barakah in her work ameen, she's a beautiful example of a Muslimah who gets up and does things.
                                I wish I could do things lol. But I don't really know how

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