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Why feminism doesn't work with Muslims or Islam

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  • Re: Why feminism doesn't work with Muslims or Islam

    Originally posted by Rainyday View Post
    Islam gives men and women their rights, as well as children, parents, the elderly, animals and unborn children, they all have their rights in Islam,

    Women historically have been the property of men, with no rights to inheritance, divorce, child custody etc.

    Before the womens property act in 1870 england, anything a woman owned be it property, money, a wage, land etc automatically became the property of her husband once married.

    According to another old english law, if a woman was raped, the rapist (if caught) would pay compensation to her father, husband, brother or whichever male relative owned her. She received nothing.

    Women were effortlessly given their rights under Islam whilst women were being traded and kept as objects in the rest of the world. Women have only recently been given their rights in the west through a long and difficult struggle.
    Funny how the oppressor and oppressed have switched roles....

    Comment


    • Re: Why is feminism seen as a 'fitna' or with negativity on the ummah forum?

      Originally posted by LailaTheMuslim View Post
      I disagree with your last statement, a lot of feminists goals do not directly go against shariah.
      If you think feminism undermines a woman's work in the household, it doesn't. Feminism supports those women who stay at home/are wives and those who aren't, they argue for women to be treated as adults with their own choices.
      Originally posted by DaughterOfAdam View Post
      In fact a lot of things which feminists call for are in accordance with the shariah e.g. getting porn banned, getting lads magazines banned (where they show topless images of women), against the objectification of women etc.
      Originally posted by DaughterOfAdam View Post
      I said they were calling for those things to be banned. They're still campaigning. And I don't think it's an illuminati plot. I think women are genuinely tired of being seen as objects. Also porn etc. is not just a 'western' problem when it's also a problem amongst Muslims.
      It is not what "I think", it is what feminists state themselves. You are trying to portray this dreamy, watered-down view of feminism as if it's something to admire. It's not. They support murder (abortion) against parent's consent, lesbian relationships, disobedience to the husband and parents which they call "empowerment".
      Ex:
      http://www.feminist.org/welcome/mandp.asp
      Feminism n. the policy, practice or advocacy of political (women aren't leaders in Islaam), economic, and social equality (men and women are not equal socially or biologically) for women.

      FMF promotes equality between women and men and girls and boys, and supports constitutional and statutory measures to gain full equality locally, statewide, nationally, and globally.
      FMF supports safe, legal and accessible abortion (murder), contraception(promotion of zinaa) , and family planning, including Medicaid funding (for abortion) and access for minors (So children can abort the fetus from zinaa without their parents knowing).
      FMF is dedicated to achieving civil rights for all people, including affirmative action programs (if men had these programs it would be called sexism) for women and people of color.
      FMF supports lesbian, gay, bisexual and transgender rights. (no comment needed here)
      FMF does not permit discrimination on the basis of sex (this is a lie told to remain politically correct, most feminists express open grudge against males), race, sexual orientation (so lesbians aren't scolded for haraam or educated on why it's bad), socio-economic status, religion, ethnicity, age, marital status, national origin, or disability.
      http://www.feministsforlife.org/who/aboutus.htm

      "If you believe no woman should have to choose between her education and career plans and sacrificing her child"
      And as for 'supporting those stay at home mothers', what a joke. Most feminists are directly against this 'degrading' ideal.
      http://*****magazine.org/

      Why does ***** call itself a “feminist response to pop culture”?

      ***** looks at the media and its products through a lens that takes into account the historical and cultural representation of gender in pop culture. Movies, television, news magazines, fashion magazines, blogs, comics, advertising, music, computer games — all are media that have traditionally reflected a narrow vision of what women and girls are and can be, whether it’s the dumb blond, the needy wife, the castrating mother, “the I’m-not-a-feminist-but…” woman, or the heartless, man-shunning domestic media mogul (to name but a few). We seek to look at all pop culture through an analytical-yet-witty, sharp-yet-sympathetic lens, as well as to celebrate the feminist culture-makers who are transforming the media with their unique contributions.

      ***** aims to put a lucid, balanced face on feminism(they call this garbage 'lucid and 'balanced') for all kinds of folks, including people who aren’t really aware that feminism refers to more than women who don’t want to shave their legs, or simply getting more women into positions of power. Similarly, we encourage people to consider feminism as a necessary part of the broader social justice movement.

      For as long as we’ve been publishing *****, there’s one question that gets asked over and over. And over. “Why did you choose that word as the name of your magazine?” While we’re aware that the magazine’s title, and the organization’s name, is off-putting to some people, we think it’s worth it. And here’s why. The writer Rebecca West said, “People call me a feminist whenever I express sentiments that differentiate me from a doormat.” We’d argue that the word “*****” is usually deployed for the same purpose. When it’s being used as an insult, “*****” is an epithet hurled at women who speak their minds, who have opinions and don’t shy away from expressing them, and who don’t sit by and smile uncomfortably if they’re bothered or offended. If being an outspoken woman means being a *****, we’ll take that as a compliment.
      ^ Tell me what kind of self-respecting Muslim man would desire to marry a woman with this mindset? He would run and hide from her. Lovely marriage right there. Since many feminists consider marriage an antiquated social custom we are no longer in need of, it doesn't really matter anyway. This is the kind of message we are giving to our brothers when we join these stupid kafir movements. Just because you personally define 'feminism' as compliant with shari'a and Islaam, that doesn't mean it is. It isn't and never has been.

      2nd wave feminists (80s-early 90s) called for goals that can be seen as superficially similar to shari'a rulings. 3rd wave feminism, which is modern feminism and the majority of feminist youth today, calls for the abolishment of gender roles and even approve of porn and reject that it exploits women at all. It is the 2nd wave feminists - a breed which is quickly dying out - that still unsuccessfully call for porn and photoshopped advertisements to be banned and regulated. Most modern goals of feminism go directly against shari'a.

      Why don't you go to all these feminists you admire so much and ask them what they think of shari'a law. You might by shocked by the answer. Feminists are not your allies, your only allies are in Islaam.

      I suggest all of the sisters (and brothers) on here who support this ridiculous ideology actually sit down and study the entire history of the feminism movement before making such statements. And when we march under a banner for justice, we do it under the banner of Islaam alone; not the "-isms" of the kuffar.
      Last edited by |Sister|; 22-07-13, 04:50 AM.

      Comment


      • Re: Why is feminism seen as a 'fitna' or with negativity on the ummah forum?

        ^Aha, a sister who knows what she is talking about.

        Comment


        • Re: Why is feminism seen as a 'fitna' or with negativity on the ummah forum?

          Just in response to the OP:

          There have been users on this forum that have thrown "feminism" at Muslim women who have merely stepped up for their rights in Islam, in such cases the term has clearly been misused and they ought to re/acquaint themselves with their religion, so I won't comment on this part of your post further.

          The fact of the matter is that Islam is perfect and if we lived in a perfect world, Islam would be implemented in its entirety and the feminism movement would be made entirely redundant.

          Alas, this is not the case and neither has it ever been. As such, feminism has clearly helped raise the issue of women's right over the years and the movement still continues to do so. We can see and read of the documented benefits that it has brought in countries like the UK and even those further east.

          I believe there are aspects of feminism that are clearly Islamically acceptable; whether in spirit in terms of women 'having a voice', or through action in raising awareness of domestic violence and the role of women in the home. However, are these aspects exclusive to feminism? Of course not, some of these aspects are expressed in ideologies and different religions but the raising of these concerns and other agendas were given the broad title of feminism at the time.

          As someone mentioned in a post (I only skimmed through them), these are things a thinking and moral society will eventually aim to address anyway though evidently society has progressed in many ways over the years and it is movements like this that aided these changes.

          Thus, is feminism acceptable in it's entirety? No. However, I wish some of the things feminism stands for are implemented. Saying this doesn't make me an advocate of feminism, it merely means I acknowledge those aspects of feminism that are within the teachings of Islam. Obviously, I'd rather all of Islam were implemented instead and realise there are aspects of feminism that are truly illogical and I would never condone.

          As a side note: persisting in using the term "feminism" annoys me. Why don't we just state exactly what we mean?
          Ya Muqallib al-Quloob, thabbit qalbi 'alaa Deenik
          O' Converter of Hearts, make my heart steadfast upon Thy Way
          We can easily forgive a child who is afraid of the dark; the real tragedy of life is when men are afraid of the light.

          Comment


          • Re: Why is feminism seen as a 'fitna' or with negativity on the ummah forum?

            Originally posted by leela View Post
            Where women exist, there's a need for some kind of ideology that will uphold their rights, so in the absence of Islam, feminism has sprung up. Why is this so difficult to accept and why is it so reviled when all it's there for, is to protect women and give them their rights?
            i agree that feminism was initially there for the rights of women, as Islam was not there to provide this in the west, e.g communism began for equality on the more socio political stance.

            however, these have strayed so far that they are 'evolving' outwith wisdom behind it's movements.

            the key thing to remember here is that Islamic laws and regulations come with wisdom, whereas feminism doesn't and of course is not designed to be governed by the guidelines of Islam. hence why for any muslim; feminism is more of a primitive method of tackling rights as there is no real thought process or understanding behind the rights of the individual
            Last edited by Nashmia; 22-07-13, 01:04 PM.
            DO NOT PRIVATE MESSAGE IF YOU DON'T KNOW ME.

            Comment


            • Re: Why is feminism seen as a 'fitna' or with negativity on the ummah forum?

              ^ Tell me what kind of self-respecting Muslim man would desire to marry a woman with this mindset? He would run and hide from her. Lovely marriage right there. Since many feminists consider marriage an antiquated social custom we are no longer in need of, it doesn't really matter anyway. This is the kind of message we are giving to our brothers when we join these stupid kafir movements. Just because you personally define 'feminism' as compliant with shari'a and Islaam, that doesn't mean it is. It isn't and never has been.
              Right, here we go again. Making it about the brothers, who cares about what kind of women the would marry. Why should their needs be prioritized in a post about women and their roles in Muslim communities?


              You exaggerate the parts of feminism that isn't really favorable to Islam, and downplay those that are beneficial and have helped women including muslim women.

              Like you said 'some' feminists believe that marriage is an outdated social custom, some feminists believe in this and that, what I am arguing is that the feminist movement has been unfairly derided and taken out of context with some members of the ummah forum.

              Anway I am going quit arguing you, your posts come across as really condescending and quarrelsome, perhaps you should take advice from your sig.
              وَاقْصِدْ فِي مَشْيِكَ وَاغْضُضْ مِن صَوْتِكَ ۚ إِنَّ أَنكَرَ الْأَصْوَاتِ لَصَوْتُ الْحَمِيرِ - 31:19

              And be moderate in your pace and lower your voice; indeed, the most disagreeable of sounds is the voice of donkeys."


              أَلَمْ تَرَوْا أَنَّ اللَّهَ سَخَّرَ لَكُم مَّا فِي السَّمَاوَاتِ وَمَا فِي الْأَرْضِ وَأَسْبَغَ عَلَيْكُمْ نِعَمَهُ ظَاهِرَةً وَبَاطِنَةً ۗ وَمِنَ النَّاسِ مَن يُجَادِلُ فِي اللَّهِ بِغَيْرِ عِلْمٍ وَلَا هُدًى وَلَا كِتَابٍ مُّنِيرٍ - 31:20

              Do you not see that Allah has made subject to you whatever is in the heavens and whatever is in the earth and amply bestowed upon you His favors, [both] apparent and unapparent? But of the people is he who disputes about Allah without knowledge or guidance or an enlightening Book [from Him].


              Please take a look at my travel booking website : https://destinationfindertravel.com/

              Please take a look at my blog : http://thinkingmuslima.blogspot.co.uk/

              Comment


              • Re: Why is feminism seen as a 'fitna' or with negativity on the ummah forum?

                Originally posted by LailaTheMuslim View Post
                what I am arguing is that the feminist movement has been unfairly derided and taken out of context with some members of the ummah forum.
                I disagree. I - and many others here - am of the opinion that all unislamic "-isms" that call for things out of Islaam are bad for society as a whole.

                Originally posted by LailaTheMuslim View Post
                Anway I am going quit arguing you, your posts come across as really condescending and quarrelsome, perhaps you should take advice from your sig.
                Likewise

                Comment


                • Re: Why is feminism seen as a 'fitna' or with negativity on the ummah forum?

                  interesting to note

                  the rothschilds initially funded the feminist movement, not for equal rights for women, but to double the workforce, hence increase tax revenue, which they collect via the world bank and the federal reserve

                  so for those who "kinda sorta" agree with feminism, you are being taken as a sucker
                  .لا نريد زعيما يخاف البيت الإبيض
                  نريد زعيما يخاف الواحد الأحد
                  دولة الإسلامية باقية





                  Comment


                  • Re: Why feminism doesn't work with Muslims or Islam

                    OP, it would help if you defined what 'feminism' means to you.

                    Most of the arguments so far have been over the definition.

                    Comment


                    • Re: Why is feminism seen as a 'fitna' or with negativity on the ummah forum?

                      Originally posted by LailaTheMuslim View Post

                      Like you said 'some' feminists believe that marriage is an outdated social custom, some feminists believe in this and that, what I am arguing is that the feminist movement has been unfairly derided and taken out of context with some members of the ummah forum.
                      there isn't any single cohesive feminist movement with set ideals. Its fragmented like crazy. Everyone has a different definition of feminism because it is from peoples personal opinion. Do some users mis-represent or mis-use the term feminist, yea but the insulting thing there is, which you should also be angry about is that they are downplaying the ISLAMIC RIGHT given to women by Allah SWT by calling it feminism. Do you understand what I am saying?

                      You know Capitalism has many aspects that agrees with Islam. It has done a lot of benefits, do you support capitalism practiced by the world today?
                      "They are Shuhadaa (witnesses) to the fact that this Deen is greater than life, that values are more important than blood and that principles are more precious than souls" - Sheikh 'Abdullah Azzam

                      Lost in Islamic History :inlove:

                      Comment


                      • Re: Why is feminism seen as a 'fitna' or with negativity on the ummah forum?

                        Originally posted by samin62 View Post
                        there isn't any single cohesive feminist movement with set ideals. Its fragmented like crazy. Everyone has a different definition of feminism because it is from peoples personal opinion. Do some users mis-represent or mis-use the term feminist, yea but the insulting thing there is, which you should also be angry about is that they are downplaying the ISLAMIC RIGHT given to women by Allah SWT by calling it feminism. Do you understand what I am saying?

                        You know Capitalism has many aspects that agrees with Islam. It has done a lot of benefits, do you support capitalism practiced by the world today?
                        It's tricky, if you disagree with capitalism then it has some parts that agree with Islam that I can't dismiss?
                        I don't know enough about capitalism to comment
                        وَاقْصِدْ فِي مَشْيِكَ وَاغْضُضْ مِن صَوْتِكَ ۚ إِنَّ أَنكَرَ الْأَصْوَاتِ لَصَوْتُ الْحَمِيرِ - 31:19

                        And be moderate in your pace and lower your voice; indeed, the most disagreeable of sounds is the voice of donkeys."


                        أَلَمْ تَرَوْا أَنَّ اللَّهَ سَخَّرَ لَكُم مَّا فِي السَّمَاوَاتِ وَمَا فِي الْأَرْضِ وَأَسْبَغَ عَلَيْكُمْ نِعَمَهُ ظَاهِرَةً وَبَاطِنَةً ۗ وَمِنَ النَّاسِ مَن يُجَادِلُ فِي اللَّهِ بِغَيْرِ عِلْمٍ وَلَا هُدًى وَلَا كِتَابٍ مُّنِيرٍ - 31:20

                        Do you not see that Allah has made subject to you whatever is in the heavens and whatever is in the earth and amply bestowed upon you His favors, [both] apparent and unapparent? But of the people is he who disputes about Allah without knowledge or guidance or an enlightening Book [from Him].


                        Please take a look at my travel booking website : https://destinationfindertravel.com/

                        Please take a look at my blog : http://thinkingmuslima.blogspot.co.uk/

                        Comment


                        • Re: Why is feminism seen as a 'fitna' or with negativity on the ummah forum?

                          Originally posted by LailaTheMuslim View Post
                          Don't want to wage a gender war here, and please keep calm since it's Ramadan.

                          I was reading the thread about "women being banned from shopping" in pakistan. One of our dear sisters claimed that feminism is a fitna, and Pakistan should continue to ban women from shopping and avoid the women's rights movement.

                          What!!!

                          I don't understand how anyone, especially our muslim sisters can claim the women's right movement as a fitna and talk about it as some sort of perilous evil trying to sufficate the Muslim world.
                          Fair enough that you aren't a feminist because it's a non-Muslim ideology and you think you should priorities your faith, but of all non-muslim ideologies, why get extra angry and the idea of feminism? Feminists try to get women justice with a lot of issues such as rape and domestic violence, which is a problem in our communities, especially in war-torn areas. Why does it even make you angry if women right's activists push harder for women's rights. Like why get angry about that...i dunno

                          I think a lot of the sisters have internalized a lot sexism from some of our Muslim brothers, and take it out on feminism because of that.

                          It's just not all that bad.
                          If it aint all good, it aint worth following.

                          There is perhaps still some goodness taught in the bible, a few uncorrupted verses, like "Thou shalt not kill" should we accept, promote and follow it?

                          Yes, islam teaches us the same thing, but we never quote the bible on it, the quran and shariah is our only basis and guide.

                          Feminism may have a few "good" things about it, but ultimately it is corrupt.
                          You know you're growing old when the candles cost more than the cake

                          Comment


                          • Re: Why is feminism seen as a 'fitna' or with negativity on the ummah forum?

                            Originally posted by samin62 View Post
                            there isn't any single cohesive feminist movement with set ideals. Its fragmented like crazy. Everyone has a different definition of feminism because it is from peoples personal opinion. Do some users mis-represent or mis-use the term feminist, yea but the insulting thing there is, which you should also be angry about is that they are downplaying the ISLAMIC RIGHT given to women by Allah SWT by calling it feminism. Do you understand what I am saying?

                            You know Capitalism has many aspects that agrees with Islam. It has done a lot of benefits, do you support capitalism practiced by the world today?
                            You don't have to embrace the whole ideology to accept and benefit from parts of it which are not contrary to Islam. Particularly in countries where you are unable to implement Islamic law.
                            "Think for yourselves and let others enjoy the privilege to do so too" Essay on Tolerance, Voltaire

                            Comment


                            • Re: Why is feminism seen as a 'fitna' or with negativity on the ummah forum?

                              Originally posted by LailaTheMuslim View Post
                              It's tricky, if you disagree with capitalism then it has some parts that agree with Islam that I can't dismiss?
                              I don't know enough about capitalism to comment
                              the point was modern capitalism did good for people but in created huge disparity of wealth. You don't stick up to defend it claiming it helped some muslims and some aspects of it are compatible with Islam. But forget it.

                              focus on the first paragraph, do you understand what I am saying there?
                              "They are Shuhadaa (witnesses) to the fact that this Deen is greater than life, that values are more important than blood and that principles are more precious than souls" - Sheikh 'Abdullah Azzam

                              Lost in Islamic History :inlove:

                              Comment


                              • Re: Why is feminism seen as a 'fitna' or with negativity on the ummah forum?

                                Originally posted by leela View Post
                                You don't have to embrace the whole ideology to accept and benefit from parts of it which are not contrary to Islam. Particularly in countries where you are unable to implement Islamic law.
                                True, but then why mention the ideology at all? Just mention the the relevant issues. If you want to campaign against DV for example, then say DV. Don't say 'feminism' but then go on to say you meant only the DV part of it...

                                Comment

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