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  • Ex Muslims

    Originally posted by Ex_Muslim View Post
    It is in my opinion that people should not kill others for disagreeing with or critizing their beliefs. If a person attacks Islam verbally, should not Islam be defended verbally? I guess the feelings of many Muslims are very different then, as they do not tolerate any critisicm or attack on their religion.

    I seem to be getting a good idea already of how this issue is perceived by you guys.
    :start:

    La howla wala kowata Ela, Billah.

    Islam is the religion of Allah, the divine religion of God.

    Thus, when people claim to be of it, then leave it, and then spread mischief callers others away from it, death is better to them then continued life.

    It's a mercy, for If they continued, their place in hell would be lower, and lower, and lower.

    We judge law by the belief of an afterlife 100% without a shadow of a doubt.

    Thus, death is not a "bad" thing If it is done to pervent chaos.

    Let's say, a person left Islam, and started calling people away from Islam, through the eyes of Islam, a person is calling people to jump into hellfire, now, would it benefit mankind that this person live or die?

    It would benefit both this person and mankind, of course, that person is first judged and as well as talked to obviously to try and convince him/her to return to Islam and to change their ways.



    Now, again, based on the FACT of an afterlife, exactly as it is described in Islam, everything inch by inch.

    Is it in anyway strict? too much?

    You see, people who are not Muslims, judge with the belief of this life and no afterlife, or a possible afterlife but still with doubt.

    Thus, their judgement is based on a belief, and ours is also based on a belief.

    The belief of an afterlife, the belief of eternal and temporary punishment in hell and to kill the devil when he starts calling people openly.

    Because (since in Islam, we judge based on Islamic beliefs) any person who leaves Islam and then calls others away from it is either: Extremely misguided (doesn't know anything about Islam) or Highly influenced by the devil, arrogant and ignorant, wanting a desire for this world and caring not for his/her afterlife.


    That belief is there because Islam judges by the belief that Islam is 100% the truth.

    Now, based on THESE beliefs, is the punishment harsh?

    You must learn that you are not all-knowing, infinite in wisdom. Only Allah is.

    Until you understand that, you will always think "Oh why do these people follow this ridiculous religion" while in truth, because of their wisdom, they SEE what you do not.


    and what is it? Exactly what I explained to you above, If you were wise, you would not need my explanation on why Islam is fair and just because it believes in an afterlife and thus all judgements are based on that belief and the rest of Islamic beliefs.






    Now, there was no afterlife, If God didn't exist (May Allah forgive me for that is an If that is beyond reality) Then your opinions about judgements in Islam would be understood and agreed upon.


    You see and are enlightened? Or did Allah increase the disease in your heart and cover your eyes and ears with a veil that such a clear explanation walked right by you?
    :start:
    :salams
    To all the Muslims. I am your brother and I love you all for the sake of Allah. May Allah unite the Muslimeen; Ameen.

  • #2
    Re: A Message to All ex-Muslims from A LayMan (don't skip it lazy, click it and read!

    Originally posted by Ex_Muslim View Post
    Okay if you want to know. I am 19 now, and I left Islam 2 years earlier. I am Pakistani in origin. I was, of course, a devout believer for a while, often visiting forums on the internet to defend Islam, but how much has changed since then. After a while of thinking and reasoning, I began to see uncomfrotable things about Islam become more apparent. As a scientist, I began questioning some of the stories and content in the qur'an. A lot of the laws and hadiths too seemed to distress me a lot (see Hadith: "Women are deficent in intelligence to men" and Qu'ran: "Men have been made a few degrees superior to women". At first I had a crisis of fate, not wanting to leave Islam, not wanting to let go of everything I held true, but as time went on, I began to see that Islam was not the truth as I had thought before. After realizing this, I renounced Islam. Of course I cannot tell my family or friends this, as the penalty for leaving Islam is death (another reason why I was convinced Islam is not true). So I must pretend to be a Muslim for my own sake, something which I do not want to do. I have no desire to call other Muslims to leave Islam. I have simply used my own reason and thinking to arrive at the conclusion that I do not believe in Islam, and simply wish to be left alone to my own life. However, it upsets me to see how little tolerance others have for people who leave Islam.
    :start:

    Your fault once again, Is going to Anti-Islamic websites, or reading posts made by trolls, then when not getting a satisfying reply from layman Muslims who barely know anything of the deen you take it as fact.

    Everything you mentioned here I have heard of, and PROPERLY researched, and like I thought it was out of context, mistranslated or misinterpreted or fabricated or all of them at the same time.

    The fact that you succmbed without willing to look further shows your inner desire for Islam NOT to be true, so that you can be free, free to choose to commit all those sins you lusted over your whole life, you let your Shayton overcome you and let these small, explainable unimportant anti-Islamic attempts give you an excuse.


    But the reality is, this excuse of yours will not work when you return to Allah.

    For he knows what is truly in your heart, these things you mentioned and all other anti-Islamic statements and "proofs" are all fallible, all have a rebuttal that is great and all are extremely faulty and rely on the readers lack of knowledge of Islam.

    I have had my doubts, each one was answered with knowledge, you dug enough to renounce your faith and give yourself an excuse before God, but If you had dug further, you'd have found your excuses to be just that... Excuses.
    :start:
    :salams
    To all the Muslims. I am your brother and I love you all for the sake of Allah. May Allah unite the Muslimeen; Ameen.

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: A Message to All ex-Muslims from A LayMan (don't skip it lazy, click it and read!

      Originally posted by Ex_Muslim View Post
      Well I am an athiest/agonistic at least, and I am educated in science. I have a BSc in Biochemistry and Molecular Biology, and a minor in Physics so I do have a great knowledge behind things like the big bang. It is possible for the universe to form from nothing. The idea seems impossible of course, but it really it is a net-zero-energy system, meaning it takes no energy to create the universe. Also, the developments of physics beyond the standard model show that really our universe is one of an infinite number of universes, that form and interact in a higher existence called the multiverse.
      :start:

      The multi-verse is a theory with no psychical proof.

      The mutli-verse is just another attempt at explaining our existence while denying a supereme being (Allah) A creator, almighty is He.

      The Multi-verse has never been proven, infinite does not fit into reality except with God who is outside the laws of the universe that he created.


      The Multi-verse isn't plausible, for it is like saying "If I tried shooting an arrow, at a mark 1 trillion millions away, with a bunch of obstacles in the way and the arrow moved at 1 mile per hour and the mark itself was moving it 1.1 miles per hour towards the right, and this mark was the size of my thumb... that after shooting a googlplex amount of arrows I'd "might" hit the mark.


      Well my friend, If this is the excuse you base your belief's on.. then truly you have no right to crticize Islam.
      :start:
      :salams
      To all the Muslims. I am your brother and I love you all for the sake of Allah. May Allah unite the Muslimeen; Ameen.

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: A Message to All ex-Muslims from A LayMan (don't skip it lazy, click it and read!

        As you've obviously no education in science, here's a good intro to the Mutliverse theory:
        http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=39qmbl7mpJQ

        And your comments about apostasy would deeply distrub any peaceful soul who advocates peace and tolerance, while you advocate fear and death to protect Islam.

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: A Message to All ex-Muslims from A LayMan (don't skip it lazy, click it and read!

          Originally posted by Ex_Muslim View Post
          As you've obviously no education in science, here's a good intro to the Mutliverse theory:
          http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=39qmbl7mpJQ

          And your comments about apostasy would deeply distrub any peaceful soul who advocates peace and tolerance, while you advocate fear and death to protect Islam.
          :start:

          Like Allah said, He increased the disease in your heart and you are veiled.

          Your mocking tone and your "matter of fact" way will not fool me.

          I spoke the truth about the multi-verse, it is implausible, an excuse.

          Or will you start saying "Yeah, it's a theory just like evolution, just like gravity!"

          Gravity has evidence, it remains a theory, yet as a theory it has evidence that is extremely powerful.

          Theories are not equal, each has it's own "scale" the one with more evidence (like gravity) cannot be compared to Evolution, which cannot be compared to the Multi-verse.

          Likewise, the Multi-verse is based upon chance, and no one believes that anymore. That is why Dawkins and his like call Intelligent design "A illusion" and when someone said "How do you think we came to be by chance?" He denied that statement completely, though it is still true, Evolution, Multi-verse, they are all biased. The Scientific community in America has long been corrupted with those who wish for people not to Believe in God.

          Belief in Allah = Morals, a lack of fear of Death.

          And we all know how corrupted the governments are, and we all know that the Sceintific community is funded by governments.

          And we all know that almost every Atheist doesn't have any true and deep understanding of Science, or all viewpoints and angles.

          Rather they only become Atheists out of emotion, a desire for disbelief, provoked by the Shayton.

          And just add the "matter of fact" "Religion is fairytales, we got solid evidence, they only got faith" kind of tone Atheists constantly take, they could convince a frog that it was truly a bird, without giving a shread of evidence.

          That's the only reason Atheism is popular, by Allah, If the devil wasn't on Earth,
          people would see how obviously foolish these many "theories" are.

          The blind will remain blind, no matter how much you wish them to see.

          only Allah can remove your blindness. You are like a man who argues the sky to be green while it is light blue, who argues the Earth is flat, and when we present evidence otherwise you mock.

          Folly is Folly, and your folly is great.
          :start:
          :salams
          To all the Muslims. I am your brother and I love you all for the sake of Allah. May Allah unite the Muslimeen; Ameen.

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: A Message to All ex-Muslims from A LayMan (don't skip it lazy, click it and read!

            Originally posted by Mohamad View Post
            :start:

            Like Allah said, He increased the disease in your heart and you are veiled.

            Your mocking tone and your "matter of fact" way will not fool me.

            I spoke the truth about the multi-verse, it is implausible, an excuse.

            Or will you start saying "Yeah, it's a theory just like evolution, just like gravity!"

            Gravity has evidence, it remains a theory, yet as a theory it has evidence that is extremely powerful.

            Theories are not equal, each has it's own "scale" the one with more evidence (like gravity) cannot be compared to Evolution, which cannot be compared to the Multi-verse.

            Likewise, the Multi-verse is based upon chance, and no one believes that anymore. That is why Dawkins and his like call Intelligent design "A illusion" and when someone said "How do you think we came to be by chance?" He denied that statement completely, though it is still true, Evolution, Multi-verse, they are all biased. The Scientific community in America has long been corrupted with those who wish for people not to Believe in God.

            Belief in Allah = Morals, a lack of fear of Death.

            And we all know how corrupted the governments are, and we all know that the Sceintific community is funded by governments.

            And we all know that almost every Atheist doesn't have any true and deep understanding of Science, or all viewpoints and angles.

            Rather they only become Atheists out of emotion, a desire for disbelief, provoked by the Shayton.

            And just add the "matter of fact" "Religion is fairytales, we got solid evidence, they only got faith" kind of tone Atheists constantly take, they could convince a frog that it was truly a bird, without giving a shread of evidence.

            That's the only reason Atheism is popular, by Allah, If the devil wasn't on Earth,
            people would see how obviously foolish these many "theories" are.

            The blind will remain blind, no matter how much you wish them to see.

            only Allah can remove your blindness. You are like a man who argues the sky to be green while it is light blue, who argues the Earth is flat, and when we present evidence otherwise you mock.

            Folly is Folly, and your folly is great.
            You accuse me and other scientists of being ignorant and admant about disbelieving in God, but your words demonstrate how woefully hopeless and brainwashed you are. You spout unsubstantiated and unferenced claims, consisting of nonsense and outright lies, yet you accuse me of witholding or masking the truth? Ridiculous.

            There is NO evidence for religion, all you nutjobs do is go around masquerading that there is, but when asked to produce it, come up empty handed or spout pseud-scientific crap. You have no knowleddge or education in science, yet you go around making fun of those who do, saying you know better than all the scientists in America and the world. You are the arrogrant one.

            What's more you advocate that all apostates and blasphemers be put to the death. You are violent and brutal. But what does it matter to you? It is God's "law" after all.

            I am done here. I will invite others to look at the threads about apostasy I created, to see Islam for what it really is. Let them judge Islam straight from the words of Muslims. You have chosen your own way, I will scincerely try to make sure others don't end up in the same extremist, bloody, and horrifying mindset you and these other Muslims have.

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: A Message to All ex-Muslims from A LayMan (don't skip it lazy, click it and read!

              Originally posted by Mohamad View Post
              It's a mercy, for If they continued, their place in hell would be lower, and lower, and lower.
              So killing apostates is actually a mercy to them. (Because instead of suffering a really, really, really painful torment forever they will only suffer a really, really painful torment forever.)

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: A Message to All ex-Muslims from A LayMan (don't skip it lazy, click it and read!

                Originally posted by thinkinghuman View Post
                So killing apostates is actually a mercy to them. (Because instead of suffering a really, really, really painful torment forever they will only suffer a really, really painful torment forever.)
                :start:

                You got it! Btw, don't forget, to Hitler, killing jews was justice, and his Natzi's believed it too.

                So don't start trying to judge Allah's judgement, Hell maybe eternal, but it's your choice in the end to enter it, and Heaven is the best, everything I desire and things I never even heard/seen/felt/smelt/tasted yet I will love instantly when I do..

                It's like this, go back 500 years, and the laws of America would be waaaay to soft.

                Go forward in time 1000 years, and we might be clipping the theives nails or cutting a serial killers hair and then saying how barbaric laws were "back then"

                So don't forget, justice is seen differently depending on where/how/when you were raised, and your own soul.

                To claim hell is unjust is to claim you know what right and wrong is, but you do know what right in wrong is! TO YOU, other then the basic foundations all mankind are built on, that is only where we agree, other than that, that instinct encoded into our being, we can differ and right and wrong is judged by majority rather then justice.

                What is justice? Whatever Allah says justice is,
                He created the concept, heck, He created everything!

                So, don't big up you!!
                :start:
                :salams
                To all the Muslims. I am your brother and I love you all for the sake of Allah. May Allah unite the Muslimeen; Ameen.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: A Message to All ex-Muslims from A LayMan (don't skip it lazy, click it and read!

                  Originally posted by thinkinghuman View Post
                  So killing apostates is actually a mercy to them. (Because instead of suffering a really, really, really painful torment forever they will only suffer a really, really painful torment forever.)
                  Straight up.

                  Ibn Umar was asked, �Did the sahaba laugh?� He said, �Yes, and the faith in their hearts was like mountains.�

                  "You can not be the ummah that will call the world to goodness if you hate everybody else" - Nouman Ali Khan

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: A Message to All ex-Muslims from A LayMan (don't skip it lazy, click it and read!

                    Does is not disturb you at all that people like Abdurahman Green, Yusuf Estes and many others have the freedom (and in some cases Charity status and government grants!) to reject their religion and become Muslim and then go on TV, give lectures, write books promoting and converting people to their new religion while criticising and dismantling their old religion - yet if a Muslim leaves his religion he is executed in an Islamic State?

                    Doesn't the double standards bother you at all?

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: A Message to All ex-Muslims from A LayMan (don't skip it lazy, click it and read!

                      Originally posted by thinkinghuman View Post
                      Does is not disturb you at all that people like Abdurahman Green, Yusuf Estes and many others have the freedom (and in some cases Charity status and government grants!) to reject their religion and become Muslim and then go on TV, give lectures, write books promoting and converting people to their new religion while criticising and dismantling their old religion - yet if a Muslim leaves his religion he is executed in an Islamic State?

                      Doesn't the double standards bother you at all?
                      :start:

                      No, because Islam in the truth and the rest of the religions are corrupted falsehoods that were once truth.

                      Thus Islam is exempt from being compared to them.

                      "All religions say that" Yes they do, doesn't matter though.

                      Also, when they come on screen talking about their religions they don't say Ex-Christian, Ex-Catholic,

                      Nor do they accuse their old religions of extremism, nor do they insult the followers, nor do they insult the Prophets (peace be upon them) Nor do they insult Allah Himself and claim "Christians worship a different God" like these "Ex-Muslims" claim.


                      But nontheless, Islam is from the divine, and it is exempt from being compared to falsehood. For Islam judges by the belief Islam is the truth, like I said earlier, so from OUR point of view it isn't wrong, even If it is from yours, for you judge with the belief that Islam IS NOT true.
                      :start:
                      :salams
                      To all the Muslims. I am your brother and I love you all for the sake of Allah. May Allah unite the Muslimeen; Ameen.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: A Message to All ex-Muslims from A LayMan (don't skip it lazy, click it and read!

                        Originally posted by Mohamad View Post
                        :start:

                        Like Allah said, He increased the disease in your heart and you are veiled.

                        Your mocking tone and your "matter of fact" way will not fool me.

                        I spoke the truth about the multi-verse, it is implausible, an excuse.

                        Or will you start saying "Yeah, it's a theory just like evolution, just like gravity!"

                        Gravity has evidence, it remains a theory, yet as a theory it has evidence that is extremely powerful.

                        Theories are not equal, each has it's own "scale" the one with more evidence (like gravity) cannot be compared to Evolution, which cannot be compared to the Multi-verse.

                        Likewise, the Multi-verse is based upon chance, and no one believes that anymore. That is why Dawkins and his like call Intelligent design "A illusion" and when someone said "How do you think we came to be by chance?" He denied that statement completely, though it is still true, Evolution, Multi-verse, they are all biased. The Scientific community in America has long been corrupted with those who wish for people not to Believe in God.

                        Belief in Allah = Morals, a lack of fear of Death.

                        And we all know how corrupted the governments are, and we all know that the Sceintific community is funded by governments.

                        And we all know that almost every Atheist doesn't have any true and deep understanding of Science, or all viewpoints and angles.

                        Rather they only become Atheists out of emotion, a desire for disbelief, provoked by the Shayton.

                        And just add the "matter of fact" "Religion is fairytales, we got solid evidence, they only got faith" kind of tone Atheists constantly take, they could convince a frog that it was truly a bird, without giving a shread of evidence.

                        That's the only reason Atheism is popular, by Allah, If the devil wasn't on Earth,
                        people would see how obviously foolish these many "theories" are.

                        The blind will remain blind, no matter how much you wish them to see.

                        only Allah can remove your blindness. You are like a man who argues the sky to be green while it is light blue, who argues the Earth is flat, and when we present evidence otherwise you mock.

                        Folly is Folly, and your folly is great.
                        You are extremely incorrect in your assertion that there is a hidden "bias" for scientists and athiests (even though the two are not one and the same) look desperately for ways to subvert religion. This is simply a fallback or excuse to avoid the real and hard questions about the world.

                        There is no controversy amongst scientists about evolution. It is the unifying foundation of all of biology. Granted one must not be knowledgeable in evolution to learn about other aspects about biology, but when one is studying it as a whole, evolution unifies and explains a plethora of things in the biological sciences, and is one of the most fundamental aspects of it. It itself is a fully developed theory, backed by over 150 years of molecular, genetic, and fossil evidence. A study done in 1987 by Martz and McDaniel found that only 0.146% of scientists deny evolution. Denial is mainly amongst the scientific illiterate and religious extremist factions of the average population, which this forum clearly represents.

                        Moreover a scientific "theory" is not a bunch of random guesses laid forth by desperate athiests trying to disprove all religions. A "hypothesis" is the correct term for an educated guess. Rather, a theory is an extensively developed model to explain how a natural process occurs, that has been verified numerous times by experiments and scientific scrutiny. Of course many aspects of evolutionary theory remain to be resolved, such as the relationship between the charophytes and bryophytes in the Plant Kingdom. More years of genetic studies would reveal that answer.

                        You have no credibility to criticize the multiverse theory except on scientific grounds. Currently, it enjoys a great deal of support amongst scientists. Those who argue against it, often support alternate explainations, such as a cyclical universe (the universe contracting and expanding in repeated cycles). However, the issue of entropy remains with that theory, while the multiverse solves it, as well as conforming to most of the other observed evidence we have in the universe today. For example, the total energy of the universe is zero. If you add up all the energy (matter is simply a form of congealed engery) and negative energy (which is gravity) you get a value of zero. Likewise, if you add up all the positive and negative charges you get zero. Similarly for the spin of the universe, the total value is zero. What does this mean? That the universe is a net-zero energy system, meaning that no energy is needed to create the universe. Furthermore, the goal to unite the Standard Model of physics and Einstien's Theory of General Relativity is what gave rise to numerous post Standard Model theories, the best and most developed being String Theory. It is in the mathematical predictions of existence formulated by String Theory that the multiverse arises. It is not some wild guess thrown out by intellectuals, but a result of carefully sculpted and advanced mathematical models of the universe. Essentially, String Theory predicts that all energy is fundamentally a unit of vibrating "strings" (a metaphor really, it's just a unit of energy). The theory solves some of the greatest mysteries in physics today, like why gravity is the weakest of all the four fundamental forces, as well as giving insight into what Dark Matter may be. It also predicts the existence of 11 dimensions, 7 of which are too compactified for particles above the fundamental forces to exhibit. Moreover, the multiverse is also a prediction of this theory, as it makes great mathematical and practical sense. Some more reading would be reccomended: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M-theory

                        You are committing the same mistakes the christians made 500 years ago with your denial of scientific truths like evolution. Be careful you don't go down the same road as them. They silenced all who would dare to say the earth went around the sun, because they felt their religion commanded them to believe otherwise. You are doing the exact same.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: A Message to All ex-Muslims from A LayMan (don't skip it lazy, click it and read!

                          Originally posted by Mohamad View Post
                          :start:

                          No, because Islam is the truth and the rest of the religions are corrupted falsehoods...

                          Thus Islam is exempt from being compared to them.

                          "All religions say that" Yes they do, doesn't matter though.
                          Ah yes, the old: "I'm right you're wrong, go to Hell!" attitude.

                          My friend, I'm afraid the only "truth" here is that this is simply your belief.

                          At best you have arrived at it through your own personal contemplation and perspectives - though more likely as a result of being born to a Muslim family and forming an emotional bond to it.

                          It is wrong to deny other people's right to tread their own path and find their own way according to their own conscience and perspective. Even more wrong to kill them for it.
                          Last edited by thinkinghuman; 05-03-13, 11:23 AM.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: A Message to All ex-Muslims from A LayMan (don't skip it lazy, click it and read!

                            Originally posted by Mohamad View Post
                            :start:

                            No, because Islam in the truth and the rest of the religions are corrupted falsehoods that were once truth.

                            Thus Islam is exempt from being compared to them.

                            "All religions say that" Yes they do, doesn't matter though.

                            Also, when they come on screen talking about their religions they don't say Ex-Christian, Ex-Catholic,

                            Nor do they accuse their old religions of extremism, nor do they insult the followers, nor do they insult the Prophets (peace be upon them) Nor do they insult Allah Himself and claim "Christians worship a different God" like these "Ex-Muslims" claim.


                            But nontheless, Islam is from the divine, and it is exempt from being compared to falsehood. For Islam judges by the belief Islam is the truth, like I said earlier, so from OUR point of view it isn't wrong, even If it is from yours, for you judge with the belief that Islam IS NOT true.
                            I think the point is that is okay for you to hold your own viewpoints and believe Islam is superior to other religions.

                            It is not okay for you to FORCE others to do the same. You cannot force a disbelieving former Muslim to remain in Islam, as then that belief would be hypocritical and shallow. If Islam is really better than all the other religions it should start showing it by demonstrating itself as a rational and perfect religion. However, killing anyone who leaves it shows it otherwise.

                            You are aware that many Muslims strongly believe against the death penalty for apostasy? They are just as much as angry with those that claim ex-muslims should die, as you yourself are with ex-muslims.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Re: A Message to All ex-Muslims from A LayMan (don't skip it lazy, click it and read!

                              You live your life based on theories and believe a theory rather than god's word because your a scientist, please drop your arrogance you not smart at all, you're a fool.
                              O you who have believed, if you obey those who disbelieve, they will turn you back on your heels, and you will [then] become losers.

                              Comment

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