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Whenever I try to be religious, people tell me I'm being 'extreme'?

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  • #31
    Re: Whenever I try to be religious, people tell me I'm being 'extreme'?

    is he the only one you worry about? Or maybe you think 'salafis/wahhabis' are not included in them because you constantly slander them without any reference being made to them.
    here is the link to it. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q6jKlgiOpPM
    if you want to discuss this make another friend.
    Sorry op for the derailing
    O you who have believed, if you obey those who disbelieve, they will turn you back on your heels, and you will [then] become losers.

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    • #32
      Re: Whenever I try to be religious, people tell me I'm being 'extreme'?

      First of all we dont ever get to see him actually, but in case it is him. It's obviously an honest mistake in the hurry of his lecture. A rather odd analogy to make his point. But you shoudnl't put any further meaning in it such as it actually being the way he feels. Are you seriously suggesting that someone who has given most of his life to become and alim and learn about Islam in reality but in secrecy is a zionist non-muslim as the video description suggests? It's an honest mistake and clearly not to be understood literally. If you are not convinced of this and still truly believe in a "al-Qaradawi's-conspiracy" you should go to his website and ask him or his accistents. Ofcourse you wont do this, either because you have so little respect for non-salafist ulamaa that you won't even talk to them, or because you know deep inside that this was a simple mistake from an old man with no intention of shirk behind it. Still. This mistake does not invalidate in anyway his words on the unauthenticity of the primary hadith used as evidence for the prohibition of music. Just because your math teacher accidently in the rush of the moment says that 2+2 equals 5, doesn't mean he actually believes so and that his theories on I dunno.. Fermat's Last Theorem automatically become invalid. No reason to stick to a such incredibly simple (but still if intentional extremely sinful) remark, and hence reject ALL his remarks, lectures and 120 books. If anything this just acts as proof for the narrowmindness of SOME salafists (fortunately not all). If your still not able to look past this (wich I'm sure your not) you can among others read Ibn Hazm's rejection of the same Hadith. Or you can listen to Bukhari himself in "Hadith al Ma'azif", where he himself narrated the Hadith to be of a broken chain of narrators. Or you can go with famous hadith scholar Ibn Hajar who in in his book "Tahthib at-Tahthib", mentions that Hisham ibn Amaar is not reliable to be a source of a narration. Or you can trust imam Ahmad Bin Hanbal who described Hisham ibn Ammar as "reckless, impetuous and feeble-minded" and hence did not accept his testimony. And I can go on. But will it ever be proof enough for you? No. Why not? Because no salafist alim has confirmed this, and unless they do you will always believe in the hadith, despite the great possibility that your in fact your just following the words of a lier rather than the profet himself. Which is fine with me, its your choice, no problem. Again I repeat that my intention is not to convince you to follow the stance of other ulamaa, I'm merely trying to proof the reality when it comes to the permissibility of music, that is ikhtilaf. Which means you cannot as many on this forum already have, condemn a persons choice to listen to music just because you follow different ulamaa.
      Last edited by drmo92; 21-11-12, 08:13 PM.

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      • #33
        Re: Whenever I try to be religious, people tell me I'm being 'extreme'?

        A few modern scholars differing with generations of scholars before them on this issue is not "ikhtilaf", the ruling is unanimous across the mathaahib, they didn't all misunderstand it so that some dubious modern scholar can become suddenly "enlightened" as to its halal nature.

        But the truth is, people like that simply must exist, because the Prophet :saw: warned of them 1400+ years ago and what he says comes to pass, always.
        والمبادرة إلى التكفير إنما تغلب على طباع من يغلب عليهم الجهل - ابن تيمية رحمه الله - بغية المرتاد

        "Rushing towards takfir is an attitude which is dominant over those who are defeated by ignorance." - Ibn Taymiyyah Rahimahullah [Bughyatul Murtaad, page 354]

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        • #34
          Re: Whenever I try to be religious, people tell me I'm being 'extreme'?

          Originally posted by drmo92 View Post
          Some ulamaa completely forbid it while others allow music as such (exceptions being music with haram in it like sexual words and such). They have their explainations for the ahadith that candyapple posted. As far as the first one goes for example some ulamaa believe it to have been specifically for the muslims that the prophet spoke to at that very exact moment, as they claim that musical instruments was back then a part of the worshipping in faiths that kuffar followed. The same goes for ahadith that describe women issues such as traveling alone or living alone. These were forbidden in the prophets era due to the danger of that era and many after it. But there are many places today, especially in the west, where kidnapping, murder, rape and such is practically non-existing, the ban on women traveling and living alone is uplifted. My point is that according to many ulamaa, in many cases the ahadith narrated by the prophet are not to be understood as universal for all muslims, but rather formulated by the prophet specifically for the muslims back then and their specific situation which often is very different than ours today (the world changes). The quoted hadith on music is one of these cases. Among other ulamaa who hold the stance that music is allowed include but are not resstricted to Al-Ghazali, al-Izz ibn Abd al-Salam, Al-Qurtubi, Al-Shawkani, Abu Bakr ibn al-Arabi, Ibn Sina, Ibn Rushd, and Ibn Hazm. With that being said I KNOW that there are also plenty of scholars who deem it haram. As a result one can only conclude that there is no consensus among ulamaa on the subject of music and has never been. A clear fatwa on the permissablity of music comes from the widely recognized still living egyptian scholar sheikh Ali Gomaa. You can read it on http://www.ali-gomaa.com/?page=fatwas&fatwa_details=86

          My point is not to convince others to believe as I do, but to present to them reality of disagreement among scholars on certain subjects where others portray their fatwa as the one and only existing. There is ikhtilaf and people have the right to chose for themselves between the different oppinions of ulamaa without being condemned by the far extreme wings of our ummah. I am not as someone hinted commiting any sins by presenting the oppionion of other ulamaa. Alot of muslims in the ummah need to learn to be less narrowminded and respect (not nessescarily follow) what ALL ulama say rather than just their own.
          All 4 madhabs say it's haram.
          "The organisation that is called as "the state" puts effort to destroy jihad in Sham as they destroyed it in Iraq because of their obvious transgressions against Quran and Sunnah." Abu Khalid as-Suri (Rahimahullah)

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