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Is this an Islamic ruling?

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  • #31
    Re: Is this an Islamic ruling?

    Originally posted by Massilia View Post
    There isn't a law set as far as i know. Depends on the circumstances, usually the least well-off whether man or woman is getting more. Like if X has a job and Y hasn't, it is very likely that X will need to move because he/she has the means to find a place, this is for the middle-class.

    If both have jobs, well it will be 50-50 simple, and if there are children most likely assets will go to the one who has custody.

    For the richer, i guess, the one who has the best lawyer wins lol.

    For council houses, she can ask I guess, sometimes the nikkah is not declared, therefore they are concubines in the eyes of the law. However, due to abuses, very few imams in France accept to marry without a civil union in the city hall.
    It's pretty similar here. Community property states divide everything 50/50. Others do what is called "equitable division", meaning whatever your lawyer can convince the judge is what you should get. Child support is a given but usually appointed based on custody. If custody is 50/50, no one gets child support (in theory...in practice it's usually "you pay the soccer fees, I'll pay summer camp"). Sole custody to women is basically a thing of the past except if there's history of abuse. Alimony is also rarely appointed except if the mother stayed at home. Then it's usually time-bound for like five years, in theory giving her time to go to school and get a job.

    In practice both sides suffer financially after the divorce, and children suffer, too. I did a quick back-of-the-envelope calculation once of the hit the children would take in case of divorce, and it came to like a million dollars over eighteen years. Divorce is expensive!

    Here, too, legitimate imams will not officiate weddings without a marriage license. I know ours insisted he must see it ahead of time.
    Last edited by n_n_n; 20-11-12, 01:29 AM.

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    • #32
      Re: Is this an Islamic ruling?

      Originally posted by Massilia View Post
      I didn't ask for a dissertation,
      My answer was not a dissertation ! It was what islam says about woman rights after the divorce !

      Originally posted by Massilia View Post
      it was a yes/no question
      Your question CANNOT be answered with a mere yes or no !

      Originally posted by Massilia View Post
      and i don"t have time to deal with people still thinking like everyone has a family to go back to
      Well, you only want to deal with people thinking like you ! it's hard to find since people think differently, and you asked in a forum !

      Originally posted by Massilia View Post
      it is kind of annoying at the end of the day
      Sorry to annoy you, that was not my intention.

      One advice to sister : Please give special attention when accepting Islam ruling, as it could be complicated sometimes and you may not like it. Remember That we, muslims, follow Allah and we do and don't along His commands and forbiddance, not as we wish and go ask any scholar or imam your question, am 100% sure they will ask you full details about the situation before they say anything ! but before you go, talk with Allah and ask him for guidance in this matter and promise you will follow Him no matter you like answer or not !
      ...worship Allah as though you see Him, and though you do not see Him, you know that He sees you...

      Comment


      • #33
        Re: Is this an Islamic ruling?

        Yes i can have a yes or no answer. Some people just like turning around the pot.


        I don't need your advice, i haven't asked an opinion, i asked for a ruling. This is not about me

        Well, you only want to deal with people thinking like you ! it's hard to find since people think differently, and you asked in a forum !
        I find it annoying that people believe everyone has a family. It has nothing to do with my opinion, I don't take families for granted for everyone
        My Blog http://historyeyesopened.tumblr.com/ Watch out sister Nousername :o
        Ummah forum mentality depiction by BBC (warning) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LS37SNYjg8w

        Comment


        • #34
          Re: Is this an Islamic ruling?

          Originally posted by Massilia View Post
          Yes i can have a yes or no answer. Some people just like turning around the pot.
          I don't like turning around the pot, you presumed that !

          Originally posted by Massilia View Post
          I don't need your advice
          Originally posted by Massilia View Post
          i haven't asked an opinion, i asked for a ruling. This is not about me
          I did not give you my opinion, I told you the ruling of islam that scholars said about this situation and it clearly wasn't a Yes or No answer from them. You can easily check it inshaAllah.

          Originally posted by Massilia View Post
          I find it annoying that people believe everyone has a family. It has nothing to do with my opinion, I don't take families for granted for everyone
          I never said that, I just asked where and how the divorced woman lived before marriage, that's all ! You presumed that, sister.
          ...worship Allah as though you see Him, and though you do not see Him, you know that He sees you...

          Comment


          • #35
            Re: Is this an Islamic ruling?

            Originally posted by n_n_n View Post
            Out of curiosity, what is the law like in France when it comes to division of joint assets? If they are middle class/rich, surely there is something to be divided? Can she not go to court and argue that SHE needs to stay in the house and HE needs to find alternative arrangements?
            we dont marry in the law of the land so we would not take such things through a court, and a woman has no right to her husbands property upon divorce. In islam, a mans property is his property, and his money is his money, the wifes money is her money, her property is her property, a persons personal assets cannot be divided upon divorce between spouses, this is stealing. if they pool their money together and buy a property outright for cash ( we dont do mortgage) then they must draw up a contract between them of shared ownership and on divorce they can either buy their others share outright in cash, or they can sell the property and each gets their cash back equally.

            when a woman marries she will leave the care of her father and she will go to her husbands house, if she gets divorced then she will go back to the care of her father ( or if he is dead then her muslim grandfather, or her blood uncles, her adult son etc etc ) who are personally responsible for her maintainance as long as she is not married, There is always a man responsible for the womans maintainance and protection in islam, she is never responsible for that herself.

            now obviously in the west, and seeing as there is no country on earth governing by shariah law where islam is practiced, then we are seek the help of Allah ta ala in all our affairs, and truely Allah does not let us down alhamdulillah, always there is a way forward.

            my husband masha Allah, is of the opinion that as this is the situation we live in, that a man cannot divorce his wife, and leave her without provision and a home after divorce, he must provide for her a place of saftey and comfort if she has no muslim father, or anywhere to go he says as it was the husband who took her from security, then he must as her muslim brother even after divorce return her to security, as his wife was an ammanah from Allah ta ala, and still should be treated as such even upon divorce.

            some men sadly will not have such understanding of their deen,and you may therefore see situations where less than this is being practiced and sisters are not being treated with proper regard or with good treatment that is enjoined by islam, even during divorce, audu billah.
            "O you who believe! Stand out firmly for justice, as witnesses to Allah, even as against yourselves, or your parents, or your kin, and whether it be (against) rich or poor: for Allah can best protect both. Follow not the lusts (of your hearts), lest you swerve, and if you distort (justice) or decline to do justice, verily Allah is well-acquainted with all that you do." [An-Nisa 4:135]

            The Prophet :saw: said:

            "Whosoever leaves off obedience and separates from the Jamaa'ah and dies, he dies a death of jaahiliyyah. Whoever fights under the banner of the blind, becoming angry for 'asabiyyah (nationalism/tribalism/partisanship) or calling to 'asabiyyah, or assisting 'asabiyyah, then dies, he dies a death of jaahiliyyah."

            muslim

            Narrated 'Abdullah:

            The Prophet, said, "Abusing a Muslim is Fusuq (evil doing) and killing him is Kufr (disbelief)." sahih bukhari


            "Creeping upon you is the diseases of those people before you: envy and hatred. And hatred is the thing that shaves. I do not say it shaves the hair but it shaves the religion!

            By the One in whose Hand is my soul, you will not enter paradise until you believe, and you will not believe until you love one another. Certainly, let me inform you of that which may establish such things: spread the greetings and peace among yourselves."

            [Recorded by Imam Ahmad and Al-Tirmidhi]

            Comment


            • #36
              Re: Is this an Islamic ruling?

              Why is there even a three month period?

              Comment


              • #37
                Re: Is this an Islamic ruling?

                Originally posted by *asiya* View Post
                we dont marry in the law of the land so we would not take such things through a court, and a woman has no right to her husbands property upon divorce. In islam, a mans property is his property, and his money is his money, the wifes money is her money, her property is her property, a persons personal assets cannot be divided upon divorce between spouses, this is stealing. if they pool their money together and buy a property outright for cash ( we dont do mortgage) then they must draw up a contract between them of shared ownership and on divorce they can either buy their others share outright in cash, or they can sell the property and each gets their cash back equally.

                when a woman marries she will leave the care of her father and she will go to her husbands house, if she gets divorced then she will go back to the care of her father ( or if he is dead then her muslim grandfather, or her blood uncles, her adult son etc etc ) who are personally responsible for her maintainance as long as she is not married, There is always a man responsible for the womans maintainance and protection in islam, she is never responsible for that herself.
                I do think you meant to say "should" and "should not" vis-a-vis "will" and "is", since a cursory look at reality clearly contradicts the picture you painted.

                Not "we don't do mortgages", but "we shouldn't do mortgages". Not "there is always a man", but "there should always be a man". Etc.

                Because Muslims, obviously, do marry under the law of the land, get mortgages and divide assets in court. And there isn't always a man willing and able to take the woman on.
                Last edited by n_n_n; 20-11-12, 09:59 PM.

                Comment


                • #38
                  Re: Is this an Islamic ruling?

                  Originally posted by *asiya* View Post

                  now obviously in the west, and seeing as there is no country on earth governing by shariah law where islam is practiced, then we are seek the help of Allah ta ala in all our affairs, and truely Allah does not let us down alhamdulillah, always there is a way forward.

                  my husband masha Allah, is of the opinion that as this is the situation we live in, that a man cannot divorce his wife, and leave her without provision and a home after divorce, he must provide for her a place of saftey and comfort if she has no muslim father, or anywhere to go he says as it was the husband who took her from security, then he must as her muslim brother even after divorce return her to security, as his wife was an ammanah from Allah ta ala, and still should be treated as such even upon divorce.

                  some men sadly will not have such understanding of their deen,and you may therefore see situations where less than this is being practiced and sisters are not being treated with proper regard or with good treatment that is enjoined by islam, even during divorce, audu billah.
                  This is what i find stunning (ironically obviously). They're not married anymore, but the bond brotherhood just goes into the toilets, it's over. You've finished with the furniture and now, it is just on the street.
                  I honestly don't understand how they can sleep at night knowing their ex-wife and very often child don't have anywhere to go. It's inhuman, and frankly quite shameful. Bashing the West day and night, and yet they're the ones paying for shelter for their supposed sisters. Look at where gheerah has gone now, there is no such talks now.

                  Khair inchallah, im glad it is an eye-opening, and i hope sistes will take the hint one day.
                  My Blog http://historyeyesopened.tumblr.com/ Watch out sister Nousername :o
                  Ummah forum mentality depiction by BBC (warning) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LS37SNYjg8w

                  Comment


                  • #39
                    Re: Is this an Islamic ruling?

                    Originally posted by Hassang View Post
                    [*]If there are kids, the father MUST give provisions, house, teaching and caring until they grow up.
                    How, exactly, do you provide housing for the child without providing housing for the mother, if the mother has custody?

                    Give them enough money to rent a kid's room but not an entire house?

                    Curious.

                    Comment


                    • #40
                      Re: Is this an Islamic ruling?

                      Originally posted by n_n_n View Post
                      I do think you meant to say "should" and "should not" vis-a-vis "will" and "is", since a cursory look at reality clearly contradicts the picture you painted.

                      Not "we don't do mortgages", but "we shouldn't do mortgages". Not "there is always a man", but "there should always be a man". Etc.

                      Because Muslims, obviously, do marry under the law of the land, get mortgages and divide assets in court. And there isn't always a man willing and able to take the woman on.
                      Im speaking about what muslims do ( the definition of a muslim being one who submits to Allah ) youre talking about what muslims who disobey Allah do.
                      "O you who believe! Stand out firmly for justice, as witnesses to Allah, even as against yourselves, or your parents, or your kin, and whether it be (against) rich or poor: for Allah can best protect both. Follow not the lusts (of your hearts), lest you swerve, and if you distort (justice) or decline to do justice, verily Allah is well-acquainted with all that you do." [An-Nisa 4:135]

                      The Prophet :saw: said:

                      "Whosoever leaves off obedience and separates from the Jamaa'ah and dies, he dies a death of jaahiliyyah. Whoever fights under the banner of the blind, becoming angry for 'asabiyyah (nationalism/tribalism/partisanship) or calling to 'asabiyyah, or assisting 'asabiyyah, then dies, he dies a death of jaahiliyyah."

                      muslim

                      Narrated 'Abdullah:

                      The Prophet, said, "Abusing a Muslim is Fusuq (evil doing) and killing him is Kufr (disbelief)." sahih bukhari


                      "Creeping upon you is the diseases of those people before you: envy and hatred. And hatred is the thing that shaves. I do not say it shaves the hair but it shaves the religion!

                      By the One in whose Hand is my soul, you will not enter paradise until you believe, and you will not believe until you love one another. Certainly, let me inform you of that which may establish such things: spread the greetings and peace among yourselves."

                      [Recorded by Imam Ahmad and Al-Tirmidhi]

                      Comment


                      • #41
                        Re: Is this an Islamic ruling?

                        Originally posted by Massilia View Post
                        This is what i find stunning (ironically obviously). They're not married anymore, but the bond brotherhood just goes into the toilets, it's over. You've finished with the furniture and now, it is just on the street.
                        I honestly don't understand how they can sleep at night knowing their ex-wife and very often child don't have anywhere to go. It's inhuman, and frankly quite shameful. Bashing the West day and night, and yet they're the ones paying for shelter for their supposed sisters. Look at where gheerah has gone now, there is no such talks now.
                        Khair inchallah, im glad it is an eye-opening, and i hope sistes will take the hint one day.
                        Who are you blaming sister ? you should not generalize the bad deeds of some men to all muslim men !
                        Throwing a sister in the street IS NOT ISLAMIC,
                        And yes, the topic you started is a good reminder for the sisters, so they choose their husband carefully !

                        Originally posted by n_n_n View Post
                        How, exactly, do you provide housing for the child without providing housing for the mother, if the mother has custody?
                        Give them enough money to rent a kid's room but not an entire house?
                        Curious.
                        Who said without the mother ?! of course kids should be with their mother in the house provided by the man !
                        ...worship Allah as though you see Him, and though you do not see Him, you know that He sees you...

                        Comment


                        • #42
                          Re: Is this an Islamic ruling?

                          Originally posted by Hassang View Post
                          Who said without the mother ?! of course kids should be with their mother in the house provided by the man !
                          I think if you said that from the beginning, much of the acrimony between the two of you could have been avoided.

                          Comment


                          • #43
                            Re: Is this an Islamic ruling?

                            Originally posted by n_n_n View Post
                            I think if you said that from the beginning, much of the acrimony between the two of you could have been avoided.
                            There was no acrimony inshaAllah, we all need to ask what we need to ask ! Brothers and sisters are patient have mercy between each others !
                            ...worship Allah as though you see Him, and though you do not see Him, you know that He sees you...

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