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    Re: Does Islam require hate??

    We maust hate sahitan...but thats as far as i know hate goes?

    Comment


      Re: Does Islam require hate??

      Originally posted by FijiMuslim View Post
      We maust hate sahitan...but thats as far as i know hate goes?
      May I ask, how dangerous is satan really, if I can get an answer here I dont need to make a thread! Thanks

      Comment


        Re: Does Islam require hate??

        RE: the OP.

        If you fall under any of the catagories stated after "Allah loves not..." then we Muslims also do not love you. That doesn't mean we will actively persecute those people who can be Muslim or kufr, it simply means that you do not benefit from being amongst those that Allah ta'ala and the people of Allah ta'ala love(without repentance).

        (2:190) And fight in the way of ALLAH against those who fight against you, but do not transgress. Surely, ALLAH loves not the transgressors.

        (2:195) And spend in the cause of ALLAH, and cast not yourselves into ruin with your own hands, and do good; surely ALLAH loves those who do good.

        (2:205) And when he is in authority, he runs about in the land to create disorder in it and destroys the tilth and the progeny of man; and ALLAH loves not disorder.

        (2:222) And they ask thee concerning menstruation. Say, `It is a harmful thing, so keep away from women during menstruation, and go not in unto them until they are clean. But when they have cleansed themselves, go in unto them as ALLAH has commanded you. ALLAH loves those who keep themselves clean.'

        (2:276) ALLAH will blot out interest and will cause charity to increase. And ALLAH loves not anyone who is a confirmed disbeliever and an arch-sinner.

        (3:32) Say, `Obey ALLAH and HIS Messenger;' but if they turn away, then remember that ALLAH loves not the disbelievers.

        (3:57) `And as for those who believe and do good works, HE will give them
        their full rewards. And ALLAH loves not the wrongdoers.'

        (3:76) Nay, but whoso fulfills his pledge and fears ALLAH -verily, ALLAH loves those who fear Him.

        (3:134) Those, who spends in prosperity and adversity, and those who suppress anger, and pardon men; and ALLAH loves those who do good;

        (3:140) If you have received an injury, surely the disbelieving people have already received a similar injury. And such days WE cause to alternate among men that they may be admonished, and that ALLAH may cause to be distinguished those who believe and may take witnesses from among you; and ALLAH loves not the unjust.

        (3:146) And many a Prophet there has been beside whom fought numerous companies of their followers. They slacken not for aught that befell them in the way of ALLAH nor did they weaken, nor did they humiliate themselves before the enemy. And ALLAH loves the steadfast.

        (3:148) So ALLAH gave them the reward of this world, and also an excellent reward of the Hereafter; and ALLAH loves those who do good.

        (3:159) And it is by the great mercy of ALLAH that thou art kind towards them, and if thou hadst been rough and hard-hearted, they would surely have dispersed from around thee. So pardon them and ask forgiveness for them, and consult them in matters of administration; and when thou art resolved, then put thy trust in ALLAH. Surely, ALLAH loves those who put their trust in HIM.

        (4:36) And worship ALLAH and associate naught with HIM, and show kindness to parents, and to kindred, and orphans, and the needy, and to the neighbour who is a kinsman and the neighbour who is a stranger, and the companion by your side, and the wayfarer, and those whom your right hands possess. Surely, ALLAH loves not the arrogant and the boastful;

        (4:107) And plead not on behalf of those who are dishonest to themselves. Surely, ALLAH loves not one who is perfidious and a great sinner.

        (5:13) So, because of their breaking of the covenant, WE have cursed them and have hardened their hearts. They pervert the words from their proper places and have forgotten a good part of that with which they were exhorted. And thou wilt not cease to discover treachery on their part, except a few of them. So pardon them and show forbearance. Surely ALLAH loves those who do good to others.

        (5:42) They are eager listeners to falsehood, devourers of things forbidden. If, then, they come to thee for judgment, judge between them or turn aside from them. And if thou turn aside from them, they cannot harm thee at all. And if thou judge, judge between them with justice. Surely ALLAH loves those who are just.

        (5:87) O ye who believe ! make not unlawful the good things which ALLAH has made lawful for you, and do not transgress. Surely ALLAH loves not the transgressors.

        (5:93) On those who believe and do good works there shall be no sin for what they eat, provided they fear ALLAH and believe and do good works, and again fear ALLAH and believe, yet again fear ALLAH and do good. And ALLAH loves those who do good.

        (6:141) And HE it is Who produces gardens, trellised and untrellised, and the date-palm and the corn-fields whose fruits vary in taste, and the olive and the pomegranate, similar and dissimilar. Eat of the fruit thereof when they bear fruit, and pay HIS due on the day of the harvest and exceed not the bounds. Surely, ALLAH loves not those who exceed the bounds.

        (8:58) And if thou fearest treachery from a people, throw back to them their covenant with equity. Surely, ALLAH loves not the treacherous.

        (9:4) Except those of the disbelievers with whom you have entered into a treaty and who have not subsequently failed you in anything nor aided anyone against you. So fulfill to these the treaty you have made with them till their term. Surely ALLAH loves those that are righteous.

        (9:7) How can there be a treaty for these idolaters with ALLAH and HIS Messenger, Except those with whom you entered into a treaty at the
        Sacred Mosque ? So, as long as they are true to them. Surely ALLAH loves those who fulfill their obligations.

        (9:108) Never stand to pray therein. A Mosque founded upon piety from the very first day is surely more worthy that thou shouldst stand to pray therein. In it are men who love to become purified, And ALLAH loves those who purify themselves.

        (16:23) Undoubtedly, ALLAH knows what they keep secret and what they disclose. Surely, HE loves not the proud.

        (22:38) Surely, ALLAH defends those who believe. Surely, ALLAH loves not anyone who is perfidious, ungrateful.

        (8:56) Surely, thou canst not guide whomsoever thou lovest; but ALLAH guides whomsoever HE pleases; and HE knows best those who would accept guidance.

        (28:76) Verily, Korah was of the people of Moses, but he behaved tyrannically towards them. And WE had given him treasures of hoarded wealth so much that the keys thereof would have weighed down a party of strong men. When his people said to him, `Exult not, surely ALLAH loves not those who exult;

        (28:77) `And seek, in that which ALLAH has given thee, the Home of the Hereafter; and neglect not thy lot in this world; and do good to others as ALLAH has done good to thee; And seek not to create mischief in the land. Verily, ALLAH loves not those who create mischief;'

        (30:45) That HE, out of HIS bounty, may reward those who believe and act righteously. Surely, HE loves not the disbelievers.

        (31:18) `And turn not thy cheek away from men in scorn, nor walk in the earth haughtily; Surely, ALLAH loves not the arrogant boaster;

        (42:40) Remember that the recompense of an injury is an injury the like thereof; but whoso forgives and thereby brings about an improvement, his reward is with ALLAH. Surely, HE loves not the wrongdoers.

        (49:9) And if two parties of believers fight each other, make peace between them; then if after that, one of them transgresses against the other, fight the party that transgress until it returns to the command of ALLAH. Then if it returns, make peace between them with equity, and act justly. Verily, ALLAH loves the just.

        (57:23) That you may not grieve over what is lost to you nor exult because of that which HE has bestowed upon you. And ALLAH loves not any conceited boaster,

        (60:8) ALLAH forbids you not respecting those who have not fought against you on account of your religion, and who have not driven you out from your homes, that you be kind to them and deal equitably with them; surely, ALLAH loves those who are equitable.

        (61:4) Verily, ALLAH loves those who fight in HIS cause arrayed in solid ranks, as though they were a strong structure cemented with molten lead.
        By Him in whose Hand is the Soul of Muhammad, there is not one from the nations of the Jews and the Christians who hears about me and then dies while he has not believed in what I have been sent with except that he will be one of the companions of the Fire”. (Reported by Muslim in kitaabul Imaan)
        www.treasureofthescholars.wordpress.com

        Comment


          Re: Does Islam require hate??

          Originally posted by learnhaqq View Post
          May I ask, how dangerous is satan really, if I can get an answer here I dont need to make a thread! Thanks
          Temptation is a very dangerous thing! wouldnt you say? and shaitan is the great tempter!

          Comment


            Re: Does Islam require hate??

            Brothers and sisters, you need to reply in a way that is not going to be taken out of context along with giving the right reply.

            Remember that A) people's minds are groomed to look at islam as hateful, so they will automatically not see what we mean and instead look at it the wrong way, and B) Muslims have many enemies right now, and they are looking for excuses to quote things to villify Islam. Do not be the door through which Islam is attacked, not just physically but also intellectually/politically/psychologically.

            Originally posted by Ana the Ist View Post
            On another forum an Islamic woman told me something that was one of the saddest things I've ever heard. She said that Islam required her to hate those that Allah hates. She mentioned that this was not an "emotional" hatred but rather a type of "religious" hatred (insisting that there is a difference). She gave a short list of who she must hate (disbelievers etc.) and she mentioned that the form of Islam she followed was stricter than most (I don't remember what it was).

            Is this true...or is she mistaken? Does Allah ask that you hate certain people?

            Any more information on this would be greatly appreciated....

            Thank-you.
            The answer is that it is neither.

            In Islam there is the concept of allegiance/loyalty, ie we love what Allah loves and hate what Allah hates. We do not 'hate' disbelievers, this is false and a lie. Rather, just like a modern state, those that are an enemy of the islamic state, are the enemy of the Muslims. Likewise, those who befriend the state are friends of the Muslims.

            We also love the actions that Allah loves, and detest the actions Allah detests. We do not hate people just for the sake of hating them. For example, when the US was engaged in the cold war with russia, the russians were hated by the people because it was a state of cold war.

            I want to make this clear so that no one on this forum takes the meaning of 'al wala wal bara' out of context and misquotes it all over the place to start more fear-mongering.
            If you have any questions feel free to PM me!

            Humililty, Sincerity, and the quest for Truth. There is no purpose in life but to seek the pleasure of Allah.
            There is a possibility a female might use this account to read something!

            Comment


              Re: Does Islam require hate??

              And Elsie needs to realise that if she were born 40 years earlier, she would direct her animosity towards communists rather
              than Muslims because she is a good little prole always ready to obey the newspeak. Maybe she would even muster up a derogatory joke about communists and their goats too. If she were born 150 years ago, she'd wonder why them black folks wont "stay in their place" and be grateful to their 'superior' white masters. If she's from a Christian background, she'd also need to realise that in those days the church was still debating and hadn't yet drawn a conclusion as to whether a woman has a soul or not.
              You know, I don't much like being talked down to. I'm not some 'little woman' trying to keep up with the big boys. Your petitOrwellian vocabulary is rather immature.

              I am well aware of the way people in the past thought. But this topic deals with whether Muslims continue to think as people in the past thought.

              Am I 'the worst of beings' because I'm not Muslim?

              If so, can I do anything to change that view? And don't tell me to convert.

              It seems as if Allah has deliberately created people who will be at perpetual war with each other.

              If so, we are guaranteed misery until the end of time.

              Comment


                Re: Does Islam require hate??

                Ana,

                Superstition is the wrong word to use when describing Islam as most people use 'superstition' with the connotation of blind faith or a belief in something unproven and Islam doesn't fit into either category. Yet again this goes back to my original point: the question here is not whether the Muslims insist on adhering to and believing what is in the Quran and Sunnah, but rather the question is on ascertaining whether it is the correct criterion in deciding between right or wrong as opposed to any other criterion. This is done by evaluating it's basis and the basis of Islam is not superstition but a whole other topic that would require a thread of its own if you want to go down that road.

                Once the basis is understood, then all further questions regarding what emanates from that basis become redundant. You've probably already realised my question about homosexuality was a rhetorical one, not to debate whether it is right or wrong, but to point out the fact that an average kafir being asked this question forty years ago would've given a very different answer to someone of today. Two different people, two different criterion, both considered correct to the people of their time- they can't both be right. The action is the same and yet the criterion to assess that action changed within one generation. Islam is consistent, it doesn't 'evolve' and change direction just cos' the winds of time sway people in this direction or that.

                Elsie,

                You turn up here depicting the Islamic view of right and wrong as an "argument over a stolen goat centuries ago" and now you accuse ME of being condescending? Excuse me for presuming you were an ignorant prole, maybe if you didn't express yourself like one I wouldn't have drawn such a conclusion.

                You are what you choose to be and you are responsible for the consequences of your choices- same goes for the rest of us. Who will be guaranteed misery till the end of time is Allah's (swt) decision- I leave that in His hands.
                The Lyme Disease pandemic: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z5u73ME4sVU

                Comment


                  Re: Does Islam require hate??

                  OP, I appreciate your interest/ keenness in 'what Islam requires', but don't you think you don't require this much energy, time, and efforts for discussing this topic to this extent ?!?

                  Why not discuss some of the other (like 'love & peace') aspects of Islam as well. Would like to see such a topic started by you, as well.
                  Read not to contradict and confute, not to believe and take for granted, not to find talk and discourse, but to weigh and consider. Inhale positive, exhale negative

                  Comment


                    Re: Does Islam require hate??

                    salam,salam,i didn,t go all through the posts.but the topic is really interesting.now is there any hadeed that mention we should hate non muslims?please quote if there is any.Allah sent prophets to earth to do da,wa to the non believers.and our last prophet muhamed( saw)did da,wa till his death and now it is our turn to continue his pathnow that he is no more. if we r to hate non believers how r we to do dawa to them.wat chance would they have to learn islam if we shun them away from us.abu sufian the worst enemy of islam accepted islam.khalid bin walid the great warrier did the same and almost all sahabas.wat was the reason behind this.prophet muhamed,s (saw) patience and ahlaque.he never abused non believers he never cursed the non believer.instead he always prayed for their hidayat .and b4 his death the whole meccans and madeenas accepted islam.our beloved prophet never hated any non believers.he hated only their actions of kufrism.ALlahu Ahlam

                    Comment


                      Re: Does Islam require hate??

                      A FATHER'S LEGACY: TREATMENT OF NON-MUSLIM PARENTS

                      When Prophet Ibrahim called his father to tawheed, his father rejected him, and on top of that threatened him with physical harm. Allaah informed us of his noble reaction in the following ayat:

                      "He (Ibrahim's father) said: 'Do you reject my gods, O Ibrahim? If you don't desist, I will indeed stone you. So get away from me safely before I punish you.'

                      Ibrahim said: 'Peace be on you! I will ask Forgiveness of my Lord for you. Verily! He is unto me, Ever Most Gracious. And I shall turn away from you and from those whom you invoke besides Allah. And I shall call on my Lord; and I hope that I shall not be unblest in my invocation to my Lord.'" (Surat Maryam: 46-48)

                      It is a sad fact that in this day and age, many of us who have non-believing parents, are failing miserably in dealing with them with such mercy and humility. We let our frustration at their disbelief cause us to speak and interact with them in the meanest and most disrespectful of ways.

                      The next time we become frustrated with their lifestyle, or fed up with them rejecting our da'wah, inshaa Allaah we can remind ourselves of the character of Prophet Ibrahim (as), his actions toward his father, and act differently. Perhaps our kindness and mercy toward them will be a reason for their acceptance of islam.

                      Recipes for all the family :inlove:
                      (and you thought I was a lazy feminazi which can't cook?)

                      Comment


                        Re: Does Islam require hate??

                        Originally posted by Sandman View Post
                        RE: the OP.

                        If you fall under any of the catagories stated after "Allah loves not..." then we Muslims also do not love you. That doesn't mean we will actively persecute those people who can be Muslim or kufr, it simply means that you do not benefit from being amongst those that Allah ta'ala and the people of Allah ta'ala love(without repentance).

                        (2:190) And fight in the way of ALLAH against those who fight against you, but do not transgress. Surely, ALLAH loves not the transgressors.

                        (2:195) And spend in the cause of ALLAH, and cast not yourselves into ruin with your own hands, and do good; surely ALLAH loves those who do good.

                        (2:205) And when he is in authority, he runs about in the land to create disorder in it and destroys the tilth and the progeny of man; and ALLAH loves not disorder.

                        (2:222) And they ask thee concerning menstruation. Say, `It is a harmful thing, so keep away from women during menstruation, and go not in unto them until they are clean. But when they have cleansed themselves, go in unto them as ALLAH has commanded you. ALLAH loves those who keep themselves clean.'

                        (2:276) ALLAH will blot out interest and will cause charity to increase. And ALLAH loves not anyone who is a confirmed disbeliever and an arch-sinner.

                        (3:32) Say, `Obey ALLAH and HIS Messenger;' but if they turn away, then remember that ALLAH loves not the disbelievers.

                        (3:57) `And as for those who believe and do good works, HE will give them
                        their full rewards. And ALLAH loves not the wrongdoers.'

                        (3:76) Nay, but whoso fulfills his pledge and fears ALLAH -verily, ALLAH loves those who fear Him.

                        (3:134) Those, who spends in prosperity and adversity, and those who suppress anger, and pardon men; and ALLAH loves those who do good;

                        (3:140) If you have received an injury, surely the disbelieving people have already received a similar injury. And such days WE cause to alternate among men that they may be admonished, and that ALLAH may cause to be distinguished those who believe and may take witnesses from among you; and ALLAH loves not the unjust.

                        (3:146) And many a Prophet there has been beside whom fought numerous companies of their followers. They slacken not for aught that befell them in the way of ALLAH nor did they weaken, nor did they humiliate themselves before the enemy. And ALLAH loves the steadfast.

                        (3:148) So ALLAH gave them the reward of this world, and also an excellent reward of the Hereafter; and ALLAH loves those who do good.

                        (3:159) And it is by the great mercy of ALLAH that thou art kind towards them, and if thou hadst been rough and hard-hearted, they would surely have dispersed from around thee. So pardon them and ask forgiveness for them, and consult them in matters of administration; and when thou art resolved, then put thy trust in ALLAH. Surely, ALLAH loves those who put their trust in HIM.

                        (4:36) And worship ALLAH and associate naught with HIM, and show kindness to parents, and to kindred, and orphans, and the needy, and to the neighbour who is a kinsman and the neighbour who is a stranger, and the companion by your side, and the wayfarer, and those whom your right hands possess. Surely, ALLAH loves not the arrogant and the boastful;

                        (4:107) And plead not on behalf of those who are dishonest to themselves. Surely, ALLAH loves not one who is perfidious and a great sinner.

                        (5:13) So, because of their breaking of the covenant, WE have cursed them and have hardened their hearts. They pervert the words from their proper places and have forgotten a good part of that with which they were exhorted. And thou wilt not cease to discover treachery on their part, except a few of them. So pardon them and show forbearance. Surely ALLAH loves those who do good to others.

                        (5:42) They are eager listeners to falsehood, devourers of things forbidden. If, then, they come to thee for judgment, judge between them or turn aside from them. And if thou turn aside from them, they cannot harm thee at all. And if thou judge, judge between them with justice. Surely ALLAH loves those who are just.

                        (5:87) O ye who believe ! make not unlawful the good things which ALLAH has made lawful for you, and do not transgress. Surely ALLAH loves not the transgressors.

                        (5:93) On those who believe and do good works there shall be no sin for what they eat, provided they fear ALLAH and believe and do good works, and again fear ALLAH and believe, yet again fear ALLAH and do good. And ALLAH loves those who do good.

                        (6:141) And HE it is Who produces gardens, trellised and untrellised, and the date-palm and the corn-fields whose fruits vary in taste, and the olive and the pomegranate, similar and dissimilar. Eat of the fruit thereof when they bear fruit, and pay HIS due on the day of the harvest and exceed not the bounds. Surely, ALLAH loves not those who exceed the bounds.

                        (8:58) And if thou fearest treachery from a people, throw back to them their covenant with equity. Surely, ALLAH loves not the treacherous.

                        (9:4) Except those of the disbelievers with whom you have entered into a treaty and who have not subsequently failed you in anything nor aided anyone against you. So fulfill to these the treaty you have made with them till their term. Surely ALLAH loves those that are righteous.

                        (9:7) How can there be a treaty for these idolaters with ALLAH and HIS Messenger, Except those with whom you entered into a treaty at the
                        Sacred Mosque ? So, as long as they are true to them. Surely ALLAH loves those who fulfill their obligations.

                        (9:108) Never stand to pray therein. A Mosque founded upon piety from the very first day is surely more worthy that thou shouldst stand to pray therein. In it are men who love to become purified, And ALLAH loves those who purify themselves.

                        (16:23) Undoubtedly, ALLAH knows what they keep secret and what they disclose. Surely, HE loves not the proud.

                        (22:38) Surely, ALLAH defends those who believe. Surely, ALLAH loves not anyone who is perfidious, ungrateful.

                        (8:56) Surely, thou canst not guide whomsoever thou lovest; but ALLAH guides whomsoever HE pleases; and HE knows best those who would accept guidance.

                        (28:76) Verily, Korah was of the people of Moses, but he behaved tyrannically towards them. And WE had given him treasures of hoarded wealth so much that the keys thereof would have weighed down a party of strong men. When his people said to him, `Exult not, surely ALLAH loves not those who exult;

                        (28:77) `And seek, in that which ALLAH has given thee, the Home of the Hereafter; and neglect not thy lot in this world; and do good to others as ALLAH has done good to thee; And seek not to create mischief in the land. Verily, ALLAH loves not those who create mischief;'

                        (30:45) That HE, out of HIS bounty, may reward those who believe and act righteously. Surely, HE loves not the disbelievers.

                        (31:18) `And turn not thy cheek away from men in scorn, nor walk in the earth haughtily; Surely, ALLAH loves not the arrogant boaster;

                        (42:40) Remember that the recompense of an injury is an injury the like thereof; but whoso forgives and thereby brings about an improvement, his reward is with ALLAH. Surely, HE loves not the wrongdoers.

                        (49:9) And if two parties of believers fight each other, make peace between them; then if after that, one of them transgresses against the other, fight the party that transgress until it returns to the command of ALLAH. Then if it returns, make peace between them with equity, and act justly. Verily, ALLAH loves the just.

                        (57:23) That you may not grieve over what is lost to you nor exult because of that which HE has bestowed upon you. And ALLAH loves not any conceited boaster,

                        (60:8) ALLAH forbids you not respecting those who have not fought against you on account of your religion, and who have not driven you out from your homes, that you be kind to them and deal equitably with them; surely, ALLAH loves those who are equitable.

                        (61:4) Verily, ALLAH loves those who fight in HIS cause arrayed in solid ranks, as though they were a strong structure cemented with molten lead.
                        Thank you, the answers I've been given vary rather greatly but this does add some clarity.

                        When I said the word "hate" I certainly do not mean persecution or violence. One can definitely hate without taking action on it.

                        Comment


                          Re: Does Islam require hate??

                          Originally posted by al-siddiq View Post
                          Brothers and sisters, you need to reply in a way that is not going to be taken out of context along with giving the right reply.

                          Remember that A) people's minds are groomed to look at islam as hateful, so they will automatically not see what we mean and instead look at it the wrong way, and B) Muslims have many enemies right now, and they are looking for excuses to quote things to villify Islam. Do not be the door through which Islam is attacked, not just physically but also intellectually/politically/psychologically.



                          The answer is that it is neither.

                          In Islam there is the concept of allegiance/loyalty, ie we love what Allah loves and hate what Allah hates. We do not 'hate' disbelievers, this is false and a lie. Rather, just like a modern state, those that are an enemy of the islamic state, are the enemy of the Muslims. Likewise, those who befriend the state are friends of the Muslims.

                          We also love the actions that Allah loves, and detest the actions Allah detests. We do not hate people just for the sake of hating them. For example, when the US was engaged in the cold war with russia, the russians were hated by the people because it was a state of cold war.

                          I want to make this clear so that no one on this forum takes the meaning of 'al wala wal bara' out of context and misquotes it all over the place to start more fear-mongering.
                          I certainly don't want to take any Islamic concepts out of context...but please understand as many of these concepts are foreign to me, they are difficult to understand. For example, you said this....

                          "We do not 'hate' disbelievers, this is false and a lie. Rather, just like a modern state, those that are an enemy of the islamic state, are the enemy of the Muslims."

                          Why would a disbeliever automatically be considered an "enemy of the Islamic state"? Certainly you realize that the overwhelming majority of disbelievers probably don't even consider the "Islamic state" let alone want to destroy it. That is why I think your example of Cold War Russia and the United States is a poor example. During that time period, Russia and the United States were taking actions to position themselves to potentially destroy one another. It was a lot more than simply having ideologies that are antithetical to one another.

                          Comment


                            Re: Does Islam require hate??

                            Originally posted by Elsie View Post
                            And Elsie needs to realise that if she were born 40 years earlier, she would direct her animosity towards communists rather

                            You know, I don't much like being talked down to. I'm not some 'little woman' trying to keep up with the big boys. Your petitOrwellian vocabulary is rather immature.

                            I am well aware of the way people in the past thought. But this topic deals with whether Muslims continue to think as people in the past thought.

                            Am I 'the worst of beings' because I'm not Muslim?

                            If so, can I do anything to change that view? And don't tell me to convert.

                            It seems as if Allah has deliberately created people who will be at perpetual war with each other.

                            If so, we are guaranteed misery until the end of time.

                            Perpetual war seems to imply neither side will eventually win....

                            Comment


                              Re: Does Islam require hate??

                              Originally posted by neelu View Post
                              Ana,

                              Superstition is the wrong word to use when describing Islam as most people use 'superstition' with the connotation of blind faith or a belief in something unproven and Islam doesn't fit into either category. Yet again this goes back to my original point: the question here is not whether the Muslims insist on adhering to and believing what is in the Quran and Sunnah, but rather the question is on ascertaining whether it is the correct criterion in deciding between right or wrong as opposed to any other criterion. This is done by evaluating it's basis and the basis of Islam is not superstition but a whole other topic that would require a thread of its own if you want to go down that road.

                              Once the basis is understood, then all further questions regarding what emanates from that basis become redundant. You've probably already realised my question about homosexuality was a rhetorical one, not to debate whether it is right or wrong, but to point out the fact that an average kafir being asked this question forty years ago would've given a very different answer to someone of today. Two different people, two different criterion, both considered correct to the people of their time- they can't both be right. The action is the same and yet the criterion to assess that action changed within one generation. Islam is consistent, it doesn't 'evolve' and change direction just cos' the winds of time sway people in this direction or that.

                              Elsie,

                              You turn up here depicting the Islamic view of right and wrong as an "argument over a stolen goat centuries ago" and now you accuse ME of being condescending? Excuse me for presuming you were an ignorant prole, maybe if you didn't express yourself like one I wouldn't have drawn such a conclusion.

                              You are what you choose to be and you are responsible for the consequences of your choices- same goes for the rest of us. Who will be guaranteed misery till the end of time is Allah's (swt) decision- I leave that in His hands.
                              "This is done by evaluating it's basis and the basis of Islam is not superstition but a whole other topic that would require a thread of its own if you want to go down that road."
                              I agree it would require a whole other topic. Please understand though, you believe my morals are based in vain personal desires because you're Muslim. I believe your morals are based in superstition because I am atheist. If you insist upon describing my morals as such for this thread, than I insist on doing the same.

                              "Islam is consistent, it doesn't 'evolve' and change direction just cos' the winds of time sway people in this direction or that."
                              I find it interesting you say this as if it were a strength in Islam.....I find it a weakness.

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                                Re: Does Islam require hate??

                                Originally posted by Submit To Peace View Post
                                OP, I appreciate your interest/ keenness in 'what Islam requires', but don't you think you don't require this much energy, time, and efforts for discussing this topic to this extent ?!?

                                Why not discuss some of the other (like 'love & peace') aspects of Islam as well. Would like to see such a topic started by you, as well.
                                It's a topic of interest to me because "hate" is all I've experienced of the actions of Muslims. I've never experienced any acts of "love & peace" as you say it. I'm not saying it doesn't exist, but since it doesn't affect my life.....and the hate does.....I'm far more concerned about the hate. Hopefully you understand now.

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