Is it better to live in the UK?

[Bleuvert]

Asslamu alaikum, brothers and sisters.
I would like to ask for your point of view.
In a nutshell, I am a divorced revert Muslim with 2-year old daughter living in Russia with my parents. The relationships with my parents are quiet tense because of my religion, it has been 5 years, but it didn't get any better, especially after the divorce.
It's a very crucial time for me, because I need to decide how I am going to live further. Due to this tension I was thinking of going to another city of Russia to live separately from my parents. However, I realized I wouldn't cope with it being a single mother. Sometimes I feel fear when I see the situation in Russia regarding Muslims, I mean discrimination, persecution, and other people's attitude. I am shocked to see what is happening in schools and when I look at teenagers I'm trying not to think that my child might become one of them (or become friends with them). Therefore I was considering the possibility of moving to the UK. I've been there once and I had the impression that its easier for Muslims to live there...They are not despised that much, they look more relaxed...
So the question is, is it really true, or am I seeing it through rose-tinted spectacles? I know that visiting a country and living there are different things. But I can tell what I have faced in Russia so far: I was not hired for a job because I was wearing hijab, I heard foul words from people of all ages when passing by; when I stood up in the subway to give my place to an old woman, she hit me and swore; my parents and relatives told me I betrayed them and so on and so forth. I don't want my child to grow up in such conditions: children are cruel, and I don't want others to mock at her or her mother. Would it be any better if we lived in the UK? For example, will I be able to work regardless of my look (I know 4 languages, but as I wear hijab, nobody cares about my skills), will be my child to wear hijab in school, will we be able to walk everywhere without being frowned at? Or am I mistaken and it's going to be like in Russia?

Thank you for reading this. I really need to make a decision as soon as possible, because the tension in my family is only growing

[*asiya*]

Re: Is it better to live in the UK?

:wswrwb: Allah knows best sister have u thought about moving to somewhere like egypt instead. it would be better than the uk. Yes there are many muslims here, but they are mostly divided into their ethnicity in london, so you have the gujarati masjid, bengali masjid, pakistani masjid, afghan masjid - u get the picture. So in those places they speak usually only their language and you find people will not mix with you, or talk to you, many muslims do not speak english at all.

My husband goes to the gugerati masjid,and the pashtun masjid, where they speak another language no english, no arabic. No one has ever spoken to my husband or replied his salam in the masjid or even looked at him when he says salam, in two years, except to ask him for money ( he is african/arab) there are two or three masjids in london that are more mixed nationalities of muslims and its not like this in those masjids, but on the whole i have found it impossible to make freinds with muslim women here. everyone has their own friends and life already there is no room for new people. there is nothing going on for muslims here. its not at all as i expected or was led to believe.

I have been in london for 3 years,i moved from another country, i live in a massive Muslim area, with Muslim neighbors on my street, but they don't mix outside of their culture, and their family. its very lonely life. Im sure the uk is easier than russia, but you will still find some prejudiced people, even prejudice from other muslims, and some muslims get insults and trouble sometimes and so on from non muslims. My advise to you would be try to go to a muslim country instead it will be better for you and your children insha Allah. Allah make it easy for you amin.

[MoMo.]

Re: Is it better to live in the UK?

:salams

It might not be the best place, especially for a lone woman, but have you ever though of going to Chechnya? It would be alot easier for you fit in there and maybe even find a husband, Insha'Allah.

[Bleuvert]

Re: Is it better to live in the UK?

*Asiya*, there were some options of marrying someone from Egypt (I say marrying, because in my sitution getting married is the only way of immigration). But I'm afrid I won't be able to live in any Arabic country because of my mindset and mentality. My ex husbnd was Turkish, I've been to Turkey many times and I realized it would be really difficult for me to live there permanently, because Eastern mentality is really different.
So you said there are separated groups based on ethnicity...Yes, that might be a problem. This is why it would be better for me to find a revert - but I've been looking for over a year and have come across very few reverts. If I marry someone from another culture I will still be a stranger in that surroundings...But I'm already a stranger in my own country, so I wonder if I can do anything not to feel a stranger...
MoMo. Chechnya is not the best option. It's a dangerous area, therefore more persecution, especially after recent explosion there. Besides, all the marriages of Caucasian men and reverts which I know were very unhappy. There are too much cultural prejudices and stereotypes, as well as ignorance of main principles of relations between a husband and wife. I'm quite open to marry someone from nother ethnicity, but I avoid Caucasians.

[noobz]

Re: Is it better to live in the UK?

:salams

It might not be the best place, especially for a lone woman, but have you ever though of going to Chechnya? It would be alot easier for you fit in there and maybe even find a husband, Insha'Allah.

isnt there a war going on there?

[Bleuvert]

Re: Is it better to live in the UK?

isnt there a war going on there?

The whole Caucases is an area of war (permanently or from time to time), not only Chechnya

[*asiya*]

Re: Is it better to live in the UK?

*Asiya*, there were some options of marrying someone from Egypt (I say marrying, because in my sitution getting married is the only way of immigration). But I'm afrid I won't be able to live in any Arabic country because of my mindset and mentality. My ex husbnd was Turkish, I've been to Turkey many times and I realized it would be really difficult for me to live there permanently, because Eastern mentality is really different.
So you said there are separated groups based on ethnicity...Yes, that might be a problem. This is why it would be better for me to find a revert - but I've been looking for over a year and have come across very few reverts. If I marry someone from another culture I will still be a stranger in that surroundings...But I'm already a stranger in my own country, so I wonder if I can do anything not to feel a stranger...
MoMo. Chechnya is not the best option. It's a dangerous area, therefore more persecution, especially after recent explosion there. Besides, all the marriages of Caucasian men and reverts which I know were very unhappy. There are too much cultural prejudices and stereotypes, as well as ignorance of main principles of relations between a husband and wife. I'm quite open to marry someone from nother ethnicity, but I avoid Caucasians.

sister, men who practice their deen, no matter where they are from in the world will be good and kind husbands because they fear Allah ta ala. We cannot generalise a whole race, based on a few experiences we had or by a handful of people. how do you plan to find a husband in the UK if you need to marry in order to enter the country.

In islam You need to have a wali to help you who will help you to choose a man of good deen and character and who will investigate him, who will ask about him at his masjid, from his freinds, who will visit his family and make sure he is a good man.

I always advise sister never marry from speaking to men online, or talking only to that man, because that is asking for big trouble to marry a man you know nothing about based only on what he has said about himself, and its not allowed in islam to sit chatting to men on the internet or phone alone, if they do this, then run because they do not know their deen, or if they know it, they do not fear Allah in practising it.

there are some good russian forums on the net where u can speak to practising muslims in your country, and Allah knows best you may find that a sister knows a good man in your country, who will marry you and help you and your children to all make hijrah together as a family. Allah make it easy for you amin.

[Sam_87]

Re: Is it better to live in the UK?

:wswrwb:

First of all sis the most important thing for you to do would making dua to Allah for a place that will be good for you, your daughter and religion, wherever that may be.

Regarding the UK, specifically London, i find no problems practising my religion openly or feeling discriminated when applying for a job.

Whilst what sis Asiya has experienced is sad and totally unislamic, its not always the case. I see a lot of new muslims embraced and taken care of by their muslim brothers and sisters, I myself have a good friend who has only been muslim for 9 months and has more friends than me ma sha Allah. Sisters have arranged halaqas and hifdh classes at her house.

My point is that people will experience different things but ultimately we should ask that Allah guides us to what is good for us and make that easy for us to obtain.

[Ibadah]

Re: Is it better to live in the UK?

:wswrwb: Allah knows best sister have u thought about moving to somewhere like egypt instead. it would be better than the uk. Yes there are many muslims here, but they are mostly divided into their ethnicity in london, so you have the gujarati masjid, bengali masjid, pakistani masjid, afghan masjid - u get the picture. So in those places they speak usually only their language and you find people will not mix with you, or talk to you, many muslims do not speak english at all.

My husband goes to the gugerati masjid,and the pashtun masjid, where they speak another language no english, no arabic. No one has ever spoken to my husband or replied his salam in the masjid or even looked at him when he says salam, in two years, except to ask him for money ( he is african/arab) there are two or three masjids in london that are more mixed nationalities of muslims and its not like this in those masjids, but on the whole i have found it impossible to make freinds with muslim women here. everyone has their own friends and life already there is no room for new people. there is nothing going on for muslims here. its not at all as i expected or was led to believe.

I have been in london for 3 years,i moved from another country, i live in a massive Muslim area, with Muslim neighbors on my street, but they don't mix outside of their culture, and their family. its very lonely life. Im sure the uk is easier than russia, but you will still find some prejudiced people, even prejudice from other muslims, and some muslims get insults and trouble sometimes and so on from non muslims. My advise to you would be try to go to a muslim country instead it will be better for you and your children insha Allah. Allah make it easy for you amin.

As-Salaamu Alaikum,

Sis, that is from you're own experience, it doesnt make it the same for everyone else. Our masjid is gujarati, however we have blacks, some white, bengali, pakistanis, indians, we have our talks in urdu and in english, however i do agree more talks should be in english, but i cant fault the masjid as they are doing a great job, this is btw in east london. They have acquired a new building recently to cater for women mashaAllah, which already women are allowed to attend for a lecture this coming sunday. A black brother comes to that same masjid, always gives salaams to my dad (as my dad helps him with his living arrangements alhamdulilah), a somalian brother needed help raising funds for his communities masjid, our masjid helped them alhamdulilah.

Then theres a masjid in forest gate, thats a bengali masjid but is run by gujaratis (sheikh murtaza khan is involved in that masjid), again there are a few somalians there and a few whites, i was doing an alim course and there was an elder white brother, we got on just fine alhamdulilah and so did the other brothers, i loved him for the sake of Allah (swt), especially in how his character was, there was no race issue with any of us alhamdulilah.

Another masjid is masjid tawheed in leyton, again its a mixed masjid, my cousin led taraweeh there so i happen to know what goes on.

So there you have it, we have wonderful masjids in east london where everyone gets on just fine alhamdulilah, you just need to find them.

[noobz]

Re: Is it better to live in the UK?

The whole Caucases is an area of war (permanently or from time to time), not only Chechnya

all the breakaway states like uzbekistan seem to be progressing ... or thats what i hear.

[*asiya*]

Re: Is it better to live in the UK?

As-Salaamu Alaikum,

Sis, that is from you're own experience, it doesnt make it the same for everyone else. Our masjid is gujarati, however we have blacks, some white, bengali, pakistanis, indians, we have our talks in urdu and in english, however i do agree more talks should be in english, but i cant fault the masjid as they are doing a great job, this is btw in east london. They have acquired a new building recently to cater for women mashaAllah, which already women are allowed to attend for a lecture this coming sunday. A black brother comes to that same masjid, always gives salaams to my dad (as my dad helps him with his living arrangements alhamdulilah), a somalian brother needed help raising funds for his communities masjid, our masjid helped them alhamdulilah.

Then theres a masjid in forest gate, thats a bengali masjid but is run by gujaratis (sheikh murtaza khan is involved in that masjid), again there are a few somalians there and a few whites, i was doing an alim course and there was an elder white brother, we got on just fine alhamdulilah and so did the other brothers, i loved him for the sake of Allah (swt), especially in how his character was, there was no race issue with any of us alhamdulilah.

Another masjid is masjid tawheed in leyton, again its a mixed masjid, my cousin led taraweeh there so i happen to know what goes on.

So there you have it, we have wonderful masjids in east london where everyone gets on just fine alhamdulilah, you just need to find them.

:wswrwb: okayyy... obviously i can only speak about my own experience.

so u have a few talks in english but mostly urdu, ur dad said salam to one black brother, theyre finally getting it together for the women, and u know of another asian masjid with a few somalis and a few white ppl.

it doesnt sound that much better.

do u have freinds outside your ethnicity from the masjid who u hang out with ?

[*asiya*]

Re: Is it better to live in the UK?

Whilst what sis Asiya has experienced is sad and totally unislamic, its not always the case. I see a lot of new muslims embraced and taken care of by their muslim brothers and sisters, I myself have a good friend who has only been muslim for 9 months and has more friends than me ma sha Allah. Sisters have arranged halaqas and hifdh classes at her house.

do u think that would happen if she wasnt a new muslim ?
?
are there other areas of london where they are mixed race masjids which have classes in english ? i only know of regents park, lewisham, and al muntada masjid, sadly two of those areas are too expensive to live in, and one is full of druggies and burglary.

[Bleuvert]

Re: Is it better to live in the UK?

sister, men who practice their deen, no matter where they are from in the world will be good and kind husbands because they fear Allah ta ala. We cannot generalise a whole race, based on a few experiences we had or by a handful of people. how do you plan to find a husband in the UK if you need to marry in order to enter the country.

In islam You need to have a wali to help you who will help you to choose a man of good deen and character and who will investigate him, who will ask about him at his masjid, from his freinds, who will visit his family and make sure he is a good man.

I always advise sister never marry from speaking to men online, or talking only to that man, because that is asking for big trouble to marry a man you know nothing about based only on what he has said about himself, and its not allowed in islam to sit chatting to men on the internet or phone alone, if they do this, then run because they do not know their deen, or if they know it, they do not fear Allah in practising it.

there are some good russian forums on the net where u can speak to practising muslims in your country, and Allah knows best you may find that a sister knows a good man in your country, who will marry you and help you and your children to all make hijrah together as a family. Allah make it easy for you amin.

Asiya, I have a representative in the UK. It is the only country where I have a representative (I don't even have a wali in Russia), so this is why I am not totally hopeless about investigating the potential candidate.
As for Russians forums, I've already tried this option. The problem is that there are very few male reverts (yes...very few people can be decisive enough to stop drinking). And nobody knows where they are, although everyone believes they exist:)

As for the case in the masjid you mentioned, I'm afraid we have the same thing here. Russian Muslims are not welcomed by Tatars, for example. Tatar women sometimes tell to Russian Muslims that they are not real muslims because they don't know Tatar language. Just ridiculous. Also there are Azeri masjids, Turkish masjids etc...But I don't go there, this is why I lack knowledge about what is going on there now. Drugs nd burglaries are very common here too, I dont think the situation is Russia is an better.
I am pretty much depressed by the attitude of people that I meet when I go out, some of them look as if they would like to strangle me. When I was in the UK I was much more relaxed.

[Ibadah]

Re: Is it better to live in the UK?

:wswrwb: okayyy... obviously i can only speak about my own experience.

so u have a few talks in english but mostly urdu, ur dad said salam to one black brother, theyre finally getting it together for the women, and u know of another asian masjid with a few somalis and a few white ppl.

it doesnt sound that much better.

do u have freinds outside your ethnicity from the masjid who u hang out with ?

No, we dont just have a few talks in english. We have alot however urdu is mainly used as about 90% are asians. My dad doesnt only give salaam, he actually helps him with living arrangements. However he does give salaams to any muslims alhamdulilah. I just mentioned that one brother as its more personal thn just salaams.

You have to get out of the mentality that most asians are racist. Finally getting it together lol, sister fear Allah swt. You dont know what my masjid does so dont judge. Not once did you say mashaAllah. Few white meaning there arent many white muslims the point was which you missed is. They accept any muslims alhamdulilah

And yes. I have a black friend whos a non muslim. I have indonesian bro, pakistani, bengali, somalian.

[*asiya*]

Re: Is it better to live in the UK?

No, we dont just have a few talks in english. We have alot however urdu is mainly used as about 90% are asians. My dad doesnt only give salaam, he actually helps him with living arrangements. However he does give salaams to any muslims alhamdulilah. I just mentioned that one brother as its more personal thn just salaams.

You have to get out of the mentality that most asians are racist. Finally getting it together lol, sister fear Allah swt. You dont know what my masjid does so dont judge. Not once did you say mashaAllah. Few white meaning there arent many white muslims the point was which you missed is. They accept any muslims alhamdulilah

And yes. I have a black friend whos a non muslim. I have indonesian bro, pakistani, bengali, somalian.

i didnt say they were racist.. thats your idea.

i said in my personal experience, muslims in the uk tend on the whole, to stick to their own ethnic groups in marriage, in worship as they have separate masjids in their own languages, as u have just confirmed. Which i always find strange cos you would have thought that all the pashtuns,afghans bengalis, pakistanis, gugeratis etc would at least be together in one masjid, instead of there being even more fractions in it. but anyway they arent. theres one masjid for each group.

i`ve been to the east london masjid once. i was very excited about going, had only been twice to a masjid in 14 years as a muslim ( i was stuck on an island with no masjid for ten years)so was really happy to be going, it was a really big deal for me, to be able to pray behind an imam, shoulder to shoulder with my sisters, and when i got there the sisters section had laminated signs on the doors saying, sisters its better you stay at home and pray. i could have cried.


so there u go, thats how it feels to be a woman even in a big masjid like the east london masjid. My experiences, my heartbreak. and masha Allah at the great work youre masjid are doing insha Allah it wont be like the ELM and insha Allah once it has sisters facilities,the sisters will be more than welcome to use them, and feel welcome when they get there, and it wont have signs telling us its better to stay at home.

you know whats really nuts and that no one seems to get. Is that a masjid will always only be a 90% attendance of asian speakers when the language spoken is always 90% asian language. until that changes, you give no reason for any muslim from another land to ever come to that masjid, because he will be like my poor husband, sitting every week listening for over an hour to someone speaking, and leaving again with no idea whatsoever of what was said.

until every single masjid in the land speaks the language of the land. then muslims will always be segregated by ethnicity in their learning and worship.