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  • #46
    Cw i think its more about to educate people ,both man and woman, about respect and what means to be married. Many people getting marry and have no clue what it means that - a couple life. From here its very easy to missinterpret everything.
    I not approve the beating because are other solutions much better. And once you slaped him or her ,he /she will never forget.

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    • #47
      Whoever says that the interpretaton of previous scholars and sahabah or even the prophet (saws)'s interpretation doesn't apply in our time is deeply misguided, and should repent. Islam is for all times and all places. If the society around you becomes far from Islam, then you don't change yourself just to fit in with filth, you aim to change society!!!

      The Prophet (saws), said: "The best of people is my generation, then those who come after them, then those who come after them (i.e. the first three generations of Muslims)." [Reported by Bukhari and Muslim - Mutawaatir].
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      • #48
        I don't see how hitting the wife is going to 'discipline' her, its more of a humiliation and is bound to affect the relationship between the spouses.

        Actually, what if the wife hits him back? would she be reprimanded for it, since he was just doing that which is within his right (so it would seem)?


        Ws
        You are not aware of the consequences that would result (if you were granted what you desire) because what you seek might be to your detriment. (O soul) be conscious that your Master is more aware about your well-being than you are.

        ~Ibn Al-Jawzee

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        • #49
          it just reminds me of those musketeer movies when an insulted or dishonoured person takes of his gloves and hits the offenders face with it (rather as a symbolic act than really hurting him)

          usually it ends in a duell. they are supposed to meet the next day at sunrise and the offender has the choice of the weapons.
          Last edited by abdulhakeem; 20-10-04, 11:08 AM.
          URGENT!!! your help is badly needed - fundraising for marriage

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          • #50
            Originally posted by AbuMubarak
            here we go again, more kufr being spouted

            next time PEACE encourages ANY CHANGING OF QURAN, peace will be banned
            I don't like threats - it makes me want to do exactly what you don't want me to do!

            So let me state very clearly that I believe issues such as Hitting ones wife, Slavery, stoning and Death sentence for someone who excersise his freedom to choose whatever religion he believes were not meant to be applied at all times in all places - and that they were specific to the conditions and circumstances of the time.

            I don't believe in changing Qur'an - but I do believe our scholars should do what Umar did, which is trying to understand the underlying wisdom of the Qur'an in dealing with events in ways that were appropriate at the time and using Ijtihad to keep to the true 'spirit' of the Qur'an.

            If you think I am doing wrong by saying this then ban me!
            Show LOVE with no remorse!

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            • #51
              to Bobcleosmith and others who share his view

              Salam Alaikum,

              Thank you Haju Mehmet for pointing out exactly what the quran says.
              I have to say to anyone who shares the opinion of BobCleoSmith... that Allah knows what you do and what you think. You should not really fear any of our opinions in this forum but fear Allah cause Allah knows. He is the Al-mighty the all-knowing.

              For others who share your view, I suggest you open your mind to what the quran is actually saying. However if you chose the path you are in right now - it will only guide you to mischief.

              You are personally giving all muslims a bad name by that statement, especially in the political situation we are in now. Now is the time for other religions to see that Islam is an ideology and the only way of life.
              So we actually do not need people such as yourself making false statements about islam. It is very haram to say the quran is saying something even when it's not.

              All I have to say to you is open your mind
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              • #52
                Originally posted by Chained_Water
                technically he didn't encourage changing the Quran.. but rather changing Shariah so that it makes unlawful something that has been made lawful.. and I'm sure he knows doing such a thing is explicitly forbidden

                but he has based it on the above example he gave about war booty, I do no know about that, so it would be nice if someone could shed more light on it
                I didn't realize that calling for Ijtihad was a bannable offense here at Ummah.com.

                Could one of the admins please point out where in the rules that is stated?
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                • #53
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                  Originally posted by Peace
                  If you think I am doing wrong by saying this then ban me!


                  I'm not quite sure if this threat of banishment is geared toward Muslims only but, I agree with your stance Peace.

                  I do also believe Islam is due for an update to it's structure and compliance with the laws set forth in earlier times. Islam would benefit greatly by doing away with antiquated rules of social conduct, meant for an age where tribalism and feudalism were rampant.

                  In saying these things, I am in no way seeking to diminish Islam but, attempting to build it up for the betterment of all mankind.

                  So, I wish to state plainly, here and now that if your voice is silenced,
                  my voice should also go silent,
                  either through banishment or through my own free will.

                  PEACE !

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                  • #54
                    Originally posted by Owl Mirror
                    ...I agree with your stance Peace.

                    So, I wish to state plainly, here and now that if your voice is silenced, my voice should also go silent, either through banishment or through my own free will.
                    Count me in.
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                    • #55
                      some people want 6 million dollars but don't want to work for it...and some people want Ijtihad without possessing its requirements...which is knowledge of Quran and Sunnah and many other things.

                      i accept the Ijtihad of Umar (RA) because i turst him..the Mujahid Companion who lived for Islam..but i won't for example accept the Ijtihad of Irshad Manji who is a lesbian writer who live for her mad quest of fame by slandering Islam
                      My toughest fight was with my first wife.

                      Muhammad Ali Clay

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                      • #56
                        i want the people who want the home delivery Ijtihad to answer this question....how can you tell what is Heretical and what is not? what is your standards?
                        My toughest fight was with my first wife.

                        Muhammad Ali Clay

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                        • #57
                          Originally posted by Al-Nasser
                          but i won't for example accept the Ijtihad of Irshad Manji
                          You must be the only person on this Earth that considers this woman's opinions as "Ijtihad".
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                          • #58
                            it is.....everyone has his own Ijtihad.....and some Ijtihads are corrupt because it is based on personal interests or ignorance......and Ifsad Manji Ijtihad fall under the "personal interests" category (fame and wealth)
                            My toughest fight was with my first wife.

                            Muhammad Ali Clay

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                            • #59
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                              Why do the heathen rage and the peoples plot in vain?
                              "In all that you do, become not one-sided and overspecialized.
                              The Pharisees who seek our destruction verily think they are doing God's service.
                              They have become so narrowed by tradition that they are blinded by prejudice and hardened by fear.
                              Consider the Greeks, who have a science without religion, while the Jews have a religion without science.
                              And when men become thus misled into accepting a narrow and confused disintegration of truth, their only hope of salvation is to become truth-co-ordinated -- converted.
                              "Let me emphatically state this eternal truth: If you, by truth co-ordination, learn to exemplify in your lives this beautiful wholeness of righteousness, your fellow men will then seek after you that they may gain what you have so acquired.
                              The measure wherewith truth seekers are drawn to you represents the measure of your truth endowment, your righteousness.
                              The extent to which you have to go with your message to the people is, in a way, the measure of your failure to live the whole or righteous life, the truth-co-ordinated life."

                              While the religions of the world have a double origin -- natural and revelatory -- at any one time and among any one people there are to be found three distinct forms of religious devotion.
                              And these three manifestations of the religious urge are:


                              1. Primitive religion. The seminatural and instinctive urge to fear mysterious energies and worship superior forces, chiefly a religion of the physical nature, the religion of fear.

                              2. The religion of civilization. The advancing religious concepts and practices of the civilizing races -- the religion of the mind -- the intellectual theology of the authority of established religious tradition.

                              3. True religion -- the religion of revelation. The revelation of supernatural values, a partial insight into eternal realities, a glimpse of the goodness and beauty of the infinite character of the Father in heaven -- the religion of the spirit as demonstrated in human experience. The religion of the physical senses and the superstitious fears of natural man, the Master refused to belittle, though he deplored the fact that so much of this primitive form of worship should persist in the religious forms of the more intelligent races of mankind. Jesus made it clear that the great difference between the religion of the mind and the religion of the spirit is that, while the former is upheld by ecclesiastical authority, the latter is wholly based on human experience.
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                              • #60
                                Originally posted by Al-Nasser
                                it is.....everyone has his own Ijtihad.....and some Ijtihads are corrupt because it is based on personal interests or ignorance......and Ifsad Manji Ijtihad fall under the "personal interests" category (fame and wealth)
                                You yourself say it is her opinion, and then agree with me that opinion has no place in Ijtihad.

                                My source confirms this:

                                In Islam, both Jurisprudence (fiqh) and Ijtihad have no relation with any

                                personal opinion or qiyas.

                                Ijtihad is a complete scientific practice as defined before and has own

                                its sources, proofs, principles, methods and precisions like all other fields

                                of science and human knowledge such as logics, physics, mathematics...etc.

                                As the logician, physicist and mathematician, in their respective

                                fields, cannot coin laws or devise formulas from themselves at random,

                                so does the true jurisprudent (faqih) who is also not able to draft or

                                frame any law from himself because the nature of Shari'ah and its

                                lawful and ideological structure (constitution) not only does not

                                allow him to do that but also stands against those who forge or

                                play with its laws.


                                Thus, any law which lacks proofs and principles from the Book and

                                the sunnah and contradicts these scientific regulations is not an

                                Islamic law, but is simply the low desire of that law maker against

                                the spirit of the Shari'ah in order to deceive simple people.

                                http://www.balagh.com/english/articles/IJTIHAD.htm
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