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Islam's Wife-Beating

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  • Naida
    replied
    Originally posted by AhkmedHassoun
    Your missing the point. Cooking is indeed a job, but it is the motivation for the bad cooking that is subjective. You think she's just not good at cooking, but maybe I think she's just trying to piss me off. Either way, she's my wife, not yours. I am the arbiter of her behavior, not you. If I have come to the conclusion that this is rebellious behavior, I can beat her, as God has commanded.


    Indeed. The only obvious point is that fundamentalist Chrisitans have no theological justification for beating their wife. In fact, they do it in spite of their religion, not because of it. Big difference.
    Why dont you exercise your might and power and leadership in jihad fe sabilillah instead of resorting to this caveman crap!! Surely our Prophet taught us better!!

    And I wasn't aware that you were a scholar of tafseer so that you can interpret Allah's ayat as clearly and freely as you do.

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  • Naida
    replied
    Originally posted by Kaiser
    Tell that those wife beating morons in parts of the world who think that pouring acid and beating and mutilating is ok.

    And the biggest problem there is lack of education, stupid traditions and lunatic preachers who teach vile lies.
    :(

    If only Muslim men followed the example of the prophet and the Muslim women followed the examples of the mothers of believers.

    If only.

    May Allah guide us all.

    Leave a comment:


  • Guest's Avatar
    Guest replied
    You need to prove first, but prove, she is making that to piss you off.And don't forget you need first to take other measures.

    In catholics there is a punishment for ill conduct? or for breaking the 10 commandments?

    Leave a comment:


  • faqir
    replied
    Maybe I've not read most of this thread [I haven't] but what do you mean you're going to beat her [as God commanded] for not cooking your food?!?!

    Personally, if anyone beat my mother, my sister, or my wife for that matter they would be beaten to a pulp by me, InshaAllah.
    Last edited by faqir; 21-10-04, 04:51 PM.

    Leave a comment:


  • AhkmedHassoun
    replied
    Originally posted by amal
    "disloyalty and ill-conduct"

    If overcooked chicken its ill - conduct the first measure would be to announce me, admonish me that i am deeply wrong in the cooking area and show me, like husband, how would suppose to cook this chicken, right??? This its a job like any other job: the cooking. You not need to be angry for that.
    Your missing the point. Cooking is indeed a job, but it is the motivation for the bad cooking that is subjective. You think she's just not good at cooking, but maybe I think she's just trying to piss me off. Either way, she's my wife, not yours. I am the arbiter of her behavior, not you. If I have come to the conclusion that this is rebellious behavior, I can beat her, as God has commanded.

    Wife beaters are everywhere in this world: catholics, protestants,...]
    Indeed. The only obvious point is that fundamentalist Chrisitans have no theological justification for beating their wife. In fact, they do it in spite of their religion, not because of it. Big difference.

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  • yorkshireman
    replied
    Hassan got banned? :eek2:

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  • Guest's Avatar
    Guest replied
    Originally posted by Kaiser
    And the biggest problem there is lack of education, stupid traditions and lunatic preachers who teach vile lies.
    I am agree with you, the lack of education. This its the point. Wife beaters are everywhere in this world: catholics, protestants,... To eradicate the beating the people need first to be educated.

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  • Guest's Avatar
    Guest replied
    "disloyalty and ill-conduct"

    If overcooked chicken its ill - conduct the first measure would be to announce me, admonish me that i am deeply wrong in the cooking area and show me, like husband, how would suppose to cook this chicken, right??? This its a job like any other job: the cooking. You not need to be angry for that.

    Leave a comment:


  • Kaiser
    replied
    Tell that those wife beating morons in parts of the world who think that pouring acid and beating and mutilating is ok.

    And the biggest problem there is lack of education, stupid traditions and lunatic preachers who teach vile lies.

    Leave a comment:


  • AhkmedHassoun
    replied
    Nonsense. It says nothing about 'seriousness' or any other such interpretation. IT IS VERY CLEAR AND SIMPLE. Can't you read?

    It says 'disloyalty, ill conduct or rebellion'. There are varying levels of each of those. It is simply left up to the husband to decide. So 'overcooked chicken' is valid reason if I think she overcooked it to anger me.

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  • Guest's Avatar
    Guest replied
    Originally posted by AhkmedHassoun
    Your're interpreting.
    The Quran supercedes Sunnah and Hadith. It is the word of god and those words could not be any clearer. What matter's to you may not matter to someone else. If I think my wife has 'overcooked the chicken' and I feel that this is rebellious, according to God's word I can beat her. .
    Indeed its very clear the punishement need to apply only in very serious situations, like a last resort, and only after you had applied for other measure. So for the overcooked chicken you can't.

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  • AhkmedHassoun
    replied
    No I cannot read arabic, but lets say I could. Unless Arabic is my first language, I would still convert the Arabic to English in my head. So this point is irrelevant. I have read multilple interpretations of this verse, and they all say the same thing.
    004.034
    YUSUFALI: Men are the protectors and maintainers of women, because Allah has given the one more (strength) than the other, and because they support them from their means. Therefore the righteous women are devoutly obedient, and guard in (the husband's) absence what Allah would have them guard. As to those women on whose part ye fear disloyalty and ill-conduct, admonish them (first), (Next), refuse to share their beds, (And last) beat them (lightly); but if they return to obedience, seek not against them Means (of annoyance): For Allah is Most High, great (above you all).
    PICKTHAL: Men are in charge of women, because Allah hath made the one of them to excel the other, and because they spend of their property (for the support of women). So good women are the obedient, guarding in secret that which Allah hath guarded. As for those from whom ye fear rebellion, admonish them and banish them to beds apart, and scourge them. Then if they obey you, seek not a way against them. Lo! Allah is ever High, Exalted, Great.
    SHAKIR: Men are the maintainers of women because Allah has made some of them to excel others and because they spend out of their property; the good women are therefore obedient, guarding the unseen as Allah has guarded; and (as to) those on whose part you fear desertion, admonish them, and leave them alone in the sleeping-places and beat them; then if they obey you, do not seek a way against them; surely Allah is High, Great.

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  • Semantic
    replied
    Out of curiousity AhmedHassoun, can you read arabic?

    Leave a comment:


  • AhkmedHassoun
    replied
    I am talking about issues that matter, she is consistently stealing from the household, she is not covering, she is doing something that is truly taking her from the folds of Islam, and this form of rebellion can damage not only her but the family as a whole. And I am not saying that this is what was meant when the ayat was sent down. But I think if we as Muslims use hikmah in our affairs we will find that there is appropriate ways of dealing with things, and these measures shouldnt have to come this far. But sadly we as women can tick and do some stuff that is just very emotionally off base, we can take things too far, and men can often not have the patience or tolerance we may have expected them to have. Either way BEATING YOUR WIFE DOWN is a very big difference then what I understand the ayat to mean...
    Your're interpreting.
    The Koranic verse that was quoted is quite clear.

    The Quran supercedes Sunnah and Hadith. It is the word of god and those words could not be any clearer. What matter's to you may not matter to someone else. If I think my wife has 'overcooked the chicken' and I feel that this is rebellious, according to God's word I can beat her. I see nothing in that verse that tells me to interpret or put it in it's 'proper' context.

    But as a non muslim or even a new muslim it can be very difficult to see beyond just the words in your english KORAN or Qur'an. This was one of the first issues I had to tackle in coming to Islam, I needed to understand this and al hamdulillah I have come to terms with it. We as people have to read between the lines from time to time everything is not as black and white as we want to make it. There is much hikmah in this but it is how you choose to perceive it...
    Isn't what you and other fundies are always chiding Christians about? The ambiguity of the Bible and Christianity? 'Reading between the lines'? In other words, read what isn't there. Tell me what is between the lines that I cannot see with my own eyes about 4:34. This is an all or nothing proposition. You either take the Koran at face value or you leave the door open for interpretation and that can mean anything can be bent to suit an individuals will.

    Leave a comment:


  • Semantic
    replied
    Um. Certain rulings require certain conditions.

    Slavery is abrogated.

    Why?

    No Khalifah.

    Wife beating is not permitted.

    Why?

    It goes against the sunnah of not harming another, as well as the law of the land.

    As muslims do we have to adhere to the law of the land?

    Yes, when it does not contradict a required aspect of our religion.

    So that doesn't apply either.

    What's the fuss?

    Leave a comment:

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