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Islam's Wife-Beating

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  • Owl Mirror
    replied
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    Originally posted by mariam
    Where do men, let alone Muslim men get the idea that the oppression of women is ok?


    Directly from the lips of Allah, via Muhammad !
    Men are the protectors and maintainers of women, because All‚h has made one of them to excel the other, and because they spend (to support them) from their means. Therefore the righteous women are devoutly obedient (to All‚h and to their husbands), and guard in the husband's absence what All‚h orders them to guard (e.g. their chastity, their husband's property, etc.). As to those women on whose part you see illconduct, admonish them (first), (next), refuse to share their beds,
    (and last) beat them (lightly, if it is useful), but if they return to obedience, seek not against them means (of annoyance).
    Surely, All‚h is Ever Most High, Most Great.
    The guy is obviously a good Muslim who was only adhering to Allah's message and law.

    Leave a comment:


  • Mr_Jailer
    replied
    Originally posted by AbuMubarak
    and if she can, to get some brothers to kick his butt
    I'll do it... the second I've opened my fast :@

    Leave a comment:


  • Peace
    replied
    Originally posted by Huja Mehmet
    First of all, When husband and wife has aguement the man makes duah to Allah that she changes
    What if she's right?

    Originally posted by Huja Mehmet
    And if that doent happend when they are in bed he should turn his back (I translated this as not having sex)
    OK

    Originally posted by Huja Mehmet
    After all this has happened, the final thing is for the husband to take miswak and tap her
    I have often tried to visualise this in reality. I mean after you have tried talking it through, prayed, even tried a form of seperation and nothing works, then you ask your wife to stand still for a moment while you tap her lightly on the arm????

    I can just see her response:

    "Ah! OK! Now I see the error of my ways. All the talking and praying and seperation, didn't work, but now that I feel that tap on my shoulder it has all become clear"

    Be honest! Do you seriously think such a thing is reasonable!???????????


    I often hear people say it just means a tap with a Miswak - and they bring their evidence - fine! OK! But that in itself is a re-interpretation! LOL!

    The Qur'an says "WaDriboohunna" - Hit them - it says nothing about a Miswak - and many traditional scholars do not specify it has to be with a Miswak - some clearly agree that it could be hitting in the sense of a slap or a smack!

    In 7th century Arabia where women were treated as chattles and were used to such treatment - and fear and punishment yeilded results - it is clear that the Qur'an actually came to REDUCE and DIMINISH such behaviour by setting a clear PROCEEDURE that had to be followed FIRST before resorting to such punishments.

    The Qur'an did not invent such a punishment - it merely sought to control and set limits to it (and eventually get rid of it imho)

    Today such a smack, Slap (or Tap with a Miswak) would bring nothing but contempt and humilation to the wife.

    In practical terms alone it simply would not work.

    We live in a different age.

    And Ramadan is the best time to really REFLECT on God's book - not just recite it - but THINK!

    Time to wake up!
    Last edited by Peace; 19-10-04, 03:40 PM.

    Leave a comment:


  • Peace
    replied
    Originally posted by BobCleotisSmith
    If your going to purge the Islamic world of this type of behavior then you need to amend the Koran in the literal sense or interpret it. I'm simply playing devil's advocate because your odds are slim that your going to convinvce a fundie or otherwise that what he can read with his own eyes is misguided. He has the advantage here, not you. He has 1400 years of theological law to back him up. What do you have?
    Many Muslims are feeling this dilemma between traditional interpretations and the reality of a world that has changed radically from the sort of behaviour and circumstances that existed then.

    There are many scholars who are re-interpreting issues such as this. I believe it is only a matter of time when the reality of what people feel inside translates into effective action to re-interpret the original texts.

    Leave a comment:


  • Peace
    replied
    Originally posted by Al-Nasser
    by your logic Hassan i believe that targeting the enemy civillians who pay taxes which support the enemy military power is very fine as the verses which forbid us from killing the enemy civillians was for another time and age where all the fighting was done by swords.

    but...



    ...Do you then believe in a part of the Book and disbelieve in the other?..

    002:085

    افتؤمنون ببعض الكتاب وتكفرون ببعض

    Yes you make a good point. There must be some acceptable framework and basis for re-interpretation - it cannot be simply up to the whim of any Tom, Dick or Harry.

    I have suggested before that the consensus of the scholars could be that basis and the framework could be a close exammination of the Qur'an and Sunnah and use of "Ijtihad" - using the very tools God gave us - "Aql" (Reasoning/intelligence) and "Fitrah" (nature/conscience).

    If the scholars were to once again apply ijtihad and use sound reasoning and understanding of the conditions and situation then as compared to the conditions and situation now - I feel confident they could come to an agreement on what re-interpretations are necessary.

    But unfortuantely - at the moment - few scholars are willing to take such bold steps.

    But I am hopeful that this will happen eventually.

    Leave a comment:


  • sajid
    replied
    ok if u behave and not make sweeping statments like u did before then ur ok..

    ive said this before the way a people post will effect the way they are portrayed
    for example under ur other alias one of the first posts u said

    "lets discuss rape in shariah and all"

    u see new guy (u may not be) first few posts and u post things like that

    its this negativity u get from others..

    sure if u are here for answers not a problem but the way ya ask questions can have an impact on the way u are portrayed..fair enough there are those long enought to know whether u are genuine or not but id say for Majority of posters starting like that ur gonna be labelled "the anti muslim"

    bout what u said "speaking the Quran" yup u did quote but the way u made your comments about it seemed disrespectful.....

    see what i mean?

    Leave a comment:


  • sajid
    replied
    hmm how long u been at ummah for?

    me been here since 1999!

    seriously if u were before what was ur username?

    just curious

    Leave a comment:


  • Guest's Avatar
    Guest replied
    Originally posted by Peace
    Brutus does make a valid point!

    Since the Qur'an itself allows a husband to hit his wife under 'certain' circumstances. It is then not surprising that some misguided men abuse this license and beat them at the drop of a hat!

    I believe it is wrong to lay a finger on your wife under ANY circumstances.

    This part of the Qur'an - that allows a man to hit his wife - was for another time and another age, when people behaved and reacted differently. It is simply unacceptable in todays world!

    I don't believe for one minute that God wants us to hit anyone! Let alone our wife! But as with many situations in 7th Century Arabia - the society could not be transformed over night - and so strict rules and regulations were set in force - with the aim of eliminating such behaviour (an analogy is Slavery).

    We must make it explicit in Shari'ah that hitting ones wife under ANY circumstances is now FORBIDDEN!!!!!!!

    Otherwise such wife beaters will always abuse this sanction in the Qur'an!
    Instead of denying what Allah swt why dont you explain it? I was on a lecture and a non-muslim asked this question and qouted the Quran. Here is what the brother answerd.

    First of all, Wen husband and wife has aguement the man makes udah to Allah that she changes, Ad if that doent happend when they are in bed he should turn his back (I translated this as not having sex) and the final position is not talking to her.

    Afterall this happen the final thing for the husband to take miswak and tap her. AND NOT IT IS CLEARLY FORBIDDEN TO BEAT HER, ITS EVEN HARAM TO MAKE HER SKIN RED!.

    To take the miswak (teeth brush) and tap her with it in the arms.

    I ask Allah swt to guide you, It is ramadan and you are sitting here and potraying the noble sahaba radiallahu anhum as "wife beaters". WHen you say it you make it sound like Big arabs with big beards beating the hell of out of there wives.

    Rasolilah tought us, If you take the Quran the verse that says kill the unbelivers some misguided persons think going to your kafir neighbor and shooting him. And ofcourse this is Haram. Becouse is twisting the Allahs message.

    The Quran is the eternal book, It is Allahs words.
    Last edited by Huja Usman; 19-10-04, 03:06 PM.

    Leave a comment:


  • BobCleotisSmith
    replied
    ser has been here i think 6 times before and been banned..based on the current new nickname and past posts (under his other name) it seems he is hear to stir up trouble again..unless he can prove himself...
    I've been at Ummah as long as you have Sajid. You can get banned for many things here, but it speaks volumes if you get banned for quoting the Koran( apparently that is what stirring up trouble means :) ).

    This man may have thought his behavior was Islamically justified.
    If I read the Koran, and the Koran says I can beat my wife, how is this not justified through Islam? It's as clear as day. And we all know that the Koran is the word of God, there is no room for interpretation.

    Al Nasser makes a valid point as well, Hassan. If your going to purge the Islamic world of this type of behavior then you need to amend the Koran in the literal sense or interpret it. I'm simply playing devil's advocate because your odds are slim that your going to convinvce a fundie or otherwise that what he can read with his own eyes is misguided. He has the advantage here, not you. He has 1400 years of theological law to back him up. What do you have?

    But good luck.

    Leave a comment:


  • Al-Nasser
    replied
    Originally posted by Peace
    This part of the Qur'an - that allows a man to hit his wife - was for another time and another age, when people behaved and reacted differently. It is simply unacceptable in todays world!
    by your logic Hassan i believe that targeting the enemy civillians who pay taxes which support the enemy military power is very fine as the verses which forbid us from killing the enemy civillians was for another time and age where all the fighting was done by swords.

    but...

    ...Do you then believe in a part of the Book and disbelieve in the other?..
    002:085

    افتؤمنون ببعض الكتاب وتكفرون ببعض

    Leave a comment:


  • Peace
    replied
    Originally posted by Brutus_Beefcake
    [4:34] ...If you experience rebellion from the women, you shall first talk to them, then (you may use negative incentives like) deserting them in bed, then you may (as a last alternative) beat them...
    Brutus does make a valid point!

    Since the Qur'an itself allows a husband to hit his wife under 'certain' circumstances. It is then not surprising that some misguided men abuse this license and beat them at the drop of a hat!

    I believe it is wrong to lay a finger on your wife under ANY circumstances.

    This part of the Qur'an - that allows a man to hit his wife - was for another time and another age, when people behaved and reacted differently. It is simply unacceptable in todays world!

    I don't believe for one minute that God wants us to hit anyone! Let alone our wife! But as with many situations in 7th Century Arabia - the society could not be transformed over night - and so strict rules and regulations were set in force - with the aim of eliminating such behaviour (an analogy is Slavery).

    We must make it explicit in Shari'ah that hitting ones wife under ANY circumstances is now FORBIDDEN!!!!!!!

    Otherwise such wife beaters will always abuse this sanction in the Qur'an!

    Leave a comment:


  • sajid
    replied
    we dont usually ban just cos we dont agree with someone it dont work like that.....
    but at times u gotta look at the past and see whether a user has come in with other names before been banned his repuation and that sorts and first impressions on first few points if he seems geniunie then thats fine if its just to poke fun or cause arguments usually they get their accounts disabled.....most people are legit and genunine but u get the odd one or 2

    Leave a comment:


  • craig
    replied
    Originally posted by sajid
    user has been here i think 6 times before and been banned..based on the current new nickname and past posts (under his other name) it seems he is hear to stir up trouble again..unless he can prove himself...
    thanks guys

    Leave a comment:


  • sajid
    replied
    Originally posted by craig
    sorry, was just going through the forums and came across this thread, i would wish to give inputs on this, but only if asked, however i just a question i'd like to ask....why was Beefcake's account disabled?
    user has been here i think 6 times before and been banned..based on the current new nickname and past posts (under his other name) it seems he is hear to stir up trouble again..unless he can prove himself...

    Leave a comment:


  • Al-Nasser
    replied
    because he was already banned in a previous life

    Leave a comment:

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