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  • I don't know why Hassan was banned but if anyone should be banned its someone who goes around boasting how they'd beat their wife up if they didn't cook their food right and then tries to justify it as their God-given right.
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    • Originally posted by Naida
      :(

      If only Muslim men followed the example of the prophet
      Exactly, did Rasul Allah salallahu alayhi wasalam beat the mothers of the believers?
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      • It should be better never mention again about banning.

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        • Isn't what you and other fundies are always chiding Christians about? The ambiguity of the Bible and Christianity? 'Reading between the lines'? In other words, read what isn't there. Tell me what is between the lines that I cannot see with my own eyes about 4:34. This is an all or nothing proposition. You either take the Koran at face value or you leave the door open for interpretation and that can mean anything can be bent to suit an individuals will.<!-- / message -->
          :shock: OH MY GOODNESS!!! Did i just get called a FUNDIE???? You apparantly have never read any of my posts before now cause if you had you would know I am clearly not any of these things you mentioned subhanaa Allah... I stay away from topics of the bible, christianity and politics even... for the most part but im a fundie??? Too funny...

          The thing you are apparantly not getting is that if you beat your wife unjustly because you have chosen to use this ayat to your advantage you will be dealt with on the day of judgement for your actions, as well punishment can come in this life and the hereafter. So if you have not chosen to be wise in what you do, to not see that this is for serious nature not just because, and not take into account that no mark should be left on your wife, which means that so called beating we in the english world call it is not some punch her in the face, knock her to the floor sort of beating. You are interpretting that it is for any reason you choose, and speak as if there are no methods before hand that must be taken. Then you will so rightly be dealt with by Allah...

          And keep in mind I am no advocate to domestic abuse, if a man hits me I will grab the closest thing i can find lol... but I also can understand the ayat to some degree... I am not a scholar I dont have the legal backing to say it means this or that I am saying to me thats what i derive from the ayat. That for good reason of rebellion and after taking steps to rectify the behavior it continues then there is this method. But if a woman is living her islam correctly she should never go to such lengths and the husband should always use hikmah in his actions because if he has done something unjust Allah will punish him for it.

          As well you need to read more then just these english translations, you need to read the tafsir on it, as well the many ahadith on this subject to get a better understanding. And ya know if you dont like the method you are always more then welcome to continue to try to deal with your wifes behavior in other ways. It is not to say that you can not use your mind to come up with ways to deal with your wife. It is not made an obligation on anyone to do this, and those who abuse it well they will be handled...

          Faqir he is using the chicken statements in reference to what i said if you go back to my VERY long post you will see what was said.

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          • Bringing Clarity to the Confusion

            Wife Beating




            1. Does the Arabic word 'daraba' necessarily mean "violent or intense or repeated striking?"




            No.

            Jurists routinely use the expression "daraba al-ma' `ala wajhihi" - lit. strike water upon the face, for someone accomplishing the first rukn of wudu' (washing the face).



            Also in Arabic daraba al-ard "to strike the earth" - as in verse 4:94 {When you strike the earth in the cause of Allah} - means to travel, i.e. walking with a staff.





            2. Has the phrase 'wadribuhunna' in 4:34 normally been interpreted as a command or has it been interpreted as more of a recommendation?




            Not even a recommendation. Al-Razi said in his Tafsir on 4:34 (1308/1891 edition 3:222): "Al-Shaf`i said: 'wa al-darbu mubah, wa al-tarku afdal - and hitting is permitted, but not hitting is preferable.'"

            NB: Al-Shafi`i's position is therefore that it is "permissible", NOT "just barely permissible" as misrepresented by Muhammad Asad. [_The Message of the Qur'an_, translation and commentary of the Qur'an by Muhammad Asad (1980), footnote 45, p. 109 (one of the commentaries on verse 4:34).]

            The basic rule (asl) is strict prohibition, followed by dispensation (rukhsa) as explicited by the Prophet in the hadith below, which al-Shafi`i took for his evidence in his ruling:

            The Prophet said: "Do not hit the maidservants of Allah!" (la tadribu ima' Allah). Then `Umar (RA) came to the Prophet and said [NB: by way of exaggeration, cf. `Awn al-Ma`bud]: "The women are rebelling (dha'irna) against their husbands!" So the Prophet GAVE A DISPENSATION (rakhkhasa) to beat them. Whereupon women started pouring in to see the family of the Messenger of Allah and complain about their husbands. Seeing this, the Prophet said: "Many women have poured in to see the family of Muhammad, complaining of their husbands, and *the latter are certainly not the best of you*." Narrated from Iyas ibn `Abd Allah ibn Abi Dhubab by al-Shafi`i in his Musnad, Abu Dawud, al-Nasa'i, Ibn Majah, al-Tabarani in al-Kabir, and al-Hakim. Al-Nawawi and al-Suyuti graded it a sound (sahih) narration in Riyad al-Salihin [RS-281] and al-Jami` al-Saghir respectively.

            In a version cited by al-Razi in his Tafsir, (3:222) `Umar also states: "We the Quraysh used to have our men holding sway over our women. Then we came to Madina and found that their women held sway over their men. Then our women mixed with their women until they rebelled (dha'irna) against their husbands. So I came to the Prophet and told him: 'The women are rebelling against their husbands!' So he GAVE PERMISSION (adhina) to beat them. Whereupon, etc."

            Some people who were influenced by feminism until they forgot the Adab of Islam, tend to badmouth Sayyidina `Umar for what they term his mistreatment of women. While it is true that the Arabs in general and Sayyidina `Umar in particular had a very high sense of self-respect (ghira) as attested by no less than the Prophet (in the hadith where he mentions seeing `Umar's palace in Paradise), nevertheless we should observe Adab so as not to commit a sin whenever mentioning the Prophet , his Family, and His Companions, indeed all Muslims as Allah (SWT) made the honor of a Muslim as sacrosanct as his life and property.

            The Prophet also expressed astonishment at the cruelty of certain men when he said: "Could any of you beat his wife as he would beat a slave, and then lie with her in the evening?" (Bukhari and Muslim).

            The crafty little anti-Islam page on domini.org states:
            "The Qur'an states:

            "Righteous women are therefore obedient, And those you fear may be rebellious (nushuz) admonish; banish them to their couches, and beat them."

            "Some translators add the word lightly after 'beat them' in Q 4:34. Others like Mohammed Pickthall and Rodwell translate the word 'edrebouhon - beat them' as 'scourge them'. [...] But "a beating without causing injury" (agreed upon) "So the man has the right to beat his rebellious wife as long as that beating is not like the whipping of the slave and will not result in injury."


            Of course the above is false and tendentious but couched in the syrupy style typical of missionaries.

            The hadith in Muslim states that the Prophet in his Farewell Pilgrimage said: "Lo! My last recommendation to you is that you should TREAT WOMEN WELL. Truly they are your helpmates, and you have no right over them beyond that - EXCEPT IF THEY COMMIT A MANIFEST INDECENCY (fahisha mubina = adultery). If they do, then refuse to share their beds and beat them WITHOUT INDECENT VIOLENCE (fadribuhunna darban ghayra mubarrih*). Then, if they obey you, do not show them hostility any longer. Lo! you have a right over your women and they have a right over you. Your right over your women is that they not allow whom you hate to enter your bed nor your house. While their right over them is that you treat them excellently in their garb and provision."

            *** Then he took the covenant from them and from us that they and we all heard and understood this from him, respectively, directly and indirectly, with his forefinger raised, and said: "O Allah! bear witness." ***

            After this, whatever Muslim man derogates to the recommendation of the Prophet has violated his covenant with the Prophet and shall be called to account for it; and whoever of the non-Muslim men or women claims - even the Archbishop of Canterbury and his wife - that beating women is allowed in Islam, has belied the Divine witness invoked by the Prophet and shall be called to account for it in the Divine Court.

            *"Mubarrih" is defined in al-Mawrid as "violent, intense, severe, acute, sharp, excruciating, tormenting, agonizing." Qatada said as narrated by al-Tabari in his Tafsir (5:68): "Ghayr mubarrih means ghayr sha'in = not disgraceful/ outrageous/ obscene/ indecent [beating]." Muhammad Asad translates it over-figuratively as "not causing pain."



            3. What is the evidence for saying that this 'striking' is in fact only supposed to be carried out with something small, like a miswak?




            `Ata' said: "I asked Ibn `Abbas: 'What is the hitting that is ghayr al-mubarrih?' He replied: '[With] the siwak and the like'." Narrated by al-Tabari in his Tafsir (Dar al-Fikr reprint 5:68).



            Al-Razi (3:222) mentions that as a rule (a) it must be a light beating and (b) the face must be avoided. He added that certain of the Shafi`i jurists said "a coiled scarf (mindil malfuf) (NB: NOT "a folded handkerchief" as mistranslated by Asad) or his hand may be used but not a whip nor a stick."





            4. Where is the hadith found in which the Prophet said to a servant-girl who had been extremely late "If I were not afraid of Allah, I would hit you with this" referring to a miswak?




            Ibn Sa`d in al-Tabaqat al-Kubra, Al-Tabarani in al-Mu`jam al-Kabir, Abu Ya`la in his Musnad, Abu Nu`aym in Hilyat al-Awliya' and al-Hakim in al-Mustadrak narrated from Umm Salama: "The Prophet was in my house and there was a siwak in his hand. He called for Wasifa [the servant-girl] to come to him or to her [i.e. to serve Umm Salama] but she tarried until anger was visible on his face. So Umm Salama went out to her and found her playing with an animal. She said to her: "You are playing while the Messenger of Allah is calling you?" She replied: "No, by the one who sent you with truth! I did not hear you." Whereupon the Prophet said: "Were it not for fear of exaction (qawad) on the Day of Resurrection, I should surely make you sore (la'awja`tuki) with this toothpick."



            Al-Munawi in Fayd al-Qadir mentioned that al-Mundhiri and al-Haythami declared its chain of transmission good. Al-Suyuti graded the hadith "fair" (hasan) in al-Jami` al-Saghir. Al-Muttaqi cited it in Kanz al-`Ummal (#39820, 39821, 39829).



            5. What is the exact meaning of 'nushuz'? It is translated as disobedience, but there seem to be others who think it means something more like 'ill-will' or 'hostility' or 'ill-treatment'.




            It depends on context and how these terms are themselves understood by those who use them. Ill-treatment on the part of a wife to her husband, for example, is a bit different from ill-treatment on the part of a grocer to his customer.

            Nushuz is translated "Recalcitrance, disobedience, violation of marital duties on the part of the wife" in al-Mawrid Ar-Eng Dictionary.

            Nushuz in the verse, as shown, is an euphemism for adultery because her primary marital duty is spelled out in the hadith as "not allowing whom you hate to enter your bed nor your house." Al-Maziri also said that another interpretation of the words in that hadith said it referred to a woman sitting in seclusion with a stranger inside her husband's house. (Al-Nawawi, Sharh Sahih Muslim.)

            6. Is it not true that slapping someone on the face is not allowed in Islam? Is there a consensus on this point?




            It is a transgression requiring exaction (qawad) which can be changed into monetary compensation (diyya) in the Four Schools, and Allah knows best.

            Examples: (a) the famous hadith from Mu`awiya ibn al-Hakam in Sahih Muslim of the black woman slave whom her owner slaps and is then obligated to manumit as her compensation.

            (b) Also in Sahih Muslim, the example of Suwayd ibn Muqarrin who saw a man slap his female slave and told him: "Do you not know that the face is taboo? (al-sura muharrama) I, whom you see in front of you, the seventh of my brothers, was with the Messenger of Allah and we only had one servant; one of us slapped him, so the Messenger of Allah commanded us to free him."

            (c) A man from the Ansar insulted al-`Abbas's father who lived in the Time of Ignorance, whereupon al-`Abbas slapped him. The man returned to his people who said: "By Allah, we shall slap him just as he slapped him," and they girded their weapons. News of this reached the Prophet who ascended the pulpit and said: "O people! Who among the dwellers of the earth is deemed most honorable in the presence of Allah?" They said, "You." He continued: "And al-`Abbas is part of me, and I am part of him. Do not insult our dead, thereby harming our living." The people then came to the Prophet and said: "O Messenger of Allah! We seek refuge in Allah from your anger." Narrated from Ibn `Abbas by Ahmad and al-Nasa'i with a sound chain according to al-`Iraqi in Takhrij Ahadith al-Ihya', also al-Tabarani in al-Mu`jam al-Kabir.

            Al-Sindi in his commentary on al-Nasa'i's Sunan said: "Since he had begun with the insult, the slap received was not to obtain retaliation."

            Note that the directive of the above hadith was royally ignored by the Wahhabi preacher of the Prophet's Mosque in Madina, Abu Bakr al-Jaza'iri, who used to shout at the top of his lungs, right next to al-Mustafa ?: "The father and mother of the Prophet are in hellfire! The father and mother of the Prophet are in hellfire!" and so until his death last year. I wonder, should we believe that Abu Bakr al-Jaza'iri and his parents are in Paradise, while the parents of the Prophet Muhammad are in hellfire? Hasbuna Allah.

            The ruling of automatic manumission for striking a slave in the face is estalished by the following hadith of the Prophet :

            (d) "Whoever strikes his slave in the face or beats him unjustly, his expiation is to manumit him." Narrated from Ibn `Umar by Muslim in his Sahih.

            The ruling that the face is taboo is established by the following hadith of the Prophet :

            (e) "If you fight your brother, avoid striking the face, for Allah created Adam in his image." Narrated from Abu Hurayra by Muslim and al-Bukhari, the latter without the words "your brother." If this is forbidden while fighting or when interacting with a slave, then a fortiori it is forbidden outside fighting and with one's wife.

            Do not be misled by the Satanic whispers of domini.org which states:
            "The occasion in which Q 4:34 was revealed sheds more light on the meaning of that verse. Most commentators mention that the above verse was revealed in connection with a woman who complained to Mohammad that her husband slapped her on the face (which was still marked by the slap). At first the Prophet said to her: 'Get even with him', but then added : 'Wait until I think about it.' Later on the above verse was revealed, after which the Prophet said: 'We wanted one thing but Allah wanted another, and what Allah wanted is best.'[Razi, At-tafsir al-Kabir, on Q. 4:34.]"

            Crafty, crafty, and all for what? lies. Ars longa, vita brevis!

            The commentators also mention that this report is narrated only from al-Hasan al-Basri who is NOT a Companion. The most that can be said of it here is that it is a weak, isolated, mursal Tabi`i report that does not have probative force.

            What is more, al-Hasan himself flatly contradicts the above as he reportedly explained {wadribuhunna} to mean: "hitting that is not obscene; hitting that *does not leave a trace*" (darban ghayra mubarrih ghayra mu'aththir). Narrated by al-Tabari in his Tafsir (Dar al-Fikr reprint 5:68).

            And Allah Most High knows best.

            {Wa Makaru wa Makara Allah wAllahu Khayru-l-Makirin}

            {Yuridun an yutfi'u Nur Allah bi Afwahihim wa Ya'ba Allah

            Illa an Yatimma Nurahu wa law Kariha al-Kafirun}

            Blessings and peace of Allah on the Prophet, his Family, and his Companions.

            Hajj Gibril GF Haddad ©

            www.sunnipath.com
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            • bismillah ar rahman ir rahim,

              those who slander the mujahideen, those who call for the word of allah swt to be forgotten and changed just as the jews and christians have done, by all accounts when niseeha is given unto them and they reject-they should be banned from this forum. the only ones who will miss them are their kafir loving friends, they have not contributed to this forum except mainly slander against sincere muslims and a perverted sense of defending kufr over islam. and their knowledge is nothing but jahillyah. they will not be missed.

              bye bye to brother hassan and mariam. may allah swt guide you both.
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              • Listen to this questioner

                <BIG>I start beating my second wife after getting a phone call from my first wife. She is pregnant and starts crying, after sometime I get cool down. Is it due to black magic of first wife or Jin at home </BIG>
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                <SMALL>2004-06-07</SMALL>
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                <SMALL>It is a shame upon you that;

                1. As a man, you hit a woman;
                2. and that she is your wife;
                3. and that she is pregnant.

                You are to be blamed for all that, not black magic, or your first wife or a Jinn. You should endervour to reform yourself and until then behave. Offer your wife sincere apology and make up for the wrong you have done. You should also make istighfaar your entire life and regret the incident. Beg Allah not to hold to and hold you back in His court on the day of judgment for abusing your wife.

                Men who abuse their wives should never be unmindful of Allah’s wrath and punishment. Allah is All-Seeing and All-Hearing. Fear Allah.

                and Allah Ta'ala Knows Best

                Mufti Ebrahim Desai</SMALL>


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                • Originally posted by kaleem26
                  bye bye to brother hassan and mariam. may allah swt guide you both.
                  Its not the case to say bye ,bye none of them.

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                  • Invite to the way of your Lord with wisdom and beautiful preaching, and argue with them in ways that are best
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                    • shukran for posting these letters of daleel Faqir.

                      Oh i meant to say that if i am being beaten in such an abusive way I am gonna grab something lol... not if it is done according to quran... didnt want to sound like i was going against something... lolol

                      amal i didnt understand your last statement

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                      • my post was in reference to those modernist, sold out muslims, who look up to their kafir masters and do sujood to them. but the slander many of these fudge muslims have done against sincere muslims is discouraging and best to cut off the cancerous disease these muslims carry in this forum before it spreads. there knowledge lacks ilm. our duas is that allah swt guides them and us, amin.


                        there are many good non muslims and sincere muslims on this board who are plentiful enough for good discussions to carry on, chocolate muslims should not be given a voice.

                        would you give voice to someone who openly calls for allah swt book to be neglected? no.

                        would you give voice to someone who insults the sincere mujahideen of islam? no.

                        would you give voice to the disillusioned modernists who twist islam? no.


                        we as muslims do not cater for those who call to change the deen of allah swt after it has been perfected. ask questions, but to continually call for its change when we know its perfect ,and you have been shown, then its bye bye.

                        hold tight to the rope of allah and be not divided, i dont wish ill on any of these sold out muslims either, rather allah swt rahma cloak them so they may see theri errors.
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                        • Faqir has again posted what Seven posted earlier. If anyone would read the conduct and orders of the Prophet, solla allahu alayhi wassalam, one would see there is no need for new ijtehad. The need is to educate Muslim men (and women) concerning what the Messenger of Allah ordered in terms of decent behaviour and restraint. If they go against these plain recommendations they are sinning and Allah will exact revenge on them on behalf of the women abused.

                          They ought to get that in their (the advocaters of wife beating at the drop of the hat out of mere irritation) noggins.
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                          • ok so basically husbands can hit their wives, but how hard? If it leaves marks would that be naughty.

                            A lot of wife beaters never hit women on the face because the evidence would literally be 'written all over her face'. Hit a woman on her body and she can hide the bruises.
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                            • Originally posted by marjan
                              ok so basically husbands can hit their wives, but how hard? If it leaves marks would that be naughty.

                              A lot of wife beaters never hit women on the face because the evidence would literally be 'written all over her face'. Hit a woman on her body and she can hide the bruises.
                              If I remember correctly, thats exactly what part of sevens article said.. don't hit the face.. and don't leave marks..

                              but you can get a beating that really causes pain and still not have marks from it
                              [CENTER][CENTER][B][FONT=Verdana][/FONT][/B][FONT=Verdana][B]My Lord, my trust in all Your purposes is strong, That trust is now my shield; I'm safe, and undeceived.[COLOR=sienna]- Ali bin Husayn al-Habshi[/COLOR][/B]

                              [/FONT][/CENTER]
                              [/CENTER]
                              [CENTER][CENTER][B][COLOR=black][FONT=Verdana]Real forsaking is forgetting the thing forsaken.[/FONT][/COLOR][/B][B][COLOR=sienna][FONT=Verdana]- Shaykh al-Shadhili

                              [/FONT][/COLOR][/B][B][COLOR=black][FONT=Verdana]Live as long as you wish, you shall die. Love whatever you wish, you shall be separated from it. Do whatever you wish, you shall be rewarded for it. [/FONT][/COLOR][/B][B][COLOR=sienna][FONT=Verdana]- Jibreel (as)
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                              [CENTER] [B][I][SIZE=4] ياَ أَبَا اَلزَّهْرَاء وَلَّذِي صَانَكْ- لاَتُخَيِّبْنَا يَا سِيْدِي نَحْنُ ضِيْفَانَكْ[/SIZE]<o></o>[/I][/B]
                              [B]O father of Zahra, for the sake of the One who protected you,
                              Please do not leave us disappointed, O master, we are your guests. [COLOR=Sienna]- Shaykh Ahmad al-Alawi (rh)

                              [/COLOR][/B][I][B][SIZE=4]أَنتَ رَبّي وَ عِلْمُكَ حَسْبِيْ. فَنِعْمَ الرَّبُّ رَبِّي وَ نِعْمَ الحَسْبُ حَسْبِيْ.[COLOR=Sienna]ـ حِزْبُ البَحْر[/COLOR][/SIZE][/B][/I]
                              [/CENTER]

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                              • Originally posted by Ebony
                                If only walking away was as easy as that. If children are involved, its even harder to leave.

                                Also, doesn't the wife need her husband's permission to leave in the 1st place? I think i read tht somewhere. And as if he'd say "of course you can leave" !

                                Ws
                                If someone is being abused I think getting permission to leave is so unfair and cruel. If the women had children she should take them too because usually a man who beats his wife beats his children too.

                                Peace to all....
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