Fusha vs Colloquial Arabic

[~Carpe Diem~]

So, after speaking to many arabs it seems that only a small % of them can even understand Fusha, I might be mistaken but this is what I've understood from my peers and teachers aswell.

Why is the modern form so far from the classical form ?

When studying Fusha in an Arab country it's very hard to separate the two, as you need to know the local langauge to live. How did people manage to get around that ?

[mohakem]

Re: Fusha vs Colloquial Arabic

As far as i know there is 'Fusha' then there is 'MSA' then there is 'Dialect'.

The overwhelming majority of arabs understand MSA (and i would imagine Fusha). They offcourse know their native dialect.

Lots of people seem to say that the arabic dialects are sooo far away from MSA but in fact I have found the dialects to employ many many many MSA words, even if they are pronounced differently. This is true for the Moroccan and Algerian dialects which are supposedly the most 'furthest' dialects away from MSA.

[.Hajar.]

Re: Fusha vs Colloquial Arabic

this is what i have heard too. i think it's because people have become lazier and also, 'aamiya [colloquial] is relatively easier on the tongue..you only really hear fusha among linguists or professionals today..

...How did people manage to get around that ?

what do you mean? native speakers would know the difference. it's only those non-arabs who're not well-versed in arabic who have hard time telling fusha, quranic arabic and 'aamiya apart

[~Carpe Diem~]

Re: Fusha vs Colloquial Arabic

this is what i have heard too. i think it's because people have become lazier and also, 'aamiya [colloquial] is relatively easier on the tongue..you only really hear fusha among linguists or professionals today..



what do you mean? native speakers would know the difference. it's only those non-arabs who're not well-versed in arabic who have hard time telling fusha, quranic arabic and 'aamiya apart

Yes I mean for people who lived in Egypt or Morocco did thye learn the local dialect along with Fusha ?

The Arabs i've tried Fusha with couldn't understand me so well, as well as my friend.

Aamiya is what they speak in Egypt ?

[Hiking]

Re: Fusha vs Colloquial Arabic

^Yes.

I know a few people who have gone abroad and they have come back with mixed results:

A few learn fus-ha AND colloquial - these are the determined ones
Others learn colloquial and find that their fus-ha has been ruined by it

In fact, one of my teachers once mentioned that the latter is quite often the case when it comes to students studying abroad. It all depends on your reason for learning at the end of the day: if you purely want to speak it, then learn colloquial, if you want to be able to read and understand the media side of things, learn MSA, and if you want to understand the Qur'an and hadith, then learn fus-ha.

[.Hajar.]

Re: Fusha vs Colloquial Arabic

Yes I mean for people who lived in Egypt or Morocco did thye learn the local dialect along with Fusha ?

The Arabs i've tried Fusha with couldn't understand me so well, as well as my friend.

Aamiya is what they speak in Egypt ?

i don't know about egypt and morocco, in [most of] the gulf though, they do stress on the importance of learning fusha

i've been told that fusha is hardly spoken on the streets, they do however converse in 'aamiya ['everyday' arabic]

[~Carpe Diem~]

Re: Fusha vs Colloquial Arabic

^Yes.

I know a few people who have gone abroad and they have come back with mixed results:

A few learn fus-ha AND colloquial - these are the determined ones
Others learn colloquial and find that their fus-ha has been ruined by it

In fact, one of my teachers once mentioned that the latter is quite often the case when it comes to students studying abroad. It all depends on your reason for learning at the end of the day: if you purely want to speak it, then learn colloquial, if you want to be able to read and understand the media side of things, learn MSA, and if you want to understand the Qur'an and hadith, then learn fus-ha.

JazakAllahu Khayran, I have to go abroad to Egypt as it's apart of my degree. I already have a good grasp of Fusha along with syntax, so insh'Allah it should be okay.

I hope to learn both as well MSA = modern standard arabic ?

[Hiking]

Re: Fusha vs Colloquial Arabic

Hmmm....I have a few friends studying in Egypt atm, and they don't really like it. They tend to drop-out of the institutes and start learning with a private tutor instead, because they claim that the level of Arabic being taught in the institutes isn't really that high. Allahu a'lam, I can ask them some more about it if you want me to. If it's part of your degree, then either ask them to send you to another country, or set-up your own approved plan with an institute in another country - perhaps Syria might be better (or not, considering what's going on there). Just try for another country, others that people have visited are Syria, Jordan, Kuwait and Qatar. One of my friends who came back speaking colloquial said a few words to me in Egyptian colloquial and it was NOT pretty :p

Yeh, MSA = modern standard.

This program was recommended to me by my teachers a while back: http://www.qu.edu.qa/artssciences/anns/about.php I *think* that that's the one! It's certainly suitable for a degree-level year abroad. Perhaps you could try to get one of the scholarships there :)

[~Carpe Diem~]

Re: Fusha vs Colloquial Arabic

I can't really chose I can go bewteen either Fez or Alexandria, I was actually planning to get a private tutor the second I get there, along with qiraat insh'Allah. I did ask about Syria but they aren't having any of it!


wow mashAllah! i shall apply when it's open next year!!

Have you done a degree in Arabic is the year abroad worth it ?

[al-siddiq]

Re: Fusha vs Colloquial Arabic

Why did this happen?

Because the uthmani khilafah did not make arabic mandatory during their time, and the west made sure to establish institutions in the muslim lands that deviated the muslims from their root language. If you distance muslims from arabic, they get weak in their connection to Qur'an.

[~Carpe Diem~]

Re: Fusha vs Colloquial Arabic

Why did this happen?

Because the uthmani khilafah did not make arabic mandatory during their time, and the west made sure to establish institutions in the muslim lands that deviated the muslims from their root language. If you distance muslims from arabic, they get weak in their connection to Qur'an.

You think so ? Islam is not as Imperial as Western powers, it's beauty is that it doesn't supersede the cultural (when not contradicting the sharia) aspect of a peoples, it compliments it.

[al-siddiq]

Re: Fusha vs Colloquial Arabic

You think so ? Islam is not as Imperial as Western powers, it's beauty is that it doesn't supersede the cultural (when not contradicting the sharia) aspect of a peoples, it compliments it.

But this is a separate topic, I was simply answering why we have been losing our classic arabic and why so many now speak weird dialects of arabic (in some places it's mixed with different languages like in morocco).

[Massilia]

Re: Fusha vs Colloquial Arabic

No one speaks fusha in the streets lol, just because they lived in North Africa doesn't mean they went to school to learn it. You're going to get one guy or two but the rest...
Plus all languages evolve and change overtime, it's normal. Plus in North Africa we can be influenced by Berber dialects too. Fusha is very "elite" language