True Islamic Homeland for American Muslims?

[abu_fulan_fulan]

Re: True Islamic Homeland for American Muslims?

Because it is abnormal to be living in a setting where people are even offering alcohol, or where we have to worry about halal food, or where corporations are oppressing people or worrying about halal jobs. This is not normal.


If we had a khilafah, all these things would be basic things that are taken care of. Just to be clear here though, all the countries today, east or west, are NOT islamic.

as much as the HT wish-list may declare it, it is not so and many times the khalif was corrupt, or incompetant, the khilafah system sets a gold standard to achieve but there will be times it will not be reached on certain areas.

[al-siddiq]

Re: True Islamic Homeland for American Muslims?

as much as the HT wish-list may declare it, it is not so and many times the khalif was corrupt, or incompetant, the khilafah system sets a gold standard to achieve but there will be times it will not be reached on certain areas.

The khalifah himself was corrupt at times yes, but the khilafah system was not. I cannot think of even one incident where the laws were changed to allow interest, khamr, haram business, no jihad fi sabililah, etc.

In addition, the history is not really the point I think, because if we are muslims who care about the deen, we will follow the example of the rasool peace be upon him and the khulafa rashida. If we become ignorant of the deen again, we will only face destruction.

[Juvegirl]

Re: True Islamic Homeland for American Muslims?

As-Salāmu `Alaykum,

I realize many Muslims emigrate to the US from what we as Americans think of as "Muslim" countries, but is there, or will there be, a TRUE "Muslim/Islamic" Homeland for displaced Muslims (particularly American Muslims, native-born) who wish to leave the US and live in an Islamic State?

Looking around the last decade or so, I don't think things are going to get any better here, unless we actually had the right to run a county, or state, etc, under Sharia (not likely), or had our own place. I apologize if my question seems to forward, or perhaps not appropriate in light of what Palestinians are going through (I can see the posts already), but Inshallah, those of us who actually reverted to Islam, chose Islam, and want to escape secularism/Christianity to live as true Muslims, and live in peace with our brothers and sisters--where can we go? Every day I see things in my "own" culture (that I grew up with, here in the US) that makes me literally sick to my stomach...and no one, except for perhaps Mormons (and observant Muslims), cares. There is so much sickness that all I can do is shake my head. We are imploding as a society and I don't want to be here, or play along with it, or have my children exposed to it.

Will there ever be a homeland, or place, or places, that people can actually go to because they are Muslims and want to live amongst other Muslims, without national identity, or past culture, being an issue?

Waleikum as salaam wah rahmatullahi wah barakatu,

I feel you bro. I'm north of the 49th parallel, but there are a lot of Muslims here who share your sentiment. Sometimes I start to cry looking at young girls here. Little do they realise the risk they put themselves in and they have no concept of how good life could be if they lived as I do. And that's just in this life. I really, really fear raising children here, although, as a revert, where exactly should I go?

Dr. Bilal Philips mentioned the idea of creating a semi-segregated society here in the Toronto region (he nicknamed the project 'Emaan Town') which would be run by Islamic ideals, at least. He didn't think we needed to keep non-Muslims out though - he figured they would want to live there due to certain benefits (lower crime, etc.) that he predicted would be the result of the Islamic lifestyle. However, IMO, it would be more difficult to keep certain elements out (like liquor stores) once we let the non-Muslims in.

Nevertheless, as someone pointed out, Dearborn MI has a huge Muslim population. It might not be easy, but if those Muslims who can telecommute, and those who have specific services to offer that could work in another locale, were to move to Dearborn, they could further swell the numbers until they reached the point that they could demand certain rights and priviledges accorded other groups as was point mentioned by another poster (amish et al).

I'm not certain I'd want to become an American, but Dearborn is near the CDN/US border and there are a fair number of Muslims on our side as well. I wonder if something could be done.

[inprogress]

Re: True Islamic Homeland for American Muslims?

There are many Muslim services in Dearborn, like halal food in some of the public schools, many arabic language services, halal meat. But we have to remember that the majority of Muslims in Dearborn are Shia. The largest masjid in America is there, it is a Shia Masjid. Although they have a high percentage of arabs there, they are not all Islamic wherein they have arab night clubs, etc. I haven't traveled to the West cost, but from what is seems to me some of the best places for Muslims in North America is Toronto and Chicago, also of course many in Detroit area. At least in Detroit there is enough abandon space, that is would be pretty easy to come in a take over a whole neighborhood, fix it up, do whatever you want. There are many places that have healthy Muslim communities. Some places that come to mind Madison WI, Atlanta, Tampa, Houston, Portland I am sure there are many more.

[abu_fulan_fulan]

Re: True Islamic Homeland for American Muslims?

The khalifah himself was corrupt at times yes, but the khilafah system was not. I cannot think of even one incident where the laws were changed to allow interest, khamr, haram business, no jihad fi sabililah, etc.

In addition, the history is not really the point I think, because if we are muslims who care about the deen, we will follow the example of the rasool peace be upon him and the khulafa rashida. If we become ignorant of the deen again, we will only face destruction.

the hudud was abolished by the end for the rich who were permitted to pay fines instead, the jizyah was abolished and wine was widespread, especially amongst the elite.

the reason the khalifah was taken from us was its corruption and the corruption of many aspects of the deen, so yes lets work towards it but we need to work towards our own purification as an ummah as well otherwise even if Allaah does allow it to return there is no need to think it will be better than the end period of ottoman rule.

[al-siddiq]

Re: True Islamic Homeland for American Muslims?

the hudud was abolished by the end for the rich who were permitted to pay fines instead, the jizyah was abolished and wine was widespread, especially amongst the elite.

the reason the khalifah was taken from us was its corruption and the corruption of many aspects of the deen, so yes lets work towards it but we need to work towards our own purification as an ummah as well otherwise even if Allaah does allow it to return there is no need to think it will be better than the end period of ottoman rule.

Of course, you cannot simply have good leadership, but there must be strong sentiments of our ummah towards making life for the sake of pleasing Allah 100%.

I can alhamdulilah say though that I have noticed how much people have changed, especially my generation of youth =).

We had a million+ protest in egypt calling for shariah. Another huge one in tunisia. And many other muslim lands, the people do really care about islam and you can see how many muslims make tough decisions in situations for the sake of Allah. Many of course do not have correct knowledge, but alhamdulilah based on what they know I find most muslims try to do what is khayr =).

[abu_fulan_fulan]

Re: True Islamic Homeland for American Muslims?

Of course, you cannot simply have good leadership, but there must be strong sentiments of our ummah towards making life for the sake of pleasing Allah 100%.

I can alhamdulilah say though that I have noticed how much people have changed, especially my generation of youth =).

We had a million+ protest in egypt calling for shariah. Another huge one in tunisia. And many other muslim lands, the people do really care about islam and you can see how many muslims make tough decisions in situations for the sake of Allah. Many of course do not have correct knowledge, but alhamdulilah based on what they know I find most muslims try to do what is khayr =).

there tends to be two extreme positions taken in this argument, one is that tarbiyyah / tabligh will solve everything without the need to address the political system which is helping propegate the munkar in society,

the other is to think we only need change the leaders and the people will change automatically, but its a gradual long slow path in both cases, we need to work on both to achieve success unless the people will just rebel against just rulers in one case or be masacred by unjust rulers in the other.

[ryandeeale]

Re: True Islamic Homeland for American Muslims?

I don't see why people feel the need to move to an Islamic country. I know the difference between right and wrong. I could be hanging out with non-Muslim co-workers and they could offer me a drink to which I politely say "no thanks, I'm a Muslim. No alcohol for me".

I'm confused.

Hanging out with non muslims? How come?

They have offered you alcohol?

You still hang around with them despite them trying to tempt you into sinning?

I hope it wasn't at a pub or bar ...that would be so weird.

[ryandeeale]

Re: True Islamic Homeland for American Muslims?

Regarding Islamic homeland:

You need people of all professions (except obvious haram ones). You need to invite them and establish community of all trade.

You also need people who can farm... obviously.

You would also need to have lots of meetings to confirm the establishment of the Sha'aria and what it entails (you can't just say... we're doing Sha'aria now - even to muslims). You would also need people who were capable or had the means of defending the land (or at least plans for defense of it).

Also, remember the lessons and methods of the Rashidiite Caliphs.

Only thing is with all religions accepted I'm not sure that an atheist could function well in a religious state and so atheism/people of no morals are the main problem.

[Ombres]

Re: True Islamic Homeland for American Muslims?

Only thing is with all religions accepted I'm not sure that an atheist could function well in a religious state and so atheism/people of no morals are the main problem.

oh, we could always put them at work in the salt mines...

[nousername]

Re: True Islamic Homeland for American Muslims?

oh, we could always put them at work in the salt mines...

:rotfl:

[al-siddiq]

Re: True Islamic Homeland for American Muslims?

there tends to be two extreme positions taken in this argument, one is that tarbiyyah / tabligh will solve everything without the need to address the political system which is helping propegate the munkar in society,

the other is to think we only need change the leaders and the people will change automatically, but its a gradual long slow path in both cases, we need to work on both to achieve success unless the people will just rebel against just rulers in one case or be masacred by unjust rulers in the other.

Not only are both approaches extreme, they are not from the sunnah of the prophet peace be upon him. He taught the aqeedah of islam to the sahabah and at the same time addressed the leadership and sought nusrah for the deen of Allah.

We see these examples many times by the prophet peace be upon him throughout his entire life, as you have said =)

[bhaloo911]

Re: True Islamic Homeland for American Muslims?

Will there ever be a homeland, or place, or places, that people can actually go to because they are Muslims and want to live amongst other Muslims, without national identity, or past culture, being an issue?

the sahara.

[abdulsidd]

Re: True Islamic Homeland for American Muslims?

Ironically enough, the largest masjid in North America is in Dearborn, MI and cost $14 million dollars. Strangely enough... it is a Shia masjid.

The actual musallah space in that masjid is very, very small. Just the area under the dome. The rest of the building consists of halls and gym and so on.

There are many Muslim services in Dearborn, like halal food in some of the public schools, many arabic language services, halal meat. But we have to remember that the majority of Muslims in Dearborn are Shia. The largest masjid in America is there, it is a Shia Masjid. Although they have a high percentage of arabs there, they are not all Islamic wherein they have arab night clubs, etc. I haven't traveled to the West cost, but from what is seems to me some of the best places for Muslims in North America is Toronto and Chicago, also of course many in Detroit area. At least in Detroit there is enough abandon space, that is would be pretty easy to come in a take over a whole neighborhood, fix it up, do whatever you want. There are many places that have healthy Muslim communities. Some places that come to mind Madison WI, Atlanta, Tampa, Houston, Portland I am sure there are many more.

Exactly. Hamtramck and the Yemeni areas of Dearborn and Detroit are good as far as Muslim population and practice is concerned. The suburban Muslim communities in the Metro Detroit area are very good. But the Lebanese area of Dearborn is messed up, aside from the awesome food (I have yet to find Middle Eastern food like that in Kuwait).

Toronto is an awesome city. I usually dislike big cities, but I love Toronto. The Muslim community in the GTA is large, but not as concentrated as in Detroit/Dearborn. Chicago is good, but it is not as diverse as the community in the Metro Detroit area. Chicago (and Toronto) is dominated by desis and the Hanafi Madhab, whereas the Metro Detroit area has a good balance between desis, Arabs and others as well as a good balance between the various schools of thought in Islamic Sciences.

I think that California has some very good communities. And Texas as well. But I haven't been to those areas.

New Jersey might be the best place to be as a Muslim in the USA though. Especially the Paterson area. Apparently it is similar to Dearborn, but it doesn't have quite as large a Shia population as Dearborn. It also has strong desi and Turkish communities along with the Arab presence.