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Female genital mutilation,Haram---Female circumcision,Halal

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  • Re: Female genital mutilation,Haram---Female circumcision,Halal

    Originally posted by Asimahm View Post
    What do I think? Well I think you hit the nail on the head with two words "woman" and "choose" neither of which are present in the case of FGM so I do not understand this comparison with cosmetic procedure chosen by adult women and mutilation of a private part of a child.
    no one here advocated any mutilation of a man, woman or child

    i wish you people would READ
    .لا نريد زعيما يخاف البيت الإبيض
    نريد زعيما يخاف الواحد الأحد
    دولة الإسلامية باقية





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    • Re: Female genital mutilation,Haram---Female circumcision,Halal

      Originally posted by Bint Radical View Post
      :jkk: good post!
      I suppose the issue is one of choice.

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      • Re: Female genital mutilation,Haram---Female circumcision,Halal

        Abu:- No need to wish I like to read hence I did :) no one said it was advocated, you may not have read my post, what I said was I didn't understand comparison. Hope that clears it up for you.

        Neuro:- I see it that way definitely :) thanks for reading my post.

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        • Re: Female genital mutilation,Haram---Female circumcision,Halal

          Originally posted by Asimahm View Post
          What do I think? Well I think you hit the nail on the head with two words "woman" and "choose" neither of which are present in the case of FGM so I do not understand this comparison with cosmetic procedure chosen by adult women and mutilation of a private part of a child.
          Thank you for this
          If Allah & his Messenger :saw: ordered us to breathe in a certain way, we would say: "سَمِعْنَا وَأَطَعْنَا We hear & We obey"
          “Whoever turns away from my Sunnah has nothing to do with me.” (al-Bukhaari)

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          • Re: Female genital mutilation,Haram---Female circumcision,Halal

            Originally posted by Asimahm View Post
            What do I think? Well I think you hit the nail on the head with two words "woman" and "choose" neither of which are present in the case of FGM so I do not understand this comparison with cosmetic procedure chosen by adult women and mutilation of a private part of a child.
            The issue of choice which people keep bringing up has no signifcant importance at all when considering the fact that the practice is banned making it llegal. What role does choice have then ? If what is altered or modified is the same regardless of the age why are you only describing it as mutilation when it is performed on a child. Similar procedures are done on young boys yet there is no fuss about it, question is why ? why should parents who choose to circumcise their boys not be given the same right to circumcise their girls ?

            According to the definitions used by WHO, western governments etc any form of modification to the female genitalia except for medical reasons is illegal and considered to be muitilation. How is it that female adults in these countries can have the choice to undergo such procedures (for cosmetic reasons) when the procedures themselves are illegal to begin with except for rare occasions ? Majority of women who undergo these procedures have no valid medical reasons to do so they do choose it for the same reasons as women who choose to have a nose job or a breast augmentation. Again no fuss is made about it but when the same exact procedures are performed on women from other countries for different reasons then suddenly a problem arises & the practice is termed as barbaric.

            If by law it is illegal in your country but you choose to ignore it and condemn it only when it is carried out in other countries , what do you call this ? If you understand this then you would've understood why i made the comparison.

            People are contradicting themselves especially if you are a muslim, how can it be that the consent of the child is of no importance for muslims who choose to circumcise their young infant boys without giving it a second thought but for girls consent suddenly becomes an important issue ?

            The major problem with the entire issue about FGCS & FGM is

            1) It is condemned by westerners when it is done outside their countries & the campaign launched against it are usually discriminatory in nature
            2) It violates the rights of non-westerners religious and cultural sovereignty I mean who gave them the right to decide how other people should live out their lives in their own countries. We don't decide the moral ethics for them , why in the world should they decide it for us ? what gives them the right to do so ?
            Last edited by Guled; 30-08-15, 09:35 AM.
            "O Allah!, Forgive all my sins, great and small, the first and the last,
            those that are apparent and those that are hidden

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            • Re: Female genital mutilation,Haram---Female circumcision,Halal

              This is a very important issue with many sides to it. Firstly, many girls have died due to this surgical operation. Many have also suffered mental trauma. No type of circumsision prevents disease. In my view, many brothers and sisters have a very dark viewpoint regarding this subject. For example, i see how circumsision is advertised for both men and women. Some people have the view that having it done is to prevent disease and etc. However, what they should be thinking is how you catch the disease in the first place. If I walk down the street I won't get HIV, chlymdia, etc. It is through sexual activity - plain and simple (generally speaking from 1 view point).

              Islam prevents... and therefore, marriage is encouraged and faithfulness. For example, i've had someone list the benefits of circumsision to me and i said in a nutshell "Oh, it helps prevent STI's?.. Well, why would i need to have that if i have my wife who i promised to be faithful to and in return she is to me also?" - that's the wrong pitch to give for male circumcision. What we should do is look at STI's and treat them as they are - a disease. Diseases need cures and yes, preventatives... It should derive from a religious need/source and because Allah (SWT) saw that it was good - rather than a health benefit. A health benefit can be persuasive, however, when a male is circumcised he should focus on the word of God, rather than the word of a doctor/health care professional. I think it comes down to intention... if a male is circumcising himself on the basis of STI's and nothing else, then what is he lining himself up for? It's like saying "I can have sex now with minimal risk of STI infection"... No. If you get married and have a faithful relationship - you don't need to concern yourself with the risk of STI's altogether. But that said, i am not saying or suggesting in anyway that STI's are caused by carelessness. We can catch STI's from not having sex - and usually through a period of lack of hygiene - blood, other fluids from another that we have touched or whatever... but that is the reason why we should be as clean as we possibly can - it's a dirty world out there. Yes, it can spread through adultery, it can spread through a marriage too - if one partner doesn't know that they are infected... but that is due to the sin of another. If everyone married, was faithful and etc. then STI's would be wiped from the face of the earth very quickly.

              Now for female circumcision, FGM, whichever you wish to call it. If it is not required or emphasized in Islam - then it is optional. If it isn't required in Islam (I don't know myself) - then I'd stay away from female circumcision altogether. Also, if it is permissible in Islam... then we have to look at "how" these surgery's are performed. Usually, they are performed in a very tragic and traumatizing way... holding down, blood loss, hemorrhage, death, etc. etc. the list goes on... if it is permissible - then we must find a way of doing it more safely, kindly and with the minimal amount of pain as humanly possible.

              But so far i haven't been able to find evidence that it is a requirement and therefore i find no valid reason so far to do it. If the Quran doesn't speak of the practice, then i'd turn the the hadiths... but if the hadiths don't give a clear concise answer... then i'd say that it wasn't permissible... and if it was, then we should ask ourselves what the prophet's (PBUH) attitude would have been towards the practice.

              Salam
              Last edited by mpb394; 30-05-15, 09:43 AM.

              Comment


              • Re: Female genital mutilation,Haram---Female circumcision,Halal

                assalamu alaikum

                as far as I know female circumcision is not required in islam, but male circumcision is carried out for hygiene purposes so that urine does not collect under the foreskin.

                Moses was circumcised and Jesus Christ peace be upon them were both circumcised. Jesus Christ peace be upon him when he was either six months or a year old, I am not sure which, but they were both circumcised.

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                • Re: Female genital mutilation,Haram---Female circumcision,Halal

                  I have often wondered the position on circumsision. I understand the strong recommendation for male, but not for female. Although, if the world thinks that it is acceptable (ref to male circumcision - practiced all around the world) - East to West... then I don't see the logic behind female circumsision. I think the main problem is how a circumsision is performed and when - that is what i think the issue definitely is.

                  Usually men get circumsised as babies - so there is no trauma (psychological) as such and it doesn't take long to heal. Men also get circumsised in later life but most probably out of choice (if they reverted - or even out of medical need). It's done clinically and seen as nothing "that bad at all". "It's life" - attitude.

                  Onto female... well, the stories are far and wide where things are very ovasive, forceful, painful.... Some pass out in pain and just the very general manner that it is done has undoubtedly left some people psychologically damaged - but i believe the problem is the way, the manner and where it is being performed - some not in great conditions.

                  Parents all around the world subject their children to bodily changes - some without even realizing it. For example, ear piercings - many parents don't mind watching someone put a needle through their children's ears. Some parents dont mind paying for their slightly mature child to have a tattoo - and that is thousands of needle punctures intp the epidermis at a rapid rate. A tattoo or a piercing is essentially an operation its own right - it is a form of surgery.

                  I don't who the position on whether female circumcision is mandatory in Islam for women, however, if it isn't then I'd say leave it out if you can. However, if it is mandatory then yes. But if anyone is going to have this type of operation and the end result does have religious significance then I do urge the way it is carried out, the manner, etc. should reflect upon the significance. I'm very on the fence at the moment because i don't know what Islam says about this topic - but if the Quran or the Prophet (pbuh) urged it as a mandatory requirement then i can say all i like, i can say "no no no".... but it isn't about me or what i think, i'm just a man... What God says and his messenger is what matters. I can have all the desires on how the world should be but they don't matter. For example, I LOVE THE SMELL OF BACON... I can't eat it... But hopefully oneday I'll get rewarded a becon sandwich in jannah for abstaining, or something of the equivalent taste/smell. I know many brothers and sisters on here might have their jaw dropped a little by me saying this but can anyone please raise your hand if you've smelt cooked bacon and thought "smells lovely, but i can't have it".

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                  • Re: Female genital mutilation,Haram---Female circumcision,Halal

                    Circumcision is in Islam , it is in the Hadith, it honour for the woman and law for us men my brothers.
                    Muhammad (Peace Be Upon Him) was borned circumcised to show the way to the first muslims !
                    It is Allah (Subhanahu Wa Ta'ala) who decided Muhammad (Peace Be Upon Him) to be born to lead the way.

                    Circumcision is in Islam, it is law !

                    Comment


                    • Re: Female genital mutilation,Haram---Female circumcision,Halal

                      Originally posted by AbuMubarak View Post
                      here we go again

                      just because muslim parents decide to circucize their daughters, does not mean, its genital mutilation

                      genital mutilation is genital mutilation

                      vaginal circumcision is vaginal circumscison
                      Just so I'm clear, what is the difference between the two?

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                      • Re: Female genital mutilation,Haram---Female circumcision,Halal

                        Well said....... well written

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                        • Re: Female genital mutilation,Haram---Female circumcision,Halal

                          bump

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                          • Re: Female genital mutilation,Haram---Female circumcision,Halal

                            i wish i knew the difference between female genital mutilation vs female circumcision. As far as i know islam would never allow anything like this. It's painful to the girls. Why on earth would someone even think of doing that? omg this world is such a messed up place.

                            Comment


                            • Re: Female genital mutilation,Haram---Female circumcision,Halal

                              Originally posted by greenblanket View Post
                              i wish i knew the difference between female genital mutilation vs female circumcision. As far as i know islam would never allow anything like this. It's painful to the girls. Why on earth would someone even think of doing that? omg this world is such a messed up place.
                              Painful and traumatic, another way by whic to oppress women.

                              Victims of FGM are in pain whenever they have intercourse and when they give birth, it's a very despicable practice.

                              I'm assuming that circumcision means trimming the clitoris but why is there a need to do this and how is it an "honour"? Just to reinforce the nonsense that only men should be able to enjoy intimacy.

                              Comment


                              • Re: Female genital mutilation,Haram---Female circumcision,Halal

                                Originally posted by greenblanket View Post
                                i wish i knew the difference between female genital mutilation vs female circumcision. As far as i know islam would never allow anything like this. It's painful to the girls. Why on earth would someone even think of doing that? omg this world is such a messed up place.
                                And male circumcision isn't painful?
                                Secure few moments, everyday, to reflect upon the innumerable blessings of Allah and thank Him for bestowing them upon you.

                                "A person who is blessed with the ability to be grateful, shall never be deprived of barakah and increase in blessings."
                                - Rasulullah (صلی اللہ علیہ وسلم)‎

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